You know what really fucking gets my goat?

[boston bean]

People upset that Hillary is saying she won the IA caucuses, when she in fact won.

It was close. I'll give everyone that.

But we have Bernie himself not willing to concede and make all sorts of intimations that it might actually be him that won.

Won by what a tenth of a percentage point?

The fucking hypocrisy and double standards just pisses me right the fuck off.

I'm telling you folks, and you can laugh, you can try to make it seem like I'm some fringe feminist who sees sexism around every corner and that I hate men for saying this... but hell fuck all what is the only difference here...

Since when the fuck does a win not mean a win?

[Agschmid]

1. Since now.

[Armstead]

34. All depends on how you look at it

She lost a big "insurmountable" lead and barely eked out a few percentage points.

If she ties in NH, she could call that somewhat of a win, because she is expected to lose.

[1StrongBlackMan]

83. NO ... I suspect if HRC fought to a tie in N.H., she would say ...

"I battled back from a significant deficit to TIE."

[Armstead]

88. Your faith in her consistent honesty is refreshing

Let's see what happens if that hypothetical scenario happens, if Clinton exercises her usual self-restraint, and does not engage in any spin or hyperbolie.

By the way -- Bernie characterized it as a virtual tie.

[1StrongBlackMan]

90. BTW ... We are talking about Bernie supporters. eom.

[Armstead]

92. Well, just like Clinton suppoerters, Bernie supporters are a large collection of individuals

Different personalities, life experiences, perceptions and manners of expression, ya know.

I prefer to think that people do not check their personal identities at the door when they decide to support a candidate.

[1StrongBlackMan]

101. Okay, let me be more specific ...

we are talking about DU Bernie supporters calling a loss, a win, and a loss, a "virtual tie" ... a loss is a loss. Period. Full stop, on to the next contest.

[tex-wyo-dem]

131. If this were the GE, a 0.2% difference...

Between two candidates would trigger an auromatic recount in states that have such laws. It's definitely within the statistical margin of error for gathering, counting and reporting voter results in a general election.

I'll give you that if you take the results at face value, Hillary won by a razor thin margin. But no amount of spin will convince me that the results of the Democratic Iowa Caucus are anything but a statistical tie.

[ieoeja]

107. Didn't read the OP, I see. She specifically says that Bernie himself is calling it a win. n/t

[treestar]

95. It is interesting that she is seen as "losing an insurmountable lead"

rather than Bernie gaining anything.

[Armstead]

98. You're playing with word salad...Both are different sides of the same coin

[metroins]

2. I agree

[BigGLiberal]

3. Only if bernie wins is a win going to be a win.

Wait until Hillary sweeps the South.

[Roy Ellefson]

46. the South

why is the south so important? They aren't going to vote for the Democratic candidate in the election.

[hack89]

67. Because they hold Democratic primaries perhaps?

Last edited Wed Feb 3, 2016, 11:12 AM - Edit history (1)

And if Bernie does not win the South he will not be the nominee.

[treestar]

97. I've seen that before

the way they pretend there is no Democratic primary in the South and no Democrats, as if they don't know the difference between the GE and the Democratic primaries.

[A Simple Game]

142. Before? Like in 2008 perhaps. n/t

[DanTex]

4. Historic first time Iowa victory for a woman. But it doesn't count.

And the fact that black voters in Iowa tipped the scales for Clinton. Makes no difference. It's all about who 19-24 year olds with Bernie tattoos voted for. That's the real story here.

[riversedge]

27. This tweet that I found fits this.....

Tweet:
@HillaryforNH -->*berns the house down Leaving Iowa-First woman to win Caucus #Hillary2016 #p2

[AtheistCrusader]

108. Who's going to pick all the splinters out of her backside?

[notadmblnd]

133. That fits in with her hawkish attitude.

[restorefreedom]

5. i only have three words in response to this.

florida
michigan
2008

[JudyM]

35. Michigan or Ohio?

[wolfie001]

56. Correct!!! Long lines in Cleveland

Ten hours to vote, 2004. Sickening!

