Answer for Bernie Supporters, from a Clinton Supporter

[MrWendel]

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/2/3/1479556/-Answer-for-Bernie-Supporters-from-a-Clinton-Supporter

By dhonig

here was yet another utterly disingenuous diary today with a Sanders supporter asking, ‘golly, gee, whiz, why on earth would ANYbody support Hillary Clinton when she’s such a soulless, dishonest, evil, status quo hypocrite — just because she has a VAGINA?!?’ Asked, of course, with a forefinger in a dimple and the other hand shining a halo. “Just asking,” we’re told, “honestly want to know.”

Yeah, right.

And then a funny thing happened. A whole bunch of Clinton supporters answered.

The response? I mean, other than a few Sanders supporters saying, “yeah, we’re honestly and fairly curious, too, why, and I say this with the utmost respect, any thinking person would support such a lying liar from lyinghood?” Crickets. When actually given answers, not a single response. Not a comment, not a recommendation, not a fucking word.

So, for the honest Sanders supporters who really don’t understand why thinking people would think Hillary Clinton has actually done something with her life, here are the responses that were posted.

(Continued in link)

[MADem]

1. I normally don't love stuff from the Orange site, but that was a really good piece. Worth reading.

Loved the comments.

[Recursion]

2. It's just SO damn orange though

Honestly I've never been able to stay on a page long enough to figure out if I'd like to participate in that site, because of the garish look...

[Hortensis]

30. Great hair, Recursion. How about, "Hillary is

very smart, very experienced, and very conversant with domestic and foreign affairs. I supported her for Senate, and she made a great Secretary of State. I am hoping Bernie wins the primary, but if Hillary wins I will vote for her, and I would be proud to have her as president."

This is my favorite of a lot of refreshingly thoughtful and nice posts simply because it's from someone whose first choice is Bernie. I think we need to remember that this is very typical, and that malice is not.

Thank you, MrWendel. I enjoyed reading this.

[uponit7771]

3. Clinton has solid leads with women, non white poor, blacks, Hispanics I believe in part because...

... this right wing crap that eminates from the Sanders camp

[MrMickeysMom]

16. When you speak of where this stuff eminates, be sure to include assholes...

... because I'd call them out wherever they were, regardless of whether it's in the Sanders camp.

Don't include me or anyone I've worked hard with here int he SW PA in that camp because THEY AIN'T among the hard working volunteers here. It's more likely that they are sprinkled EVERYWHERE a woman runs, and that's not anything I'd put up with.

You, OTOH, will take the opportunity to cluster the bullshit phrase, " this right wing crap that eminates from the Sanders camp"... because it makes you feel good.

You should be called out on this, as well.

Let's face it... Life has given us mysogany. As a woman who ran and won local office, I've had enough of it. It emanates from the ass it spewed out of. That's all. It knows EVERY political party, and non-party. It just IS.

I'm sick of it, too. But, I'm more sick of people who direct hate of a whole campaign of hard working men and woman.

PLEASE STOP THIS WRONG ASSOCIATION.

[uponit7771]

31. I'm talking about Sanders himself, not just his associates affliates and proxies. The whole bank

... tie crap is wingerish at best seeing she got 1/25th of her salary from them to speak.

She's not going to sell out to people for 1/25th of her salary... that's stupid

[MrMickeysMom]

50. You're taking about this...

I believe in part because...

... this right wing crap that eminates from the Sanders camp

Those are your own words, spewing untruths about people who have no association with the likes of you. You are completely clueless as to who the Sanders "camp" is, much less who Sanders is, himself.

[JRLeft]

55. Exactly, us Sanders supporters see obvious issues with Hillary like her corporate friendly campaign.

[Sunlei]

4. a very good read, By dhonig- worth reading. Why I wish Sanders & Clinton would Team up.

[Dem2]

5. the excerpt posted here made me chuckle

"“Just asking,” we’re told, “honestly want to know.” "

[betsuni]

6. K&R!

[californiabernin]

7. Just read it.

I get it, thanks.

I'm sure most Clinton supporters respect Sanders as well and understand why intelligent, thoughtful people support him.

[Betty Karlson]

8. None of the answers address the Sanders supporters' concerns:

"Experience" she has, but it is the experience of a war-hawk.

"She can pivot" - but unfortunately, she never does so without a poll or a focus group telling her she absolutely has to.

"I want to hear men saying 'Madam President'" - so would I, but the character on top of the ovaries still matters more to me than the presence of a presidential uterus.

"I am hoping Bernie wins the primary, but if Clinton is nominated I'll vote for her" - hardly an endorsement of Clinton, is it? It's just a promiss to vote for the lesser of two evils if the good were no longer an option.

"She is the most knowledgeable and qualified person to run for the job, she will pick up from Obama" - in other words, she is the most status quo candidate for the job. And the status quo is untenable. Which renders her platform unrealistic.

"I like her toughness, I don't care that she takes corporate money, or that she sat on the board of Wallmart" - others DON'T like her toughness, do mind that she takes corporate money and sat on that board. Poster doesn't explain why all that is all right with him / her. Bernie's supporters can explain in great detail why they disagree.

