All Third Way democrats tell you they're moderate and progressive.

[JRLeft]

Harold Ford Jr. did the same thing. So did Bill and every other DLC/Third Way candidate.

[daleanime]

1. Of course, they're not paid for their honestly....

they're paid for results. And if they were honest, they wouldn't get any.

[RKP5637]

5. And they carry wheelbarrows of $$$$$$$'s to their banks for their paid performances!!! n/t

[daleanime]

10. You try putting $250,000 in your purse....

just not going to happen.

[JRLeft]

87. She probably has people to carry money around for her.

[stevenleser]

90. I hate to break up this kindergarten comic fest but no one carries cash anymore. nt

[RKP5637]

2. Yep, they change colors all the time trying to eke out the vote.

Their song last time was basically who is more light republican in their march ever rightward.

[UglyGreed]

3. .

[Iggy Knorr]

4. And nobody believes them

[PatrynXX]

52. well almost

Zombies believe whatever she tells them to . if you have an independent streak like me you don't think the same. You ask serious questions before supporting someone blindly. If she can't take the serious questions why is she in it.

[Renew Deal]

6. Do you have links to those statements from Ford and Bill?

Thanks

[jhart3333]

32. Try google

Google is your friend.

[Renew Deal]

34. I did. The statements don't appear to exist.

Now it's your turn.

[JaneyVee]

7. I dont vote for labels. Hillary is supremely qualified.

[jeff47]

8. Which is why you've made so many "Sanders isn't even a Democrat!!!" posts.

Oh wait....

[frylock]

39. They still haven't figured out how the internet works.

[jeff47]

42. Fucking Internet. Making it easy to find history and timestamps. (nt)

[daleanime]

11. No one doubts her talent....

it's what's she wants to do with it that troubles us.

[A Simple Game]

53. Now it's nice to be generous but let's not mistake time on the job for experience or talent. n/t

[Wilms]

12. That has been noted.

To run the government we have...not the one we want.

[RoccoR5955]

16. Supremely Queen Hillary

It has a nice ring to it. Not in the US, but perhaps in a monarchy.

[Ikonoklast]

49. You don't get to be monarch without the support from the robber barons.

Meanwhile, Hillary is meeting with Wall Street investment bankers yet again...

[Doctor_J]

19. I guess we can be glad that Cheney is not running

Even more "supremely qualified" than Hillary, for those who believe that bullshit

[mwooldri]

37. "Hillary is supremely qualified" - needs rephrasing.

I know what you're getting at, and I agree with you in that Hillary is extremely well qualified to fill the position of the President of the United States of America. Personally I think she's overqualified but I'd rather take an overqualified Hillary over any under-qualified Republican candidate.

Sadly, whenever I hear the phrase "supreme" connected with a "leader", the image of the regime that runs the self-described Democratic Peoples' Republic of Korea comes to mind. Only acceptable Supreme leader is Diana Ross.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

41. So is Dick Cheney. n/t

[1StrongBlackMan]

29. Oh my ...

If unions had embraced minorities faster maybe they wouldn't have been gutted so easily. Instead of overstuffed nepotism rejects surfing the couch they might have had foot soldiers when they needed them most.

While the democrats were appealing to minority votes, unions were lobbying democrats to support legislation keeping them out.

Not to mention, in a time of job out-sourcing, strict adherence to seniority rules ... "Hey! It's the only fair way to decide!!!" (never mind, the years that Black folks were being discriminatorily denied employment).

[ljm2002]

38. You make some good points...

...about how we got to where we are, especially the one about unions. The union membership did tend to have more conservative social views, and there was overt racism, and of course during the Vietnam war they were largely pro-war and anti-hippie. Archie Bunker was not a caricature, he really represented a lot of the thinking that was prevalent at the time.

Fast forward to today, where we can see quite clearly that Third Way policies have pulled the Democratic party to the right, especially on economic issues. The party and its candidates at this point are much too dependent on corporate cash nowadays, and their economic policies in particular reflect this. It is really hard not to see this, although many people seem to be willfully blind on this topic.

Going forward, the questions are: (a) - how did we get where we are? (b) - where do we want to go from here? and (c) - what changes should we make now to get there?

While I expect there is broad agreement on (a), it seems to me there is not so much agreement on (b), and even less on (c). Some of us want to make a hard left turn, while others do not see the course we are on as so bad.

[ljm2002]

48. Quibble acknowledged...

...you are probably right about that. The disagreements within our party (and not just our party) run deep, and probably do include the analysis of how we got where we are today.

I would ask, though, whether you disagree that our politicians have by and large been bought? It seems self-evident to me -- and it is one of the few points of common ground that I find with my conservative acquaintances.

I have never considered that Republicans infiltrated our party; rather, I believe our Democratic politicians have been strategically spineless on many economic issues over the years, precisely because they are bought off and don't want to rock the gravy boat. They have also often been lukewarm at best in their support of progressive social issues -- they feared backlash from the religious wing if they supported gay rights, for just one example.

