Has Sanders Spoken Any Hard Truths?

[kennetha]

to anybody except the "billionaire class?" Seems as though if you are not a member of the billionaire class, Sanders is asking very little of you except to mobilize and vote. But in terms of shared sacrifice or paying one's fair share or not getting everything you could possibly want, none of that.

Pretty easy way to get people's support. Promise them a lot, ask for nothing difficult in return.

[Romulox]

1. He said he'll raise taxes on everyone to pay for healthcare. You should've heard DU's I-got-miners

howl in protest!

[HassleCat]

6. The hardest truth of all?

If all politicians were as truthful as Sanders, we would hear some interesting statements. "I will invade some small Muslim nation and send your children off to die there." "I will fill my administration with corporate executives and lobbyists." "I will sell you out at the first opportunity."

[asuhornets]

43. You are evading the question in the OP...n/t

[HassleCat]

63. OK then

I guess I didn't make it clear enough. Sanders spoke the most difficult truth of all when he said he would raise taxes. This is the most difficult, hardest, nakedest truth any politician has spoken in a long time. Others do not dare come close to his boldness.

[Lucinda]

2. That he will raise taxes...but that is about it, I think?

[kennetha]

3. While lowering premiums

so no big deal.

[kath]

34. *eliminating* premiums.And deductibles. and copays. Saving the typical family THOUSANDS per year.

[kennetha]

38. right!

my bad!

[winter is coming]

4. A "hard truth" is that the 99% have shouldered almost all of the "sacrifice" for decades.

Pointing that out isn't pandering.

[kennetha]

11. No need to participate

in a community of mutual obligation and sacrifice. Just receive stuff paid for by others who have rigged the game in their favor for all these years. It your due.

What a brave message!

[winter is coming]

15. It's one the 1% have been riding for decades. n/t

[beam me up scottie]

29. "Just receive stuff paid for by others" When are you going to stop using right wing talking points?

College tuition, health care and a living wage are not ponies, rainbows and unicorns.

[PyaarRevolution]

37. It's about opportunity.

To have a better life with a college education and bankroll a nest egg for a house, when you have kids, vacation, etc. It's about the middle class and below getting a chance and their fair share of what has been gained in this economy. Instead, the rich are effectively stealing most of the new wealth being created in this economy and killing it in the process.

[noiretextatique]

55. been there, done that

i am willing to sacrifice a tax write-offs for private jets and yachts, and i will also sacrifice the next salary increase for congress

[peacebird]

5. At least he speaks truths....

[TCJ70]

7. Hard truth depends on who's getting the message...

...for the "billionaire class" everything he says is a hard truth.

[Recursion]

8. Sure, he's said nothing will happen without universal and constant political engagement

That's actually the more appealing part of his campaign, though I don't see that message filtering down to a lot of his supporters.

[mmonk]

9. No, we're extremists, liars, hateful, delusional,

communists, etc. like we've been told ever since Bernie entered the race.

[Avalux]

10. You must think Bernie supporters are stupid and gullible.

If you bothered to listen to him and understand his message and plans, you wouldn't post such inane drivel.

[jmowreader]

46. Oh, we understand his plans...

Total federal revenues as of right now are roughly $3 trillion per year.

Total spending in the US on healthcare is about the same.

To pay for, essentially, doubling federal spending he intends to raise taxes by $1.5 trillion per year - and a large part of that increase is money he can't really count on. But for sake of argument, let's pretend no securities player in the United States can figure out you can trade US stocks through Hong Kong banks.

And we can't forget he's ALSO planning to pay everyone's college tuition. And IIRC he is also promising a government-funded family leave program. There are probably a few other things in there I'm missing, but since he's running a "screw the rich and get free stuff" campaign, that's easy to do. Any savings he gets from telling doctors they have to live on half their current salaries gets eaten up by his other giveaway programs.

If you believe Bernie Sanders can get $3 trillion worth of free stuff out of $1.5 trillion in increased revenue, you also believe you can double your money by folding it in half.

I don't hate the sick. I REALLY fucking hate Republican presidents, though, and if Sanders gets onto the general election ballot we're facing a rout of Mondale proportions.

This was a good protest song...

but it's no campaign platform, regardless of what the Bernie Bros and the college students who've never held a job before believe.

[Warren Stupidity]

12. Those 47%ers, amirite?

[hobbit709]

13. Has Hillary stuck with any position no matter which way the wind blows?

Has she promised anything definite to the 99%?

See, I can ask stupid questions too.

[Kalidurga]

14. mobilize and vote

You must think that's easy for people who have to juggle multiple jobs, children, elderly parents, and struggling with paying for food and housing.

[amborin]

16. Sanders' entire platform contains hard truths-whose recognition--mobilizes support

Sanders isn't giving" free stuff" to anyone.

As far as" shared sacrifice" is concerned-the middle class and ordinary Americans have been sacrificing plenty.

Please read and study.

[kennetha]

18. no more sacrifice for them

eh? All lollipops and roses?