[JDPriestly]

9. Thank you for your excellent post.

The only answers I have had from Hillary supporters boil down to she is experienced. Well she is, but not as experienced as Bernie. Hillary's experience is a few years in Congress.

Bernie was the mayor of a city -- executive experience -- and a member of Congress since 1992. He has far more experience than Hillary and knows the members of Congress very well.

The other answer I get from Hillary supporters is that she is a woman. I'm a woman. That does not qualify me to be president. It also doesn't mean I would be a good president. In other words, I would love to see a woman become president before I die. But I am chastened by the memory of Maggie Thatcher. I cannot vote for someone just because or primarily because she is a woman. That is not enough.

Hilary's dependency on the money of the oligarchs disqualifies her in my view. We simply cannot afford a president who relies on very wealthy people for her campaign financing. One superpac is not the same as all others. The nurses superpac consists of money from working people -- namely and mostly nurses. I respect them. They earn their money. I have met some of these hardworking Bernie supporters who are nurses. They are mostly but not all women. They know why they support Bernie. I love them. They are an inspiration. Somehow I just don't find much inspiration from the thought of campaign donations from Goldman Sachs or George Soros. I'm sure they are nice people. And George Soros has done a lot to promote democracy in other countries. But his generosity to Hillary is, in my view, misplaced.

Thank God for Bernie Sanders.

He is my hero. He is talking about the damage that these trade agreements do to our economy. He is talking about the unlivably low wages so many Americans are earning today. He is being creative about how to make sure we can continue to have a just society, a society that is economically viable for our citizens. Hillary has no clue as to how hard it is for people today.,

And the Republicans are living in a cocoon of their own imaginations.

Bernie it is. There really isn't any alternative for ordinary, working people.

Thank God for Bernie Sanders.

[MrWendel]

10. Your possibly...

the only one I've ever heard of question Hillary's experience.

[Flying Phoenix]

20. Total experience in politics besides being a first lady.

6 years.

That's it.

Bernie has much political experience than Clinton. Much more.

[H2O Man]

45. Respectfully disagree.

Ms. Clinton has more than 6 years experience in politics. Even if we consider just her post-First Lady time, it includes serving as a NYS Senator, and as Secretary of State.

[Flying Phoenix]

46. Ok. So I forgot her forgettable job as a SoS

where everything she touches is a disaster.

I'll concede where experience lies: She has a total of 10 years experience vs Bernie's 40+ years.

[H2O Man]

47. She worked with

the committee investigating Watergate, etc.

[Flying Phoenix]

48. Are you sure you want to include that in her resume?

I heard that the chairman fired her.

[H2O Man]

49. Yep.

Sure do.

It's important to be accurate.

(I support Bernie Sanders, by the way.)

[Bad Dog]

12. You're chastened by the memory of Thatcher,

Yet you still call her Maggie. Over here only Tories call her that. For the rest of us it's just Thatcher, or The Thatch. You seem to have completely skipped over Clinton's time as Secretary of State. That was experience, and missing out facts because they're at odds with the point you're making doesn't do your argument any good.

[FrenchieCat]

13. I noticed that too!

Her foreign-policy experience just totally ignored, As were her eight years in the White House!

[Flying Phoenix]

22. 8 years in the White House

Does that disqualify her from serving as President of the United States again, or is being First Lady a political experience (I don't think so)

[FrenchieCat]

23. She did the healthcare proposal while there,

As well as worked on some other issues. She wasn't president, but she was there. She didn't just help decorate the Christmas tree.

I hope that answers the question.

[Flying Phoenix]

42. HillaryCare went over like a warmed over butter.

[Bad Dog]

29. Priestley makes a good point about funding.

But her pick and mix approach to evidence pretty much negates her argument. And it's always Thatcher, never Maggie.

[Armymedic88]

27. Her experience as a lawyer at Walmart is fair game then too...

[JDPriestly]

43. Her experience as secretary of state -- pushing H1-B visas which take jobs

from American kids.

Selling lots of our weapons to countries that shouldn't have them?

John Kerry has been an excellent secretary of state. That's all I have to say on that topic.

[Betty Karlson]

18. Bernie has experience being on the right side of history.

Clinton has experience being on the wrong side and / or prevaricating until she can follow everybody else's lead. She is a follower, not a leader.

[Armstead]

24. That nails it -- the right side of history

Bernie has been proven to be correct over and over

[MrWendel]

11. What is...

the purpose of the military? When is it the right time to use one?

[FrenchieCat]

14. You'll have to ask the conscientious objector

currently running to be commander-in-chief

[JDPriestly]

44. FrenchieCat, good to have you back.

Conscientious objectors are the best qualified to know when war is unavoidable.

My dad was a conscientious objector. He was dedicated to peace as are most conscientious objectors. War was not a game to him.

You know why?

It was the Korean War. He was a minister in a small, midwestern parish. It fell to him to comfort and pray with the families of the fallen. He not only did that in the Korean War, but also throughout WWII.

Conscientious objectors are the right people to decide on what wars must and must not be fought.

Conscientious objectors are often better informed about the human costs of war than other people.

