Vox: Give a little thought to what a GOP campaign against Bernie Sanders might look like.

[DanTex]

I know, we're not supposed to think about silly things like actually winning the GE, but if anyone wants to break the rules for a second, Vox describes just how enormous the hurdles would be for Sanders to stand up to the GOP attack machine.

I'm not sure I have the requisite killer instinct to fully imagine how the GOP will play a Sanders campaign. But consider just this low-hanging fruit:

--Sanders would be the oldest president ever to take office — older than John McCain, who faced serious questions about this in 2008.
--Sanders is a socialist. "No, no," you explain, "it's democratic socialist, like in Denmark." I'm sure GOP attack ads will take that distinction into careful consideration.
--Sanders explicitly wants to raise taxes, and not only on the rich.
That's just the obvious stuff. And he has barely been hit on any of it so far.

I have no real way of knowing whether Sanders and his advisers appreciate what's coming if he wins the nomination, or whether they have a serious plan to deal with it, something beyond hoping a political revolution will drown it out.

But at least based on my experience, the Bernie legions are not prepared. They seem convinced that the white working class would rally to the flag of democratic socialism. And they are in a state of perpetual umbrage that Sanders isn't receiving the respect he's due, that he's facing even mild attacks from Clinton's camp.

http://www.vox.com/2016/2/3/10903404/gop-campaign-against-sanders

[cali]

1. Hey, at least they wouldn't be able to portray him as a crook.

[kristopher]

3. Reich said it best

Hillary is clearly the most qualified candidate for the system we now have. Bernie is clearly the most qualified to create the system we should have and need.

[Alfresco]

7. Don't be so sure. The truth hasn't stopped them yet.

[hollysmom]

22. actually Icracked up I saw something the other day

apparently he hire some relatives to work on his campaign and he is paying them - so he is "robbing his campaign funds for personal use" - I think the repubs have to check with Rubio to find out more about that.

[DanTex]

8. Who knows what they'll try. Like the article says, they'll dig through his trash, go through legal

records, find every quote in every article ever written about him, etc.

But even if they find nothing, the stuff that you and I already know about is enough to sink him.

[frylock]

81. You talk like Hillary's trained monkey, David Brock, isn't already doing that.

This is the same nonsense Hillarians bleated about when she lost to Obama. If there was dirt, Hillary would be flinging it.

[JRLeft]

89. Ooh boogeyman!

Hillary supporters spend their dreaming about the big bad republicans. They will demonize any opponent.

[Matariki]

33. Or a weathervane

or flip-flopper

[Hortensis]

47. Of COURSE they would. Where have you been

all these elections? Just substitute Bernie's name in any scurrilous attack on Hillary. They'd have him murdering Vince Foster to keep their affair secret before it's over. BTW, just which cartels did Bernie sell drugs for all those early years in Vermont, while he was growing marijuana as a sideline in clearings in the Vermont woods? Why couldn't he hold a steady job in Vermont, and why did he abandon his poor orphan son as a baby? Various people who "fired" him and were shocked at his poor living conditions will be glad to explain it to you.

You loved their endless flood of lies coming at Hillary, but I guarantee you wouldn't love what they'd do to Bernie.

[Gothmog]

59. You do not know the GOP or the Kochs?

I will be be glad to bet you that the Kochs would make that charge against Sanders and I have some idea of some of the incidents that could be used to justify that charge. Negative ads do not have to be 100% true and it is not hard to make a claim against Sanders on a couple of grounds that I have seen discussed on DU and the Oppo researchers for the Kochs will no doubt find other stuff.

[uponit7771]

80. They will portray Sanders as Osama Bin Laden, they did that to a War Hero... what the hell do you

... think they'll do with Sanders wanting to raise taxes on the middle class?

tia

[JaneyVee]

87. Nah, just a draft dodger, socialist, rape essay author who wants to raise your taxes.

Im sure Republicans will go easy on him.

[dogman]

2. Yes, because they won't attack Hillary.

Just like they didn't attack PBO.

[DanTex]

9. Sure they will. They already have, and those attacks are already in her poll numbers.

With Bernie, they've not laid a hand on him.

[dogman]

25. If he wins the Primary it is unlikely to have any different effect.

He will have survived the attacks as you and the Clinton campaign will have trotted them out. IMHO if Bernie can't win neither can Hillary, they will or have said all the same things about her. If we eat our own we will have President Rubio or worse.

