2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHow the National Rifle Association helped get Bernie Sanders elected
How the National Rifle Association helped get Bernie Sanders electedBy David A. Fahrenthold July 19, 2015
BURLINGTON, Vt. A few days before Election Day in 1990, the National Rifle Association sent a letter to its 12,000 members in Vermont, with an urgent message about the race for the states single House seat.
Vote for the socialist, the gun rights group said. Its important.
Bernie Sanders is a more honorable choice for Vermont sportsmen than Peter Smith, wrote Wayne LaPierre, who was and still is a top official at the national NRA, backing Sanders over the Republican incumbent.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-the-nra-helped-put-bernie-sanders-in-congress/2015/07/19/ed1be26c-2bfe-11e5-bd33-395c05608059_story.html
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)That has been posted and debunked dozens of times...
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)nc4bo
(17,651 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Yesterday, Clinton hit Obama for calling Pennsylvanians "bitter," ground on which he fairly ably engaged.
Today, she's onto the other half of his San Francisco remarks, in which he linked economic frustration to clinging to religion and guns (the part he sought to walk back this morning in Muncie, Ind.).
"Sen. Obama's remarks are elitist, and they are out of touch," Clinton said. "The people of faith I know don't 'cling to' religion because they're bitter. ... I also disagree with Sen. Obama's assertion that people in this country 'cling to guns' and have certain attitudes about immigration or trade simply out of frustration. People of all walks of life hunt and they enjoy doing so because it's an important part of their life, not because they are bitter."
http://www.politico.com/blogs/ben-smith/2008/04/hillary-hits-obama-on-faith-guns-007747
But Clinton hasnt always been so forceful in her fight for gun control. As the Post highlights, Clinton has dramatically shifted her tone on gun control since the 2008 campaign. While Clinton touted her husbands record record on gun control (former President Bill Clinton signed into the law an assault weapons ban that has since lapsed) she also heralded personal memories of learning to shoot with her father and defend gun ownership, saying, there is not a contradiction between protecting Second Amendment rights and the effort to reduce crime.
You know, my dad took me out behind the cottage that my grandfather built on a little lake called Lake Winola outside of Scranton and taught me how to shoot when I was a little girl, Clinton said while campaigning ahead of the Indiana primary, where white working class Democrats propelled her to a narrow victory over then-Sen. Barack Obama. You know, some people now continue to teach their children and their grandchildren. Its part of culture. Its part of a way of life. People enjoy hunting and shooting because its an important part of who they are. Not because they are bitter, she continued, in a dig at Obamas remark at a fundraiser that disenfranchised Americans often cling to cultural symbols like guns and religion.
http://www.salon.com/2015/07/10/hillary_clinton_goes_bold_on_gun_safety_but_she_sounded_a_different_note_in_2008/
WAUSAU, WIS. -- At a campaign stop this afternoon, Hillary Clinton's focus was on the economy and health care but some in the crowd had other things on their minds. Clinton was asked to discuss gun control which prompted Clinton to talk about her days holding a rifle in the cold, shallow waters in backwoods Arkansas.
"I've hunted. My father taught me how to hunt. I went duck hunting in Arkansas. I remember standing in that cold water, so cold, at first light. I was with a bunch of my friends, all men. The sun's up, the ducks are flying and they are playing a trick on me. They said, 'we're not going to shoot, you shoot.' They wanted to embarrass me. The pressure was on. So I shot, and I shot a banded duck and they were surprised as I was," Clinton said drawing laughter from the crowd.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/clintons-hunting-history/
Q: Do you support the DC handgun ban?
A: I want to give local communities the authority over determining how to keep their citizens safe. This case youre referring to is before the Supreme Court.
Q: But what do you support?
A: I support sensible regulation that is consistent with the constitutional right to own and bear arms.
Q: Is the DC ban consistent with that right?
A: I think a total ban, with no exceptions under any circumstances, might be found by the court not to be. But DC or anybody else [should be able to] come up with sensible regulations to protect their people.
Q: But do you still favor licensing and registration of handguns?
