2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumDo you seriously think Clinton can rally a fractured party like Obama did in 2008?
How?
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)song before. Checked out lyrics, interesting thanks!
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Skwmom
(12,685 posts)PatrickforO
(14,576 posts)Too many of us feel disenfranchised by the Third Way.
I want the things Bernie is advocating, and the fact Clinton says we can't have them sounds suspicious. Why? Why can't our tax dollars that we pay in be used for our benefit just once instead of for another forever war? She can't answer that.
NowSam
(1,252 posts)and should be shouted. Why not! ?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)I don't think it would occur to her to try, frankly. Nor would she try to rally a fractured nation, since she and Bill and their buddies in the BFEE are the ones that broke it in the first place.
I expect the economy will tank this year, based on all the reports I've seen. I'm hoping it does it before the conventions.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)mother earth
(6,002 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)daleanime
(17,796 posts)walk away.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)thereismore
(13,326 posts)Bernie knows what this means: republican wins. I don't want to see what happens on DU after that.
cali
(114,904 posts)to the Clintons.
thereismore
(13,326 posts)Nonhlanhla
(2,074 posts)I was an ardent Obama supporter in 2008, and indeed, I developed a deep dislike for Hillary Clinton at the time, which I now recognize as the product of primary season enthusiasm. That dislike continued until the convention, when I saw the grace with which she helped to nominate Obama. In that moment I saw her, really saw, her for the first time. I realized how hard that must have been. She had fought so hard, and had gotten so close, and yet lost. But she stood there in that convention hall and helped nominate Obama. And in the process she helped rally her supporters to his side.
Here is a video:
Since then I have developed a lot of respect for her. There are things I criticize her for. But I've also come to see the complexity of some of her decision that I have disagreed with (e.g. Iraq), her determination, her fighting spirit, and yes, her graciousness under fire.
That is one of the reasons why I support her this time around.
I am sure that if Hillary is the winner of the Democratic contest, as I fully expect her to be, that Bernie will be gracious and that the two together will rally their respective supporters, so that we can fight the GOP and win in November. And in the event that Bernie is the winner, I know that she will do her part to help elect him, although I have no doubt that it will be very painful to her. Because whatever the differences between them, the GOP as it exists today is extremely dangerous to the health and well-being of people, and cannot be allowed to be in charge of both Congress and the White House.
daleanime
(17,796 posts)yes, Bernie would try. But he would have nothing to work with, a man can only carry so much water with his bare hands.
still_one
(92,216 posts)Sanders' supporters have called Hillary every name in the book?
Even within this thread they cannot resist their venom
Good luck with that
thereismore
(13,326 posts)daleanime
(17,796 posts)to make up the difference.
And do you mean names like sexist and racist? Because I can understand how upsetting that would be.
still_one
(92,216 posts)Hillary.
It doesn't take too much effort to see he garbage that is thrown at Hillary from supposed "progressives"
Perhaps spamming the PP or Al Franken Facebook page is the way to go if someone doesn't like an endorsement.
Funny that spamming only seems to come from one direction, because I don't see Hillary supporters spamming websites or Facebook pages of endorsements Bernie gets.
As for your independents, let's see how well that works in the red states
islandmkl
(5,275 posts)the blood-letting here was severe...and Hillary HAD to do what she did once she lost or she wouldn't have a goddam chance at 2016....nothing more, nothing less...the fucking graciousness of politics...
still_one
(92,216 posts)islandmkl
(5,275 posts)you've apparently been here a long time...and let's see how far that gets you...
beyond where you are obviously stuck now...
DanTex
(20,709 posts)are as interested in the future of the nation as Hillary's were in 2008. That remains to be seen, but I think that Bernie will do a great job in supporting her and his supporters will understand what's at stake.
thereismore
(13,326 posts)whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Real liberals are freethinkers and don't play "follow the leader". Most will take a Sanders endorsement of Clinton (if it happens) as an expected courtesy, not a mandate.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)before my party started running lite versions.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)the Dem nominee and Rubio/Trump, then you are part of the problem.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)depending on the candidate.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)mind the loss of social services and rights that a GOP presidency would bring. It's a privilege that not all voters have.