[JudyM]

66. Not to mention the SOS contacting AAs in Cleveland telling them they weren't eligible to vote!

I heard story after story when I was out there doing door to door GOTV for Kerry. "the SOS called and said I couldn't vote because I didn't vote in the last election" or other reasons; clearly the calls were from someone who had personal info on these people. Just kept telling them, yes you are registered and here's where to vote. That was criminal and the SOB SOS (coincidentally Shub's OH campaign chief) was not prosecuted.

[restorefreedom]

65. michigan. i was referring to the dws brouhaha in 2008

when they tried to pull a fast one for hillary.

[JudyM]

72. K then I will add a 4th word to your important list.

[restorefreedom]

79. :) nt

[NurseJackie]

6. I found this online ... it helps to explain how some people react to difficult news.

[Thinkingabout]

7. Plus we knew the delegates was going to be split before the caucus.

Yes Sanders wanted to be the winner in Iowa, fact is he was not whether by one or hundreds, it is and will remain Hillary won Iowa.

[leftynyc]

8. Laugh at it

Sore losers are sore losers. Let them behave like children. It wont matter worth a damn.

[alarimer]

96. It's the winners acting like children

Treating 0.3% like it's some kind of overwhelming victory. It was essentially a coin toss. In some precincts literally.

But she should have won by a much larger margin. Bernie was, at one time, way behind by any count. To make up that difference and nearly win is historic. And it frightens Clinton backers greatly.

[leftynyc]

113. Do feel free to link

me to ANY Hillary supporter on DU pretending it was an overwhelming victory. I'll wait. Your excuse sounds like the Donald - "she lost because she should have won by more". But go ahead and find me that DUer who crowed about an OVERWHELMING (your words) victory.

[LibDemAlways]

122. As was said elsewhere on DU but worth repeating:

The Hillary supporters here all reacted as though she had won the recent Powerball Jackpot -- when at most she won back her buck on a dollar scratcher.

Ultimately the Democratic caucus goers who participated in Iowa split the vote. Half for Hillary, half for Bernie. It was not a blowout for either, and yes, by the slimest of margins, two tenths of a percent, Hillary ended up with an extra couple of delegates.

Both candidates deserve congratulations for their efforts. Time to move on.

[ErisDiscordia]

9. When the results are in contest

The vote is by no means accepted by all parties, due to irregularities documented on video and by live witnesses.

[boston bean]

10. If that were true, which is highly doubtful, Bernie winning by a half percentage point means a win?

I think you are missing the point here, whether it is purposeful or not, I don't know.

[ErisDiscordia]

15. A "dirty" win is nothing to boast about

Especially when one doesn't get away with it, and the result is so puny as to be laughable.

[boston bean]

16. A "dirty" win?? absolute proof of that please... not innuendo, made up shit... provide actual proof

I'm not going to have an argument with you based on some fantasy made up of conspiracies.

There is nothing worthwhile in that.

[mcar]

26. I'd like to see that proof too

Or the post retracted.

[libdem4life]

59. Why should he? Coin tosses...I saw the live video of the refusing to recount. There were others if

you read the threads here, including "faulty software". Dem Leaders/phones not available...bad weather...in Iowa. Imagine that. Oh and .02 coming from dozens of points behind, almost all "polls" showing him behind in double figures.

[riversedge]

64. Sour grapes is the only "evidence' that Sander fans have..

Here, let me illustrate the difference between a tie and a win, okay? #ImWithHer #IAcaucus

[libdem4life]

70. You asked someone to retract their opinion. Disagreement doesn't mean "sour grapes".

And you are not the arbiter of truth...even with the cute photos. There are articles, and posts, and actual things that happened...really, if you were watching or reading. It's NOT a clean win, IMO. Sorry. But, it is a win.

BTW, mine is opinion, as well.

Peace...and may your grapes be ripe.

