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Attorney in Texas

(3,373 posts)
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 08:27 PM Feb 2016

Why the Coin Flips Matter (and Why Clinton's Inability to Understand the Significance Echoes 2008)

Perhaps there are some who are confused about the effect on the national delegate count as a result of the Iowa coin flips to decide several tied precincts, but only a very few are confused about that topic.

The Clinton campaign (and some of her supporters) seem to think that the coin flip issue disappears upon the explanation that it did not change the national delegate allocation. The Sanders campaign (and some of his supporters) don't see the issue that way, and Sanders is right.

First, the coin flip is an idea covered by the media and embedded in the public psyche (in part because of the unlikelihood that Clinton would win all of the coin tosses):





The coin toss is not important as effecting the delegate allocation, but the coin toss is very important as a tremendously powerful metaphor for a close election.

Regardless of whether you are a Clinton supporter or a Sanders supporter, you ought to know that it was an historically close caucus that was too close to call when America went to bed on February 1. It was a tiny fraction of one percent that separated the candidates, and in America's mind, that's close enough where a coin toss is an apt metaphor.

Second, while America believes this is an historically close caucus that was too close to call as February 2 crept onto the calendar, Clinton prematurely declared herself the victor when all the main networks were saying the race was too close to call and her morning interviews on February 2 downplayed the closeness of the caucus and skirted around her earlier predictions that Iowa wouldn't be a competitive race.

Clinton's efforts to declare victory before the votes were in and to exaggerate the results highlight one of her key weaknesses as a candidate: her propensity for counter-factual self-aggrandizement the voters' consequent mistrust.

The coin toss is the key metaphor from the Iowa caucus and Clinton's awkward attempt to dispute the extraordinary closeness of this result in a state where Clinton held herself out as inevitable will only reinforce voter distrust as another example of her penchant for self-aggrandizement.

23 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Why the Coin Flips Matter (and Why Clinton's Inability to Understand the Significance Echoes 2008) (Original Post) Attorney in Texas Feb 2016 OP
Ah, bernie won six of seven coin tosses as boston bean Feb 2016 #1
Not true. It's the other way around. This attempt to deceive reeks of Rove. AtomicKitten Feb 2016 #10
You are WRONG. And when you finally realize it I would boston bean Feb 2016 #11
You are dead wrong & being played. AtomicKitten Feb 2016 #13
No I am not wrong. You are WRONG. boston bean Feb 2016 #14
1. It's not a conspiracy theory; it's a metaphor. 2. It's not about delegate allocation; it's about Attorney in Texas Feb 2016 #12
All the sudden it's a metaphor... ok.. boston bean Feb 2016 #15
What do you mean "all of a sudden" it's a metaphor? The OP says it in bold, italics, underline that Attorney in Texas Feb 2016 #16
I get it. Sometimes I'm too anxious to argue what in the bigger scheme is a technicality. AtomicKitten Feb 2016 #22
The old joke was... speaktruthtopower Feb 2016 #2
Kick and rec warrprayer Feb 2016 #3
You're really hoping that the coin-toss/2008 narrative sticks. Sorry, it doesn't. DanTex Feb 2016 #4
See post 1. Its the truth you can look it up. boston bean Feb 2016 #6
Thanks. Yes, I knew about that. I'm pretty sure the OP did too. DanTex Feb 2016 #7
I respectfully disagree MrChuck Feb 2016 #8
.... LexVegas Feb 2016 #5
This message was self-deleted by its author stopbush Feb 2016 #9
That was one of the best rides I have been on. Thanks. Nt NCTraveler Feb 2016 #17
you're welcome Attorney in Texas Feb 2016 #18
Bernie and his followers are pretty smart 1939 Feb 2016 #19
Well? 840high Feb 2016 #21
Agreed- It's about rushing in to claim "victory" rather than let the process check itself left lowrider Feb 2016 #20
Thanks for the links Vote2016 Feb 2016 #23

boston bean

(36,221 posts)
1. Ah, bernie won six of seven coin tosses as
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 08:31 PM
Feb 2016

Officially reported by precincts using the microsoft app.

Time to put this conspiracy to bed, no??

boston bean

(36,221 posts)
11. You are WRONG. And when you finally realize it I would
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 08:57 PM
Feb 2016

appreciate an apology for the insults you are hurling at me.