A: What I favor is what works in NY. We have one set of rules in NYC and a totally different set of rules in the rest of the state. What might work in NYC is certainly not going to work in Montana. So, for the federal government to be having any kind of blanket rules that theyre going to try to impose, I think doesnt make sense.
Source: 2008 Philadelphia primary debate, on eve of PA primary , Apr 16, 2008
http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Hillary_Clinton_Gun_Control.htm
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Got any proof?
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)But keep posting it over and over cuz you are unable to tout your own candidates accomplishments. And you have so little to go on when attacking Sanders.
marble falls
(57,097 posts)cuz, if you do I have bridge you may well be interested in.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Bernie_Sanders_Gun_Control.htm
....However, the Nation and the other reports like it dont shed real light on where Sanders is coming from. They dont explain why he supports some gun controls but not others. Nor do they ask if theres a consistency to Sanders positions and votes over the years? They simply suggest that Bernies position is muddled and makes a good target for Hillary.
Yet there is an explanation. Its consistent and simpler than many pundits think. And its in Bernies own words dating back to the campaign where he was first elected to the U.S. Housein 1990where he was endorsed by the NRA, even after Sanders told them that he would ban assault rifles. That year, Bernie faced Republican incumbent Peter Smith, who beat him by less than 4 percentage points in a three-way race two years before.
In that 1988 race, Bernie told Vermont sportsmen that he backed an assault weapons ban. Smith told the same sportsmens groups that he opposed it, but midway through his first term he changed his mind and co-sponsored an assault rifle baneven bringing an AK-47 to his press conference. That about-face was seen as a betrayal and is the background to a June 1990 debate sponsored by the Vermont Federation of Sportsmens Clubs.
I was at that debate with Smith and three other candidatesas the Sanders campaign press secretaryand recorded it. Bernie spoke at length three times and much of what he said is relevant today, and anticipates his congressional record on gun control ever since. Look at how Bernie describes what being a sportsperson is in a rural state, where he is quick to draw the line with weapons that threaten police and have no legitimate use in huntinghe previously was mayor of Vermonts biggest city, and his record of being very clear with the gun lobby and rural people about where he stands. His approach, despite the Nations characterization, isnt open-minded.
As you can see, Berniewho moved to rural northeastern Vermont in the late 1960shas an appreciation and feeling for where hunting and fishing fit into the lives of lower income rural people. Hes not a hunter or a fisherman. When he grew up in Brooklyn, he was a nerdy jockbeing captivated by ideas and a high school miler who hoped for a track scholarship for college. But like many people who settled in Vermont for generations, he was drawn to its freer and greener pastures and respected its local culture.
I went before the sportsmen of Vermont and said that I have concerns about certain types of assault weapons that have nothing to do with hunting. I believe in hunting. I will not support any legislation that limits the rights of Vermonters or any other hunters to practice what they have enjoyed for decades. I do have concerns about certain types of assault weapons.
That was not the end of his remarks. But it is worth noting that his separating the rights of traditional hunters from the concerns of police chiefs has been a constant thread in many subsequent votes he would take in Congress. Its also noteworthy that Bernie consistently has opposed assault weapons from the late 1980sbefore he was in Congresswhich he reiterated to the moderator.
http://www.salon.com/2015/10/10/what_bernies_gun_control_critics_get_wrong_partner/
Next, the 1990 debate turned to gun control. The moderator, who clearly was a Second Amendment absolutist, went after Bernieto test his mettle after Smiths about-face.
Do you support additional restrictions on firearms? Do you support additional restrictive firearms legislation? he asked. Bernie Sanders, explain yourself, yes or no?
Yes, he replied. Two years ago, I went before the Vermont Sportsmans Federation and was asked exactly the same question. It was a controversial question. I know how they felt on the issue. And that was before the DiConcini Bill. That was before a lot of discussion about the Brady Bill. That was before New Jersey and California passed bills limiting assault weapons.
I went before the sportsmen of Vermont and said that I have concerns about certain types of assault weapons that have nothing to do with hunting. I believe in hunting. I will not support any legislation that limits the rights of Vermonters or any other hunters to practice what they have enjoyed for decades. I do have concerns about certain types of assault weapons.