I don't really think it is the progressive wing of the party who are to blame for where we are. Progressives were for civil rights. Progressives were against the Vietnam war. Progressives fought for economic parity.

Anyway thanks for the discussion.

[nyabingi]

54. Because of the DLC/Third Way infestation

of the Democratic Party, none of the Democrats really put up much of a fight to stop Republicans from instituting "right-to-work" laws in many states - these corporate-ass-kissing Democrats stood by and gladly let conservatives help destroy unions in this country. Why would they defend unions when the people they were schmoozing for money didn't like unions either? You're placing blame on the wrong people my friend.

It was not Third Way's intention to convince corporations to take progressive policy moves - that has to be one of the silliest statements I've ever read on the Internet lol! Third Way/DLC was only interested in getting corporate money because they figured if they were being outspent by Republicans, they might as well seek out money from Republican-friendly corporations. These are some of the same corporate entities that brought us ALEC on all of the regressive, right-wing policies they've been pushing around the country.

I guess I can't expect much from someone calling themselves "ProgressiveCentrist".

[nyabingi]

75. As a Democrat (if that's what you really are)

you know that "right-to-work" laws have been a longstanding conservative scheme to undermine the power of unions and collective bargains because they've always believed in the supremacy of the wealthy and the corporations they own. The liberal party in the US (today's Democrats, yesterday's Republicans) have always stood up for the rights of workers and collective bargaining, but the "centrist" Third Way crew tends to side with Republicans and did nothing all these years to stand with unions in their battles to provide a voice to workers. Democrats betrayed one of their most reliable constituencies, again, because of a desire to get their hands on corporate donations.

You don't win elections by alienating your base, and only Democrats have been dumb enough to think that strategy was going to work. Bernie Sanders' campaign proves that with enough popular support from the people, corporate dollars don't make much of a difference.

[nyabingi]

77. The Democrats' shift to the right

wasn't about appealing more to "public opinion" but appealing to corporate campaign dollars.

Democrats are never going to win Republican/conservative votes as long as they call themselves Democrats.

[randome]

13. Yet today, the only ones who use that label are you and yours.

Anyone you don't agree with is labeled 'third way' when no one else thinks in those terms.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]A ton of bricks, a ton of feathers, it's still gonna hurt.[/center][/font][hr]

[Bluenorthwest]

20. I call Ford a DOMAcrat because he eagerly voted for that hateful bill, which Clinton signed into law

I'm very much opposed to the DOMA branch of the Party, as I'm sure you can understand.

[randome]

25. I do understand. 'Hateful' is the right word.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]A ton of bricks, a ton of feathers, it's still gonna hurt.[/center][/font][hr]

[ananda]

14. But theyre not!

That much is clear.

[GoneFishin]

15. Yep. Republicans pretend they care about average Americans too. Once they cross over to the dark

side they'll say whatever it takes to get those lobbyist dollars.

[RoccoR5955]

17. I call them DINOs

Democrats In Name Only.

[AgingAmerican]

18. They are locked in a mental tug-o-war with themselves

And they are losing

[treestar]

21. The purer than thou theme will not win any elections

Nor will you convince anyone to vote for Bernie with it.

[Doctor_J]

24. And Hillarians proclaiming that Senator Wall Street is liberal, despite a lifetime of

conservative votes, won't get people out to vote.

[frylock]

45. I'll get this party started..

USAPATRIOT Act
IWR
Bankruptcy bill
Border fence
Flag protection act

Anyone else care to chime in?

[frylock]

50. Yes, we've established that the Democratic Party embodies a kinder, gentler form of conservatism.

[Ikonoklast]

51. And those votes by Democrats were also wrong.

[Doctor_J]

63. Sorry. Should have read "lifetime of support for conservative causes"

NDAA, IWR, DADT, DOMA, XL Pipeline, Syria, Libya, for-profit healthcare, for-profit prisons, the bankruptcy bill

You can stop me any time

[Doctor_J]

22. No morals

AT least the repukes admit they're right wingers.

[monicaangela]

23. They really do don't they,

and I suppose it's true, finger in wind on any given day and voila! Today I'm a progressive!!! And given the circumstance/situation, I could be a progressive EVERY day.

[amborin]

26. as they do the bidding of their corporate masters

[NorthCarolina]

27. "Progressivism" is for campaign mode only.

Just look at their records of what they have supported; run left, govern right. The truth is in the pudding. Will America be duped yet again? Who knows.

[merrily]

28. They'll say anything to disguise they are center right.

[Betty Karlson]

30. And the Millennials have stopped believeing them. eom

[Dem2]

31. Never heard of a "3rd way" Democrat

Nice of you to make broad-brush statements to drive Democrats apart though.