CrispyQ
(36,474 posts)or the first time in many years. I don't think all those votes will translate to HRC if she wins the nom. Old time dems who have voted consistently over the years will support her, but people who joined up this year because of Sanders, will likely stay home like they did before.
I'll hold my nose & vote for her, but I don't think she's the sure thing that dem leadership thinks she is.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)It's not a particularly difficult case to make -- anyone who believes Sanders' ideals and is not just a cult follower of Sanders himself will obviously recognize that Clinton is far superior to the GOP. But maybe you're right, and it's more about the person than the policy.
CrispyQ
(36,474 posts)but I think for new timers it is more about the person. I hope they will consider the person on the GOP side & what life will be like with a repub White House. There is a rabid hate toward HRC on the right & if she's our nom, they will be out in droves to vote against her.
book_worm
(15,951 posts)Jarqui
(10,126 posts)Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)The Clothespin Candidate!
earthside
(6,960 posts)But I would agree with the sentiments of a previous commenter ... if by some disaster she gets the nomination she will totally rally and unite the Repuglican Party.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)Obama was a unique candidate.
LiberalArkie
(15,716 posts)Although a person can vote does not mean there is a democracy. If the parties that have a chance to win are all branches of the oligarchy then what can the vote change.
Downwinder
(12,869 posts)Bjornsdotter
(6,123 posts)...the assumption has been that the people supporting Bernie are Democrats and Independents that will cross over to Hillary if she were to win the nomination. I'm not sure that is accurate.
However, while those of us who are older may see the Supreme Court as an issue that can sway some, my daughter is a millennial and her generation hasn't lived with the discrimination that older women remember.
My daughter has said she will vote for Jill Stein. My husband will not vote for Hillary and has gone so far as to say he would vote for "the boot guy'. Seriously, he would go Stein also.
I just don't know how this will shake out. I think we will have a better idea as we get closer to the GE.
thucythucy
(8,067 posts)I'm supporting Bernie, but if Hillary wins the nomination I'll vote for her.
There's too much at stake for everything I hold dear to allow the Republicans to get anywhere near the oval office. Supreme Court nominations, federal court nominations, the environment, LGBT rights, civil rights, voting rights... The damage to be done by another four or eight years of GOP control of the White House, the House, and Senate would make GW Bush look tame.
And please don't give me the "not a dime's worth of difference" argument. I first heard that one in regards to Nixon/Humphrey, then again Reagan/Carter, then again Bush/Gore. Each time it resulted in a GOP win, and each GOP win lurched the country further to the right.
I have lots of criticisms of the Clintons, but compared to Trump, Cruz, Christie, et. al they fade away.
As to how it can happen, I don't know. Same dynamic works the other way around. Maybe if the two campaigned together for a couple of weeks, or if the loser was allowed to give the keynote at the convention. They're both very smart people with very savvy campaigns, I'm hoping they'll figure out a way before this is over.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)20 years ago, while we were all preoccupied with defending Bill Clinton from the consequences of his little intern adventure, the slimy SOB was giving the store away to the corporations.
The public has wised up and a lot more Americans now see the Clintons for the scam artists they always were.
There is no way for Clinton to regain the trust they have lost.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)Just about sums up how I feel about the Clintons.
sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)Many HRC supporters have a wrong idea about
Bernie supporters, who give him their support
due to his policies.
I am sure that Bernie will try his best to help her,
but his "followers" may not listen to him.
What I am very sure about is that if HRC will
become the nominee, the party will shrink
unbelievably. Right now only 30% of voters.
Subtract about 25% from that.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)And I think whichever one of them wins the nomination will win the presidency. The other choice will be ridiculously bad.
Pisces
(5,599 posts)to make this a contentious battle.