That was not the end of his remarks. But it is worth noting that his separating the rights of traditional hunters from the concerns of police chiefs has been a constant thread in many subsequent votes he would take in Congress. Its also noteworthy that Bernie consistently has opposed assault weapons from the late 1980sbefore he was in Congresswhich he reiterated to the moderator.
I said that before the election, he continued. The Vermont sportspeople, as is their right, made their endorsement. The endorsed Peter Smith. They endorsed Paul Poirier. I lost that election by about three-and-one-half percentage points, a very close election. Was my failure to get that endorsement pivotal? It might have been. We dont know. Maybe it was. Maybe it wasnt. All I can say is I told the sportspeople of Vermont what I believe before the election and I am going to say it again.
I do believe we need to ban certain types of assault weapons. I have taked to police chiefs. I have talked to the police officers out on the street. I have read some of the literature all over this country. Police chiefs, police officers are concerned about the types of weapons which are ending up in the hands of drug dealers and other criminals and our police oficers are getting outgunned.
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/bernies-gun-control-critics-are-wrong-his-stance-has-been-consistent-decades
WASHINGTON, April 17 Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) today voted for expanded background checks on gun buyers and for a ban on assault weapons but the Senate rejected those central planks of legislation inspired by the shootings of 20 first-grade students and six teachers in Newtown, Conn.
Nobody believes that gun control by itself is going to end the horrors we have seen in Newtown, Conn., Aurora, Colo., Blacksburg, Va., Tucson, Ariz. and other American communities, Sanders said. There is a growing consensus, however, in Vermont and across America that we have got to do as much as we can to end the cold-blooded, mass murders of innocent people. I believe very strongly that we also have got to address the mental health crisis in our country and make certain that help is available for people who may be a danger to themselves and others, Sanders added.
The amendment on expanded background checks needed 60 votes to pass but only 54 senators voted for it. To my mind it makes common sense to keep these weapons out of the hands of people with criminal records or mental health histories, Sanders said.
Under current federal law, background checks are not performed for tens of thousands of sales up to 40 percent of all gun transfers at gun shows or over the Internet. The amendment would have required background checks for all gun sales in commercial settings regardless of whether the seller is a licensed dealer. The compromise proposal would have exempted sales between family, friends, and neighbors.
In a separate roll call, the Senate rejected a proposal to ban assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. That proposal was defeated by a vote of 60 to 40.
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/sanders-votes-for-background-checks-assault-weapons-ban
Bernie Sanders voted for the 1994 crime bill because it included the Violence against Women Act and assault weapons ban:
A spokesman for Sanders said he voted for the bill "because it included the Violence Against Women Act and the ban on certain assault weapons."
Sanders reiterated his opposition to capital punishment in 2015. "I just dont think the state itself, whether its the state government or federal government, should be in the business of killing people," he said on a radio show.
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/sep/02/viral-image/where-do-hillary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders-stand-/
If he's a pro-NRA/pro-gun politician why did the NRA give him a lifetime D- rating?
marble falls
(57,097 posts)but Clinton supporters will continue jawing over painting Bernie as pro-gun the way a jackass looks like he's talking while chewing peanut butter.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)CLINTON: I respect the Second Amendment. I respect the rights of lawful gun owners to own guns, to use their guns, but I also believe that most lawful gun owners whom I have spoken with for many years across our country also want to be sure that we keep those guns out of the wrong hands. And as president, I will work to try to bridge this divide, which I think has been polarizing and, frankly, doesnt reflect the common sense of the American people. We will strike the right balance to protect the constitutional right but to give people the feeling & the reality that they will be protected from guns in the wrong hands. Source: 2008 Philadelphia primary debate, on eve of PA primary , Apr 16, 2008
Q: Do you support the DC handgun ban?
A: I want to give local communities the authority over determining how to keep their citizens safe. This case youre referring to is before the Supreme Court.
Q: But what do you support?
A: I support sensible regulation that is consistent with the constitutional right to own and bear arms.
Q: Is the DC ban consistent with that right?
A: I think a total ban, with no exceptions under any circumstances, might be found by the court not to be. But DC or anybody else [should be able to] come up with sensible regulations to protect their people.