[Madmiddle]

63. Sadly sounding so typically right wing!

You are just plain sickening. Bernie Sanders was ripped off by Hillary supporters. If you're okay with that, than you need to follow the real right wing bigot, Donald Trump and stop acting like a Democrat!!! Oh yeah and I'm sure by the weakness of your argument, you will have me kicked out of this thread. T o that end i say thank you very much.

[kristopher]

147. The only thing happening is Sander's wants to verify the integrity of the process.

If that upsets you, that's too fucking bad.

[Geronimoe]

109. According to your argument

a win is a win whether it is due to a fraction of a percent or 6 coin tosses.

[Indepatriot]

11. If "hypocrisy and double standards just piss me right the fuck off"

You must be enraged at the Clinton Campaign each and every day, for that is their stock and trade.

[betsuni]

12. K&R

[Wilms]

13. What really fucking doesn't get your goat?

Seriously.

[Human101948]

37. Hey! Quit fucking my goat! He's getting upset!

I think we should have a moratorium on "fucking" in subject lines.

[Wilms]

48. I almost left it out.

But I was paraphrasing the OP.

[Human101948]

50. Understood...

I was referring back to that as well.

[stonecutter357]

14. it's the every kid gets a trophy mentality.

[lostnfound]

17. What really gets my goat is disproportionate attention Trump taking 2nd vs Bernie essentially tied

When's the last time we had a people-funded candidate without big-money donors behind them doing so well in an election against a well organized and well funded politician?

They are talking on and on about Trump and what it means that he came within a few thousand votes in Iowa without having had much spending in Iowa, launching his celebrity campaign. To a lot of us, what's really novel about Bernie is the fact that he is getting small dollar donations and launching a viable campaign.

Naturally, all that any of us care about is that every Americans vote gets counted. Because we are Americans, and to be American is to believe in fairness. To the voters, that is. Who cares about the candidates?

[boston bean]

18. I thought I was discussing fairness? What makes you think I'm not?

[beachbum bob]

19. would sanders be accomdating to Clinton if the roles were reversed?

we his supporters be saying and doing the same thing clinton supporters be doing right now?? Yep...the thin skin of bernie and his supporters is pretty thin...I was banned 6 months ago from posting in the Bernie forum because I questioned his electability...that is the thin skin nature of those folks...like a bunch kids throwing tantrums...certainly don't act like adults....and I am afraid at the end of the day...we live in an adult world

[randome]

21. Would Sanders supporters be accommodating to Clinton supporters if the roles were reversed?

Not a chance.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[Armstead]

36. Maybe your condescending attitude brings out the worst in people

Anyone who claims to be the "adult" indicates a smugness that is not justified

[Dustlawyer]

93. Do you claim that the Hillary group doesn't do the same thing?

They ban people over nothing from the Hillary group. There are good and bad people in both groups, so complaining it's just Bernie supporters is hypocritical.

Same with the close win in Iowa. If the positions were reversed, I would expect the Hillary campaign to question the results. I wouldn't have a problem with that because it was so microscopically close.

[jeff47]

100. You want to talk bans? I was banned from the Clinton group in 2012

for saying she might not win the 2016 election. Might. In 2012.

[beachbum bob]

144. this aint 2012...and I thought Bernie and his supporters were grownups...proven they are not

I see the whinning all over the forums...and the fact they can handle criticisms at any level...

[jeff47]

145. Yeah, it isn't. You'd think 4 years before the election, "might not win" would not be objectionable

to grown-ups.

[Vinca]

20. If Iowa election officials would clear up whatever confusion the Sanders campaign has,

he probably would concede. Apparently his staffers were tracking the same information the caucus workers were, running it through the same calculations, and in a couple of cases coming up with different results. If faulty results were transmitted to the election headquarters in Iowa, it's a bit undemocratic not to let anyone know. If there is no "there there," it shouldn't be a big deal to give the requested information to the Sanders campaign. In the future, I wish Democrats would use a paper ballot rather than the type of herding caucus that seems to take place. This is one case where I can say with certainty that Republicans have it right and Democrats don't.