[cali]

31. You are playing a silly, unpleasant game.

passive aggressive attack in a transparent guise. You're way too obvious. Your lollipops and roses shit is the definitive proof.


So lame, Ken.

[kennetha]

17. The point is

There are many, many hard truths that follow from Bernie's proposals. MANY. But he makes it sound as though they will only effect the billionaire class.

He seems honest about what he wants, but pretty oblique about the tradeoffs involved in getting what he wants.

Sort of a demagogue if you ask me.

[JudyM]

21. Please edifying us by listing the specific, concrete facts of which you speak.

Generalities ain't worth $#^.

[highprincipleswork]

19. I don't need someone or anyone telling me what I can't get or have!

So those of you whose reality has become limited by something - propaganda or "hard truths" or whatever, that doesn't mean that the rest of us have to subscribe to that defeatist method of thinking or being, and we might suggest you not act that way either.

Here's a hard truth Bernie says all the time - neither he nor any other politician can do it all by themselves. That includes Hillary, by the way, no matter how many times she uses the word "I" in a sentence. They need us to turn out and continue to take action and show support, especially during the hard struggles and the hard negotiations. He is not claiming this is all about him. It is about US, standing together collectively. That is actually where the strength and force of his movement come from.

So, please, quit harping on "hard truths", especially when we are in the midst of someone who almost never tells "the truth", or whose truth keeps slipping this way or that in whatever way is convenient.

The truth is, we can have the country we want, but we've got to work for it, stand up for it, volunteer, donate, vote for it, and keep on acting even after the election is done.

[kennetha]

23. Here's an example

Sanders thinks economic growth is overrated -- especially growth for growth sake. He's even said in an interview that if his policies cause less growth and less economic dynamism, he's fine with that, if they bring about more economic justice.

Now economic justice -- a fair distribution wealth -- is a really good thing. I fully endorse it.

But economic growth is a good thing too. Without economic growth, economic justice means we all get progressively more miserable.

You'd want some policies that maximize your chances of both growth and justice -- a fair prosperity, as Edward Kennedy use to say.

Sanders seems very willing to trade prosperity for justice. I'm sure he wants prosperity too. We all do. But his policies seem much more designed to promote economic justice and do very, very little to enhance prosperity -- at least if you are being honest about the enormous costs of them and the enormous rearrangement of economic incentives they would introduce.

But he talks as if the only disruptions will be on the billionaire class and his followers mostly buy into it. But it's sheer demagoguery, it seems to me.

He needs to be more honest about what will be gained and what will be lost.

[onecaliberal]

26. spare us the we can't help anyone bullshit. Your reicht wing talking points are old.

[Armstead]

30. What part of common decency do you not understand?

Money is made. A far too large proportion of it goes to people who already have far more than they will ever need, while otehrs cannot afford a roof over their head and other basics. You have peope like the Waltons, who between a few people have over $100 Billion, while ;people who work for them have to go on food stamps.

You have corporations that are immensely successful, byut they either eliminate jobs, ship them overseas to sweatshops, or extort their workers in the US -- and then go into debt for millions -- billions -- to "grow" by swallowing up competitors.

CEOs used to make like about 10 times the pay of their overage employees. Now ithe gap is huge by comparison.

And a similar pattern exists on a less obscene throughout society and the economy.

Maybe less growth and more equitable distribution of the fruits of labor is called for.

[SheilaT]

20. I guess supporting the LGBT community

for several decades doesn't count as a hard truth. Nor consistently opposing illegal wars, while still understanding it's necessary to financially support our soldiers. Or saying that health care should be a right for everyone, not just a privilege. Or pointing out that other countries provide free college for their young people.

No, no hard truths.

[jmowreader]

58. Before you speak, investigate the German educational system

There are four kinds of German high school.

One is the Gymnasium, which is the only one leading directly to college. You have to qualify academically to go to one, and it's even harder to get the Abitur certificate you need to move to university.

There is also Realschule. You have to qualify for it too. When you graduate from Realschule you then have to go to a kind of preparatory school if you want to take Abitur, or you can go to a school that's roughly equivalent to our community colleges from there.

Hochschule is for people planning to go into the trades. Germany still has an apprenticeship system, and you've got to pass the "meisterprufung" or "master's test" after apprenticeship to receive the meisterbrief that'll allow you to work. The test involves making one item (they tell you what you're going to make on the day of the test, so you can't practice) that is called the "meisterstuck," or "masterpiece" (yes, this is where the term comes from). In 2009, a meisterbrief can be used to enter university.

Last is "sonderschule" - special school. It's what Americans call an alternative high school.

In Germany, university is free - but not everyone is allowed to attend.

[SheilaT]

60. I happen to think that's a vastly better system than we have here.

They provide actual vocational training that leads to real jobs.

Our high cost of secondary education makes a bit of a mockery of the notion that everyone can (or even should) go to college.

