State govts. run primaries. State PARTIES run caucuses--by their OWN rules.

[pnwmom]

Last edited Thu Feb 4, 2016, 06:00 PM - Edit history (5)

Most state election laws don't apply to caucuses; and the only appeal to the results of a state caucus is the party itself -- not the government.

In the state of Washington, the voters passed a referendum establishing primaries. But then the Democratic Party went to court, asserting that only the party could decide how it wanted to assign delegates -- and the court agreed. So in WA people can still vote in the State Primary -- but the results are only a "beauty contest." The real business of assigning delegates is done by the party, through its caucuses.

The messiness of which you have all just seen demonstrated in Iowa.

Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_primary

Types of primaries and caucuses

Franchise in a primary or caucus is governed by rules established by the state party, although the states may impose other regulations.

While most states hold primary elections, a handful of states hold caucuses. Instead of going to a polling place, voters attend local private events run by the political parties, and cast their selections there. The advantage of caucuses is that the state party runs the process directly instead of having the state and local governments run them. The disadvantage is that most election laws do not normally apply to caucuses.


From the WA Secretary of State website:

https://www.sos.wa.gov/elections/2016-Presidential-Primary.aspx#q7

What is the difference between a primary and a caucus?

One of the main differences between a primary election and a caucus is who is running the show. State governments conduct primaries, while state parties are behind caucuses. In both processes, voters are selecting candidates who will move on to the presidential election in November.


How will the political parties use the results of the Presidential Primary?

The political parties retain the authority to decide if they will use the Presidential Primary to allocate delegates to the national nomination conventions. The political parties may also use caucus results, or a combination of primary results and caucus results.

[restorefreedom]

1. holy shit.

now i understand why andy mcguire said no to any audit, instead of sos or some other official.

so the parties keep the caucuses going to keep themselves in power...

wtf is this farce in 2016?

[liberal N proud]

2. Those are the rules the candidates agree to when they run for office

They understand these things going into the primary/caucus events.

Something about rules?

[speaktruthtopower]

3. Question

Would it be illegal for a political party to fabricate or tamper with caucus results "for the good of the party"? How about primary results?

I'm not suggesting that happened in Iowa, just curious about the law.

[pnwmom]

4. My impression is that parties could draw straws if they wanted to. Or flip coins

or do anything else.

In most states people were able to shame their parties into moving to the primary system. I don't know if there's any other recourse, other than people in caucus states getting involved with their party and fighting there to switch to primaries.

[speaktruthtopower]

5. But

once they choose to have a primary, does it have to be above board with accurate results?

[pnwmom]

6. Yes, because primaries are run by the STATE, not the party. As a government function,

they have to follow government laws with regard to transparency, etc.

The problem in WA is that the Dems don't have to use the primary -- as accurate as it may be -- to assign delegates. And delegates are how candidates are officially chosen.

[speaktruthtopower]

8. Same for a caucus?

[pnwmom]

9. No, the party gets to choose how it assigns its delegates, and the party here in WA

(and in IA) have decided to choose delegates in a party-run caucus.

In the majority of states, the parties have decided to rely on a state-run primary system.

[speaktruthtopower]

11. So

(lets forget about Bernie/HRC for a minute) it's theoretically possible that the Iowa Rep. Party fudged its results for Ted Cruz.

[pnwmom]

12. Anything is possible with caucuses, based on my experience. The Dems

I have seen in action appear to be trying hard to do a good job. But it's a crazy set up, especially when the turnout is large. It must be very hard to count those hundreds of moving bodies.

[speaktruthtopower]

13. I thought it was also interesting that

the gap between Hillary and Bernie shrunk throughout the evening, as if they were holding his precincts back.

[pnwmom]

14. I think that was more just the fact that his precincts were the biggest ones,

where the state universities are. I heard that so many registrations were new that people stood outside for more than an hour just waiting to get in.

[speaktruthtopower]

15. The biggest were in Des Moines (I think)

but you have a point about the lines.

He may have won the raw vote.

[firebrand80]

7. It would have to comply with State election law

There would also be basic federal Constitutional protections that would apply

[pnwmom]

10. Not according to the courts in my state. The party gets to assign the delegates

however it wants to. So the caucuses got rid of the smoke filled rooms, but most retained many of the other features that are anti-democratic. For example, there is no principle of one-person-one-vote. We just saw that in Iowa. A delegate in one precinct might be representing 10 people; one in another precinct could represent 50. Or two candidates in a 2 delegate precinct might each get one delegate, even though one got 25% of the vote and the other, 75%. In caucuses, votes in some precincts are worth more than others.

This is why the people in most states fought for and won the right to have primaries -- which have to comply with state election law and basic federal constitutional protections.

ON EDIT:

Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_primary

Types of primaries and caucuses

Franchise in a primary or caucus is governed by rules established by the state party, although the states may impose other regulations.

While most states hold primary elections, a handful of states hold caucuses. Instead of going to a polling place, voters attend local private events run by the political parties, and cast their selections there. The advantage of caucuses is that the state party runs the process directly instead of having the state and local governments run them. The disadvantage is that most election laws do not normally apply to caucuses.