[comradebillyboy]

43. The Clinton campaign has handled Bernie with kid gloves.

If you think the Clinton campaign has been mean to Bernie, you are in for a rude awakening when the gloves come off.

[dogman]

50. Mean? I sure never said that.

I said the attacks are being made now, as in wtf is this post? If you watched Chris Matthews today you would know the gloves have come off. Guess what? I'm not bothered at all. This dirt has all been dished here ad nauseum. I've been immunized.

[Gothmog]

60. The Clinton campaign has not been attacking Sanders

The Clinton campaign has been treating Sanders with kid gloves in part to keep party unity. As noted in the article above, the so-called attacks by the Clinton campaign are nothing compared to what the GOP and the Kochs will do not Sanders.

[dogman]

76. Go read in the HRC group.

Everything mentioned in this post has been written about there and much more. These talking points are also out in the mainstream media, Chris Matthews has been on a red baiting rant for days. The campaign itself may not be directly involved, that is what super-pacs can do for you. Do you think Hillary wont be under attack from those same groups? This is why we have a Primary. If you cant sell your ideas to the Party you will not win.

[Goblinmonger]

4. Well

1. Only like 5 will have been older than Clinton.
2. Clinton is a liar and committed significant security breaches will SOS.
3. Any Democrat is going to be accused of wanting to raise taxes.

And that's just the obvious stuff.

[Romulox]

5. Vox=center/right garbage. I won't even click their links. nt

[bkkyosemite]

6. This Sanders wants to raise taxes is getting old.

He wants to have a tax INSTEAD of PREMIUMS paid to INS. CO.'s which would in fact be a savings to households of hundreds if not thousands. I'm so tired of the he wants to raise taxes but they forget to add the next sentence. Out of context.

[DanTex]

10. I'm sure the GOP will make that clear in their attack ads.

[bkkyosemite]

13. I could care less Tex.

[LonePirate]

23. You're not an uncommitted, independent voter, though.

This line of attack will be coming and we need to prepare for it. Those of us who support Bernie's plan know we're exchanging insurance premiums for a tax. That critical piece of info will be obscured, at best from the masses so who knows how they will react.

[Gothmog]

62. The target audience for these negative ads will not care

Raising taxes is a great campaign platform. Just ask President Mondale

[immoderate]

35. The GOP calls all democrats socialists, Obama, Clinton, ALL of them.

Most of them will not vote for Bernie. Some will though.

--imm

[Recursion]

19. Not everyone pays premiums to insurance companies

Everyone will pay a 2.2% payroll levy (or more) and their employer will pay a 6.7% payroll levy.

Note that the 2.2% payroll levy doesn't care if you're at minimum wage: you now make $7.09 rather than $7.25 (though your employer can't pull the 6.7% he's paying out of your paycheck if you're at minimum wage).

If you are working minimum wage and have a subsidized ACA plan that you don't pay premiums on, or pay $25 per month or less for, you will wind up taking home less money under this plan.

[Armstead]

41. Is that ultimately worse than being forced to pay whatever the insurance decide to charge?

[Recursion]

70. That's not how the exchanges work

(I'm taking it as a pretty safe bet that somebody earning minimum wage also has been dumped onto the exchange by their employer; I may be wrong of course.)

In the exchange the insurance company must clear its premiums with either the state or Federal HHS (depending on who runs the marketplace). The Federal government then subsidizes the purchase based on your income (this then got royally fucked by states refusing to expand Medicaid, which was how people slightly above the poverty level were supposed to get insurance; the subsidy formula doesn't make a silver plan affordable for someone who would have received Medicaid had it been expanded). Oddly enough, on DU we saw a lot of kvetching about the cost of bronze plans compared to their stingy benefits; this was intentional -- in many cases a silver plan with the subsidies will wind up being cheaper out of pocket.

[Armstead]

71. You just explained the problem

Does the convoluted nature of all that really make sense?

How about a straight sliding scale (progressive), with the possibility of waivers if necessary? Not all these formulas and "maybe's" and other nonsense.

[Recursion]

72. Sounds like the FQHC program and global budgeting

We had a candidate who made that the center of his health care proposal; he polled 3% and just dropped out.

Does the convoluted nature of all that really make sense?

Yes, in that I can tell you how we got there for every single one of those convolutions. Like Obama said 7 years ago, if we were starting from scratch I'd want something like Sanders's plan. But we aren't.

[Armstead]

73. We can build something new

Even if it has to be side-by side with the existing system initially.

Ya know, if we had actually started laying a roadmap and basic goal, and started working on this step-by-step before it got out of hand, we wouldn't be in this mess.