Q: But do you still favor licensing and registration of handguns?
A: What I favor is what works in NY. We have one set of rules in NYC and a totally different set of rules in the rest of the state. What might work in NYC is certainly not going to work in Montana. So, for the federal government to be having any kind of blanket rules that theyre going to try to impose, I think doesnt make sense.
Source: 2008 Philadelphia primary debate, on eve of PA primary , Apr 16, 2008
LexVegas
(6,067 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)Bernie did not solicit the endorsement. He has never taken a cent from the NRA or any gun manufacturer.
Unlike your candidate, he's not a corporate commodity.
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)Or ANY Democratic candidate for that matter.
angrychair
(8,699 posts)He has a 100% from the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence (most recent 2014)
He had a 10% rating from Gun Owners of America (most recent 2013)
He has a 14% with NRA (most recent 2012)
FYI the NRA had him at 25% in 1993-1994...why would they "endorse" someone that did not support their positions? Maybe political? To kill his ability to get elected?? Ask questions.
Before you blindly attack a candidate with "poor judgement" or "lack of progressive values" review how these organizations have rated him
https://votesmart.org/candidate/evaluations/27110/bernie-sanders#.VrN5CkSIbqA
cali
(114,904 posts)Bernie didn't solicit help from them. He never used their endorsement. He's never taken a penny from them or from gun manufacturers.
Here's a little history, dear. Bernie ran in 1988 against Smith and narrowly lost. He got 38% of the vote, Smith got 41 and democrat Paul Poirier got 19%. And Paul is a good guy and was a State Rep, but even then Bernie was very popular. When Bernie beat Smith 2 years later, he won by 16 points. In other words:
BERNIE WOULD HAVE WON WITHOUT THE NRA.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)But we will never know for sure since the NRA was backing Bernie in the election.
LexVegas
(6,067 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)19% voted for the democrat. If Paul hadn't run, Bernie would have won. And you know jackshit about my state, zero
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)that Bernie won by more than a 2/3 majority. Do you REALLY think that he would have won without an endorsement that he never used from the NRA?
Give me a break already!
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)that the creep leader of the NRA told his members to vote for Bernie Sanders!
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)Not on Bernie, but on the creep from the NRA.
Sheesh!
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)I'd like to read that if you have a link.
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)And no I do not have a link, because there is no freakin' link. He never used the endorsement, and never took money from the NRA! Why can't you get that through your skull?
liberal N proud
(60,335 posts)The list of reasons I do not support Sanders.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)the point is that any support the NRA may have shown to Sanders in one campaign long ago and was done simply to beat someone that was on the NRA hit list at the time.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)damn, i thought it was hammer and sickle day.
getting hard to keep up.....
Punkingal
(9,522 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)like on an offsite web forum or something......
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)PotatoChip
(3,186 posts)what kind of favors they did for Vermont Gov. Peter Schumlin who will be campaigning in NH for Hillary?
April Burbank, Free Press Staff Writer 5:52 p.m. EST February 3, 2016
Vermont Gov. Peter Shumlin and former Gov. Madeleine Kunin are expected to campaign again for Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton on Thursday.
The trip comes less than one week before the Feb. 9 primary election in New Hampshire, where most polls show Vermont's independent senator, Bernie Sanders, leading Clinton by double digits.
http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/news/politics/2016/02/03/shumlin-kunin-visit-nh-hillary-clinton/79773332/
Shumlin has an A rating with the NRA.
https://votesmart.org/candidate/evaluations/5276/peter-shumlin/37#.VrNyr1UrLnA
SheenaR
(2,052 posts)You guys love saying "stop using RW talking points" but thoroughly enjoy using them.
You and my friend from Texas are as consistent as it gets when it comes up with digging up old, already debunked arguments
frylock
(34,825 posts)ACTION!
Flying Phoenix
(114 posts)that's been beaten to death. No, NRA did not financially support Bernie or even cared about him. Hence his "D-" rating.
uponit7771
(90,346 posts)... integrity
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Not that Big City authoritarians like Bloomberg and Hillary could understand.