[ElliotCarver]

61. Here's where America being the richest country in the world comes into play

We can afford to offer a little more diversity of educational experience. (Although I do thank you for providing that backdrop as to how the Gerries do it and the root of 'masterpiece'!

Related perhaps:

Presidents and chancellors of public universities make, on average, hundreds of thousands of dollars more than does POTUS. And just think how CEOs make 300-500x what their employees make, but have an effective tax rate of 17-23% because of the way they structure compensation. Indeed, CEOs often swindle companies into footing portions of their tax bill! These be hard truths.

[workinclasszero]

22. Nope. The day after BS is elected Prez

Money rains from heaven if only you BELIEVE!!! The hardcore fanatic teahaddists in the house are actually going to help Bernie achieve nirvana for all americans!

Oh and it won't cost any non-billionaires a dime!

[zalinda]

27. If you truly believe that

then you haven't listened to him. He rarely says "I will", he says "we will". Hillary likes to use the word "I", but she won't be able to do what she says she is going to do, whatever that is. I really can't listen to her anymore, her "We came, we saw, he died" cackle just grossed me out.

Z

[workinclasszero]

35. OK then how will "we" make all of the sweet Bernie dreams come true?

I would really like to know.

[workinclasszero]

50. Well hey I agree with this 1000%

The worldwide American empire needs to end.

We could shut down two thirds of our overseas bases and save billions maybe trillions a year.

[Armstead]

33. Thank you Ronald Reagan

[workinclasszero]

39. What is Bernies plan to make America do a complete 180

in his first year in office?

Ill wait.

[Armstead]

40. First off might be for Democrats to stop being defeatist, dismissive and....

hyperbolicly snide and insulting about the possibility of change.

That'd be a start.

[workinclasszero]

42. So IOW there is no plan

just a lot of nice sounding BS. Same as it ever was.

I see nothing has changed in Bernies fantasy campaign.

[Armstead]

45. And you prove my point

[workinclasszero]

47. And you prove mine

[Armstead]

49. I could tell you a lot of specifics, but it's a waste of time

Trying to reason with "liberals" whop denigrate liberal proposals and the liberal tradition using tiome-honored conservative frameworks, even in theory, is a waste of time.

At least honest conservatives are honest in their arguments.

[workinclasszero]

53. Sure you could

Dont bother though.

I guess you just have to be a true believer.

[Armstead]

54. I won't bother

I guess you have to be a true unbeliever.

[Broward]

24. His entire campaign is the hard truth.

You're just not listening.

[AtomicKitten]

41. +1

[onecaliberal]

25. What the %^&* are you talking about. You should concentrate on your candidate who doesn't seem

cable of telling one kernel of truth ever.

[Ron Green]

28. Do you think working poor people in this country have not been paying their fair share?

Not sharing sacrifice? You think they've been getting everything they possibly want?

I hear Sanders calling for people to exercise the "citizen" part of their identity, as least as much as the "consumer" part.

If you think he's "promising" things, you're not understanding.

[kennetha]

36. Sanders has to at least double the Federal Government's total revenue..

just to pay for his healthcare plan --- and that's assuming he can get unprecedented cost savings at the same time.

Who do you think is going to pay for that? And that's not even counting all of the other stuff he is promising to pay for.

Now who do you think is going to pay for that? And if he can't get such unprecedented taxation through a congress but still pushes for single payer, how generous do you think it will be?

It's all fairy tales, designed to do what I'm not sure. I'm sure he knows that he's telling a just so story that has no chance of becoming reality. So what the heck is he really up to?

[Armstead]

32. Totally clueless statement about what he is saying and proposing

[azmom]

51. Are you shitting me?

Not paying one's fair share? I've been working and paying taxes since I was 16.

All we are asking for is for a government that works for the middle class and not only the rich.

My god.

[daleanime]

52. Do you think raising the tax rate on the wealthy will be easy?

[comradebillyboy]

56. You have pretty well summed up Bernie's campaign

Break up the banks and the world will be magically transformed into a Utopian paradise. Promise the world with not a word about how to deliver.

[Ken Burch]

57. Bernie has asked less of the poor and of working-class people

because both groups have had nothing BUT sacrifice asked of them since 1981.

It's time somebody ELSE was asked to give things up.

That's a "hard truth".

[jehop61]

59. Ha, Medicare for all b.s.

Bernie is touting Medicare for all. A great idea. But my "entitlement" is costing a whopping $8,000 per year for the two of us. And a needed heart medication was just raised to $71.00 from $25.00 last year. I say he should focus on fixing the Medicare some of us have. How many families can afford an expense like that?

[ljm2002]

62. JFC...

..."in terms of shared sacrifice" or "paying one's fair share" or "not getting everything you could possibly want"...

Do you have any concept of what you are saying? All three of the phrases you put out there, already apply to the billionaire class, and that is what Bernie talks about and that is why his message resonates.

Most of us are already participating in shared sacrifice. Most of us already pay our fair share. Most of us already do not get everything -- or even much of anything -- that we could possibly want.

How tone deaf of you.