I know, Republicans. But the Democrats have not had a clear plan to fight for to move it forward toward a social insurance system. Just a lot of fits and starts and convoluted nonsense like Hillarycare, and tweaks to placate insurers and deal with private insurance that added all of this convoluted junk.

[jillan]

11. Well we'll get right back to you David right after the gop wackos have their next hearing on

Benghazzzziiiiiiiii or start calling for her to be in jail because of Hillary's emails.

And then we can talk about social security, public schools, public parks, a country for the people by the people.
]
GET out of your bubble people!! Hillary will be attacked as will Bernie!

[daleanime]

14. And they've have a yuuuge head start....

on Hillary.

[daleanime]

12. If you want a preview....

simply crank up the volume of Hillary's campaign. You have a lovely day.

[DanTex]

15. The article covers that too. The fact that Bernie's campaign and his fans are perpetually outraged

about the tiny amount of criticism he's received during the primary is another indication that they're not ready for what's coming in the general.

[daleanime]

17. We love you too!

[kristopher]

20. GOP lying isn't an excuse for HRC to lie

We know how you'd behave if Bernie went to the gutter for GOP talking points against Hillary in the campaign, don't we?

[7wo7rees]

29. DanTex, it is really getting tiresome.

Would you not agree?

I don't believe this country is ready for the attacks on H.
I believe it will be like nothing any of us have ever witnessed. I believe even you will be buried with the anybody but H campaign to be unleashed.

Just my very humble opinion.

[JudyM]

37. +1. The attacks on her, and the intense voting backlash vs her from Rethugs - is going to be

like continuous blaring sirens in our ears. There just is no comparison.

Socialism just isn't as hot-button as Hillary.

[7wo7rees]

44. I know we aren't prepared for it at all. Here in the Bush

retirement safe zone, it will be relentless, 24/7.
Bernie and socialism would be a walk in the park compared.

[JudyM]

46. Exactly. And the anti-socialism meme is way simpler for most casual voters to see through, as

opposed to all the did-she-or-didn't-she constant $#^ -stirring.

[7wo7rees]

48. Where did DanT go?

And yes JudyM, socialism is way easier, FDR comes to mind along with Eugene Debs, Helen Keller, Upton Sinclair, Major General Smedley Butler, the list is endless..
Howard Zinn
Chalmers Johnson ??

[JudyM]

51. Dunno.

But whoever posted #30 in this thread was just bounced off DU.

[7wo7rees]

54. Ouch. Hate that. :)

[immoderate]

36. Funny that you mention 'perpetual outrage.'

--imm

[7wo7rees]

49. Yes, I would have to agree about the outrage. Relentless! nt

[Gothmog]

63. I have been shocked at the outrage by the Sanders supporters to these so-called attacks

As noted in the article, these so-called attacks are nothing compared to what the GOP and the Kochs will use

[frylock]

82. Shockingly disappointing.

[Gothmog]

86. The sad outrage by Sanders supporters to kids glove treatment of Sanders has been amusing to watch

The GOP and the Kochs will have a ton of material to work with and will be able to savage Sanders to a degree that you will wish that the so-called negative attacks mentioned in the article in the OP were all that Sanders faced

[frylock]

92. Ah, kid gloves. There it is again.

Weird.

[GoneOffShore]

16. Too true!

Perfect!

[HERVEPA]

18. See below

[Todays_Illusion]

21. They used all those arguments against President Obama as well so?

[Gothmog]

65. Did President Obama ever call himself a socialist?

Sanders is very vulnerable to negative ads that practically write themselves. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/10/12/why-bernie-sanders-isnt-going-to-be-president-in-5-words/

The simple political fact is that if Sanders did ever manage to win the Democratic presidential nomination — a long shot but far from a no shot at this point — Republicans would simply clip Sanders's answer to Todd above and put it in a 30-second TV ad. That would, almost certainly, be the end of Sanders's viability in a general election.

Americans might be increasingly aware of the economic inequality in the country and increasingly suspicious of so-called vulture capitalism — all of which has helped fuel Sanders's rise. But we are not electing someone who is an avowed socialist to the nation's top political job. Just ain't happening.

[mmonk]

24. Nothing we haven't seen in the primaries.

In fact, some of the things I've been called have been worse than what any Republican has said or called me.

[SheenaR]

27. Lol

Hillary will be only 8 months younger than Reagan when he took office. So expect the same if Rubio is the nominee.