 

AtomicKitten

(46,585 posts)
13. You are dead wrong & being played.
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 08:59 PM
Feb 2016

The coin tosses are not counted as a tie but added in to the total. There is no record; Clinton software doesn't count. There is a video of a Clinton caucus leader lying her ass off (posted below). There is anecdotal evidence much of which has been captured on video and viewed by many on Reddit. The truth will prevail and I predict the/your denial will continue. Because that's the kind of smokescreen the Clintons are famous for. Her fans are accommodating in that regard. I know because unfortunately I used to do the same thing on their behalf.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1132157

Attorney in Texas

(3,373 posts)
12. 1. It's not a conspiracy theory; it's a metaphor. 2. It's not about delegate allocation; it's about
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 08:58 PM
Feb 2016

self-aggrandizement.

2016's Iowa Democratic caucus will be remembered as coin-toss close just as 2004's Iowa Democratic caucus is remembered for Dean's scream.

The Dean scream was not about delegate allocation; it was a news theme that caught in the public's perception and had an effect going forward. The coin-toss close caucus followed by Clinton's exaggeration of her performance and glossing over of her past claims that Iowa would not be competitive is what will stick in public's perception.

Just as Obama's "you're likable enough" overconfidence after Iowa 2008 gave Clinton a sympathetic rebound in New Hampshire, Clinton's exaggeration of the result this year may also backfire. We'll know soon enough.

Attorney in Texas

(3,373 posts)
16. What do you mean "all of a sudden" it's a metaphor? The OP says it in bold, italics, underline that
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 09:07 PM
Feb 2016

the whole point is that the coin toss is a metaphor.

Did you not even read the OP before responding to it?

 

AtomicKitten

(46,585 posts)
22. I get it. Sometimes I'm too anxious to argue what in the bigger scheme is a technicality.
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 10:05 PM
Feb 2016

The results did reflect a razor thin margin. For me the distraction has been that much of it was caught on video and my inclination is to argue what I've seen with my own two eyes. What will be remembered as you so aptly pointed out is the closeness of the race and Hillary declaring victory with the race virtually tied with 82% counted. Worse, she took to the stage unexpectedly (to her own people) stepping on Ted Cruz's victory speech which is poor election etiquette which in turns reminds voters of what a poor sport she was in 2008 and then what looked like fleeing the state. Not good optics and your analysis is spot on.

k/r

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
4. You're really hoping that the coin-toss/2008 narrative sticks. Sorry, it doesn't.
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 08:34 PM
Feb 2016

Hillary lost in 2008 by a big margin. She won this year. And the coin toss is a reminder of nothing but how silly the conspiratorial "Bernie Bros" are.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
7. Thanks. Yes, I knew about that. I'm pretty sure the OP did too.
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 08:40 PM
Feb 2016

It's pure propaganda at this point. The Bernie fans that know better are still pushing these memes.

MrChuck

(279 posts)
8. I respectfully disagree
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 08:41 PM
Feb 2016

and you and I are beginning to have a tiny history of respectful debate here, if I may be so bold to notice that.

The point isn't that anyone stole any delegates or that the likelihood was uncanny. All of that is crap.

The point, and th OP makes it pretty clearly, is that this win was razor thin. There were more than a dozen coin tosses.

The fact that there were far more of them only reinforces the point that this OP and many others arguing this significance are trying to make. This was far from a slam dunk. The term "victory" is even too grand to describe this "win." If anyone can lay claim to a kind of "victory" it would be the candidate that rose to the level of challenging a heretofore sure-thing and coming to within two tenths of one percent.

Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

1939

(1,683 posts)
19. Bernie and his followers are pretty smart
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 09:32 PM
Feb 2016

By emphasizing the coin tosses, demanding recounts, and questioning the procedures at the caucuses, they are expanding on the meme that Hillary is untrustworthy, sneaky, and will do anything unethical to win.

 

left lowrider

(97 posts)
20. Agreed- It's about rushing in to claim "victory" rather than let the process check itself
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 09:38 PM
Feb 2016

It fits her character. She would be just as happy with a technical win, or a back-room deal. . . . doesn't really care about the voters will.

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