On edit, I have to add that in the excitement of war times, we forget that war, when all is said and done, and when the battle is over, is about GRIEF.

War is just about grief. The grief of not being able to resolve conflict without killing. The grief of losing a family member or a friend. The grief of homeless people. The grief of staggering about in rubble. The grief. That's what war is about, and we forget it at our peril.

Anyway, good to have you back FrenchiCat. Maybe you have teen here all along and I just didn't see your posts. Anyway . . . .

Hope you stick around.

[FrenchieCat]

54. Nice to be here....

another primary!

[Warren DeMontague]

17. I think the last fully defensible military action the US engaged in was probably the Korean War.

Had Afghanistan achieved the implied objective, namely actually capturing or eliminating those directly responsible for 9-11, OBL in particular... had we achieved that objective quickly and with focus and single-minded determination; and (this is important) had we not left that country in the deteriorated condition it is in today, perhaps by taking some of the massive amounts of largesse we wasted in Iraq and instead using it to build schools, water treatment facilities, and infrastructure for the people of that long-abused nation, then I think that a decent case could be made for military action (which many of us, such as myself, supported at the time) in that situation as well.

But that's a pretty fucking slim menu for the past 60+ years of US history. Far more frequent have been misbegotten clusterfucks like Vietnam.

So heaven forfend we- as a nation already running a massive deficit, that certainly the anti-Sanders folks around here seem to believe pays too much in taxes as it is- should elect someone to the White House who is REAL FUCKIN' JUDICIOUS about when and where and what circumstances in which to use military force.

It's easy to say "bah, bomb em all", and it gets the '5 minutes of low information' voters every time. What is hard is actually thinking about these things and the consequences 10, 20 years down the road.

We're still paying off the consequences of the last shitty war, which Hillary voted for.

[VulgarPoet]

21. +100.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

52. Well said.

[Betty Karlson]

19. Right now, the military is mostly used to protect 1 % corporate interests.

I think I speak on behalf of the vast majority of Democrats when saying that 2003 was NOT the right time to use it.

If Clinton's definition of the purpose of the military suits you, then tell me the ratio: how many young men and women may die for how much oil revenue / what profit margin?

[Warren DeMontague]

15. Exactly.

I keep waiting for the actual bold policy proposals, and the actual leadership.

Wow, it will be exciting to hear men say Madam President. Okay, sure, if that's all you need from our political system, mmmmm.... that's very nice for you.

The people scraping by on minimum wage, the medical marijuana grannies who still have to worry that an overenthusiastic US attorney like Melinda Haag will decide to take it upon herself to drag them, wheelchair and all, off to prison for smoking a joint, the low income folks for whom the ACA is an improvement but still saddles them with unsustainable premiums and crushing deductibles...

they may actually find achieving nothing more than "men saying madam president" a slightly empty victory for the next 4-8 years.

[elias49]

26. Exactly.

Hillary's gender is irrelevant.

[stevenleser]

37. We don't care what your concerns are. This isnt about you. This is about us and why we think the way

we do.

[Betty Karlson]

39. It's all about you? What a Republican thing to say.

Listen dude, I've been told a few too many times to sit up and play nice. A few too many "your civil rights are ponies and unicorns" and a way too many "your concerns are f*cking retarded".

You want to act like a Republican? Then vote like it: get out of the Democratic primaries. But don't tell me my concerns are not to be cared for.

[stevenleser]

40. This OP is all about us, yes. Its not about you. nt

[Betty Karlson]

41. The OP starts with the words "answer for Bernie supporters"

I pointed out how that isn't an answer to me - the Bernie supporter - and yet somehow my reply is not important because the answer to Bernie supporters is ALL about Clinton supporters?

How tone-deaf and / or self-absorbed do you want to be, sir?

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

53. Exactly! And posted in the General Discussion Primaries Forum.

My goodness, some people are getting mighty irrational around here.

"How dare you post your thoughts on the thoughts I posted here on this public discussion forum!"

[Betty Karlson]

56. Thanks for the moral support. n/t

[pinebox]

25. I hate to say this but....

Well, I'll leave this here.

[gordianot]

28. Yes.

Irony has no limits during primaries.

[PeaceNikki]

32. The implication that is the ONLY reason they support here is brazen and sophomoric

And, quite frankly, sexist.

[pinebox]

33. Ya everything is sexist now apparently

isn't it? I think the tweets speak quite clearly in their OWN words.

[PeaceNikki]

34. No, not everything. But assuming that is their ONLY reason for support sure is.

Just like accusing POC of ONLY voting for BO because he is black is racist.

[pinebox]

35. lol sure

That is some spin you have going on. Hilarious.
It's funny how you think I'm sexist for quoting people for saying "it's time we have a women in the white house" lol Now THAT is some hilarity.

[PeaceNikki]

36. I think it's a sexist position. I don't know you from Jack.

And based on the way that you're acting like a fucking 12 year-old, I am ok with that.

[uponit7771]

38. +1

[merrily]

51. Another poster bashing supporters of Sanders? We don't have enough of those at DU? We have to go to

other boards for this crap? Really?