[ljm2002]

43. Never heard of a 3rd Way Democrat?

Really?

Where ya been?

Google is your friend.

[Dem2]

68. I've heard of them on DU

Nowhere in real life. It's a tag used to beat those whom a snobby "progressive" thinks aren't "pure" enough.

It's hogwash, in other words.

[ljm2002]

69. Ignorance is no excuse.

You clearly do not care enough to find out.

TTFN

[Dem2]

71. I don't give a crap what name-callers are saying

Make arguments about issues, I'm all for it.

Make broad-brush accusations against "those people" and I roll my eyes @ those who can't form actual arguments.

[frylock]

46. Well now you have.

http://www.thirdway.org/

[Dem2]

67. I've been linked to site so many times by the types who use the tag like a kudgel

Nobody gives a flying f*** about that organization and everybody, including you, knows this.

[frylock]

70. Uninformed centrist dems don't give a flying fuck.

Those of us who don't want OUR legislation influenced by corporatists DO give a flying fuck.

[Dem2]

72. Name calling is very mature

Corporatist!!

DLC!!

3rd Way!!!

etc! etc! etc!

Do you realize people just laugh at those who toss out these lame catch-all canards?

It's lame.

[frylock]

73. You don't appear to be very well informed.

You just learned of the existence of the Third Way. That laughter isn't being directed at me.

[Dem2]

74. Yep. I'm an ignoramus.

How to make friends and influence people.

[frylock]

79. Yeah, well, I've been called part of the tea party of the left..

delusional, a denizen of a fantasy world. So that shit cuts both ways, son.

[Dem2]

80. huh

I know of just one person who does that "son" thing.

[frylock]

82. Now you know two.

[Dem2]

83. Nah

You're the same fellow who does it on reddit.

I kid.

[frylock]

84. I'm not on reddit.

You may need to get out more often.

[islandmkl]

36. they moved, and continue to work to move, the Democratic Party rightward...

and then claim to address 'TheLargeCenter®' as if that 'center' is in the middle of the political spectrum...

in football terms, the 'center of the field' has always been the 50-yard-line...and now the PTB/rulesmakers/referees establish one of the 35-yard-lines as the center of the field....depending on who has the ball...

[SoapBox]

44. And then you get screwed over.

It's been a real eye opener to see exactly who is running to Hill's side over the last few months.

At least they are now out in the open and we know exactly who they are and that they stand with the Turd Way Elites.

[stillwaiting]

55. They're trying to limit what's politically possible when they do that.

And, they KNOW what they're doing.

They are not my political allies, and they are not progressive.

[A Simple Game]

56. As a liberal I can live with progressive and can even take some moderate. It must be that

unknown third option that I have issues with.

[stevenleser]

57. Thats the wrong way of looking at it. The right way is, everyone to the left of a certain point

thinks their definition of progressive is the only correct one and excludes everyone else.

That includes progressive Democrats, Greens, Socialists, Communists, etc.

A good number of folks on Socialist and Communist websites think that everyone on DU, you included, are right wing.

[40RatRod]

58. I consider myself as...

...a moderate on some issues, progressive on others and a bleeding heart liberal on others. I do not apologize.
Unlike some on this forum, I will vote for the nominee- whoever. To not do so will put a Trump, Cruz, Rubio or Bush in the White House and the one who gets to nominate our next new SC justices.

[Cheese Sandwich]

62. They do a marketing survey to decide which label to stick on their shit sandwiches

[Lorien]

64. Chomsky: Democrats are now moderate Republicans:

http://trofire.com/2015/09/23/noam-chomsky-dems-are-now-moderate-repugs-republicans-are-now-off-the-spectrum-of-reality/

Hillary's legacy of pushing the party to the right: http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/33869-hillary-clinton-s-ghosts-a-legacy-of-pushing-the-democratic-party-to-the-right

[AgingAmerican]

65. Moderate = conservative

Progressive = Liberal

It's not possible to be both at once.

[mhatrw]

66. Well, they were invented to moderate progressives. nt

[amborin]

81. it's Orwellian doublespeak tactic like Bush's 'Clear Skies'Bill that rolled back emissions controls

[Zorra]

85. The ability to flat out lie without remorse in order to promote oligarchy

is a defining characteristic of Third Way.

[JRLeft]

89. The Turd Way aka the shape shifter way.

[Utopian Leftist]

86. So did Obama . . .

The charade was working oh-so-well until someone pulled back the curtain and so many now see what has really been going on for decades.

[Warren DeMontague]

88. Yeah, depending on which month it is.

Primary or general?

[stillwaiting]

91. It's part of their con on the people.

If they can get what THEY are for to be perceived as progressive, then ANYTHING to the left of that is clearly "far-left" or "looney-left".

They are working against our interests every time they do this.

[JRLeft]

92. They despise progressives, corporatism has made Turd Wayers rich.