You are consistent though, I'll give you that

[beam me up scottie]

28. Oh noes! Let's take a moment to worry about what the Republicans are going to do!

Okay, I'm over it.

Next.

[AtomicKitten]

31. As opposed to slamming her for mishandling classified information?

I'll take the honest candidate - Bernie - over that mess any day.

[JohnnyLib2]

32. And another OP hits a nerve--

Thanks, DanTex. K & R

[BigGLiberal]

34. Pushed some buttons with this one!

[Ferd Berfel]

38. NOw give a thought to the apathy that Hillary will produce in Democrats and

the inspiration she will generate in republicans that will come out JUST TO VOTE AGAINST HER.

Now give a little thought to having another status quo, business as usual DINO in the WHite HOuse

[PyaarRevolution]

39. I think you aren't giving credit towards Bernie's ground game and the weakening of MSM vs. Internet

Bernie's ground game will only get better and having an actual volunteer TALK to someone about issues will be more impactful towards immunizing people against those bs Republican soundbites.
There's also the fact that a lot of Bernie supporters and even most Hillary supporters don't entirely trust the MSM to not be full of complete shit. They use the Internet to get the facts on Bernie and it has also served as a buffer and competitor to the smearing the MSM has done towards Bernie.
Right there is a reason why we need to teach those Senior Citizens who are computer illiterate. For minorities, especially AA and Latinos, we need to make sure they get easy access and know how to use a computer. I know those of you on the chat who are older and part of those minority groups DO know how to use a computer and access the internet but many do not. I think some of that accounts for the disparity with Bernie and Hillary among those groups. Can anyone here disagree with me that those groups traditionally have trouble accessing the Internet in one way or the other so their view would be shaped by MSM almost exclusively?
If anyone you know has a problem accessing the Internet, help them in one way or another.

[Gothmog]

68. What ground game-the turnout in Iowa was lower than in 2008

The Sanders ground game was not evident in Iowa. The turnout in Iowa was down from 2008 which means that the so-called revolution is not happening.

[lumberjack_jeff]

40. Right, when the FBI gets done with him.... oh, wait. n/t

[JPnoodleman]

42. They will do the same to Hillary...

What you imagine Hillary isn't going to instantly become the most hardcore communist ever in the history of Communism the minute she gets the nomination?

The GOP is going to call you it no matter what.

[1StrongBlackMan]

45. Funny ... The comments for the defense of Bernie, reflect the exact points ...

of the article.

[NurseJackie]

57. I'm sure they must have "overlooked" that.

[PatrickforO]

52. A state of perpetual umbrage...facing even mild attacks from Clinton's camp...

Clinton's played pretty dirty up til now. As a Bernie supporter, I believe it is up to me, at least in part, to challenge rat fucking attacks line by line. So far we've done pretty well.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

53. He'll get trounced!

[left lowrider]

55. Please notice-

- that Hillary's attcks and her PAC's have only made her lose support. Why do you think that is?

Well, I am sure it is hard to remember what its like to support a candidate with integrity but Sanders is really hard to hurt because he is interested in honesty. If he or his campaign does something wrong he admits it and looks for a correction or better way forward.

He makes it look easy, but it is based in something that Hillary sold a long time ago.

[leftofcool]

56. And yet, she is winning, so I guess she hasn't lost any support at all.

[Gothmog]

58. Great article-Sanders has not been attacked yet in the primary process

I strongly agree with the author's position that the so-called negative attacks against Sander have been mild. Form the article:

I have no interest in litigating any of these attacks here. Like any Democrat elected president in 2016, Sanders wouldn't be able to get much done, but he would block attempts to roll back Obama's accomplishments and have a chance to fill a few Supreme Court vacancies.

When Sanders supporters discuss these attacks, though, they do so in tones of barely contained outrage, as though it is simply disgusting what they have to put up with. Questioning the practical achievability of single-payer health care. Impugning the broad electoral appeal of socialism. Is nothing sacred?

But c'mon. This stuff is patty-cakes compared with the brutalization he would face at the hands of the right in a general election.

His supporters would need to recalibrate their umbrage-o-meters in a serious way.

The attacks that would be levied against Sanders by the Kochs, the RNC candidate and others in a general election contest would make the so-called attacks against Sanders look like patty-cakes. The GOP and Kochs are not known for being nice or honest and as the article notes there are a ton of good topics available for attack. Raising taxes is never a good campaign platform (Just ask President Mondale).

[Odin2005]

61. The Dem candidate is going to be called a Communist no matter who it is.

I'm sick of Dems living in constant fear of crossing the Republican propaganda machine, we could run Joe Lieberman and he would be spun as the second coming of Stalin.

[Katashi_itto]

64. It would Sort of look like what the Hillary Campaign is currently trying to do.

Except Louder.

[Gothmog]

67. The Clinton campaign has been treating Sanders with kid gloves

If you think that the so-called attacks on Sanders are serious, then you will be in shock when the Kochs and the GOP get started. The Clinton campaign has been treating Sanders with kid gloves. The Kochs and the GOP will be able to use a large number of good attacks on Sanders and Sanders will not have the financial resources to compete.

[Katashi_itto]

74. Oh...yeah.....snicker

[Gothmog]

85. You will not like what the GOP and the Kochs will do if Sanders is the nominee

So far the GOP has been supporting Sanders because he is the weaker general election candidate. Heck Karl Rove is running attack ads against Hillary to help Sanders. If Sanders is the nominee, you will be shocked at the attacks that will be levied against Sanders

[Katashi_itto]

90. Gosh..you mean it will be differnt if your oligarch runs?

[frylock]

83. The term kid gloves sure is being used a lot throughout this thread.

It's almost as if a talking point has been issued or something.

[Gothmog]

84. Denial is not just a river in Africa

[frylock]

91. The denial is that Hillary's trained monkey, David Brock, is treating Bernie with kid gloves.

And non-sequitur aside, there has clearly been some talking points issued. There's no denying that.

[Number23]

66. "Sanders supporters do not give the impression that they are cognizant of Sander's vulnerabilities"

We have seen this for months. Pretty much since the first day of his campaign.

That all of the criticism against him is "manufactured" and always by the Hillary campaign. No one could ever apparently have any genuine questions about Sanders, his votes or his policies. That Sanders "can't be attacked on the issues" because he's perfect apparently, and yet when someone does dare to question anything he's done, it's right back to the "manufactured outrage" and "talking points" crap.

It's absolutely ridiculous. Sanders has a MULTITUDE of things he can be attacked on, and the Republicans are all too happy to just fucking make up whatever they think can stick along the way.

[Gothmog]

69. Denial is not just a river in Africa

[Kang Colby]

75. Oh, I can imagine it...and it's not pretty.

Imagine a bald eagle, with a tear running down its face as it considers an inauguration ceremony for Bernie Sanders. "A draft dodging, geriatric socialist, who plans to raise YOUR taxes and weaken our military.." Cut to stock footage of the Paris attacks/ISIS....cut back to Sanders cowering in the corner at the Sanders/BLM event in Seattle from this past summer when he was brushed aside like rubbish...the attack ad ends with.."is this who you want to lead our great Nation?"

Thank God we will never have to see that play out. By fall 2016 we will see the Clinton machine in full effect swinging political haymakers and flattening whichever poor soul gets the Republican nomination.

[jfern]

77. He does much better in general election poll

And Hillary's favorables are terrible. Especially her honest and trustworthy. And it'll only get worse if the e-mail thing gets worse.

[Beacool]

78. Too true........

Meanwhile, the left insurgent candidate, Bernie Sanders, has also had a mostly free ride.

If you say something like this on social media, you'll be beset by furious Sanders supporters. (If there's one thing it's easy to do on social media, it's get yourself beset by furious Sanders supporters.) But it remains true that Sanders has faced very few serious attacks.

[SMC22307]

79. If Sanders can withstand the ruthless Clinton Machine, he'll survive the GOP.

Hillary. Must. Not. Lose. Twice.

Christ, we're not even a week out of Iowa... David Brock is just warmin' up.

[Vote2016]

88. YET ANOTHER article where you only need find/replace GOP with Hillary and it STILL works! Kind of

a pattern here.

[workinclasszero]

93. Are you kidding me?

The Bernie faithful whine and cry like babies over the kid glove treatment he gets from democrats!

I cant imagine what they would say against a full on TV/Hate radio assault on Bernie 24/7!

What will the bros do when their "friends" like Ted Cruz and Fox news turn on him and character assassinate him, all day everyday like they have done to Hillary for decades!

[AgingAmerican]

94. Since when do the Republicans choose the Democratic candidate?

[Betty Karlson]

95. And then give a little thought to how Sanders would campaign against the GOP.

After doing so, I am more confident than ever that Sanders should be at the helm of the Democratic Party in 2016.

[Gothmog]

96. The negatives on Sanders may start to come into play