[cascadiance]

22. Congratulations in being just as smug as Romney was when he was declared winner in Iowa...

... last election and later was found NOT to have won when the Republican race was close with Santorum.

[Codeine]

23. Forget it, Jake -- it's Bernietown. nt

[mcar]

24. If Sanders had won by the same margin

The Sanders supporters on this site would be screaming about the win from the rooftops. But whatever Hillary accomplishes is never good enough, apparently.

[TwilightGardener]

60. He wasn't the favorite to win. He was the underdog. It would have been a massive upset.

The fact that it was thisclose is kind of an upset in its own right.

[AtheistCrusader]

111. Search for "Presumptive Nominee" and "Hillary" and work your way back through a year of news

articles. Then come back and tell us that the two candidates within less than one percentage point isn't a MUCH bigger deal for one candidate, than the other.

[BlueMTexpat]

153. And it never will be for some. eom

[Kentonio]

25. You know what really gets MY goat?

Fake outrage.

[riversedge]

28. Why do you demean a poster when he laid out his reasons well. ?

Tweet:
@HillaryforNH -->*berns the house down Leaving Iowa-First woman to win Caucus #Hillary2016 #p2

[Kentonio]

29. Well..

Firstly anyone who tries to turn this into a sexism issue (as the op did) deserves to be laughed at. Secondly, the op themselves gave us permission to laugh if we wanted. I merely took them up on that offer.

[Hiraeth]

33. who is that woman? NOT HILLARY.

[oasis]

47. C'mon now you know.

[Armstead]

39. When any perceived response is branded as sexist, that's a sorry state of affairs

I disagree with the OP's characterization, but that's okay. That's politics.

But to equate that with sexism? Total nonsense. Things like that come up all the time, regardless of which candidate may or may not be whatever gender.

It's a reverse form of sexism to say that any criticism or "characterization" of an election result requires the fainting couch because a woman candidate happens to be involved.

[deutsey]

84. Give the governor a "harumph"!

[CBGLuthier]

30. She made her speech a full twelve hours early. Poor form.

She strutted out on stage and claimed a victory that had NOT been decided. That is what we are fucking upset about.

[Hiraeth]

31. she won. you happy now?

[Nyan]

77. by 0.2 point, yes.

"She won by 0.2 point"
I would say that to make this H supporter feel better, because it sounds so good.

[Hiraeth]

78. it does have a wonderful ring to it, doesn't it. Slimmest of margins has a nice ring too.

Should make them feel lighter like they lost weight, even

[Armstead]

32. Context is everything -- If an equally close tie/loss in NH, Cliton would be the winner...

Technically she won. Whoop de fucking do. She stemmed the bleeding is all she did.

Hardly a bragging rights victory. More an embarrassment that she basically tied someone who had been considered 30 or more points behind a couple of months ago.

And context does matter. Since the conventional wisdom is that Bernie will win New Hampshire by a decent margin, if Clinton were to lose by a percentage point, that would be a victory for her.

[Live and Learn]

38. The fact is, she claimed it before all the votes had even been calculated.

In fact, it is so close that there is really no way to know who won for sure due to the fact that errors are always made and they have no good way to recount.

[boston bean]

40. When was the last time the Democratic Party in IA had their caucus results called into question

for delegate allocation for the presidency? Is there a history of them being so wrong all the time?

We know who won.

Some people don't want to admit it, and call it a tie... but then fight like hell to try and make the Party look corrupted, so Bernie can call a win.

It's laughable.

[Live and Learn]

42. When was the last time it was this close? Duh. nt

[boston bean]

44. So, it was a tie? No one won...

So, both Hillary and Bernie should concede, even though a winner was declared?

[riversedge]

43. Both camps have their own apps to follow the vote counts and the awarding of

delegates. Both camps. Hillary's camp has good statisticians--they felt confident they had won based on the delegate count. This hs been explained in many articles since the caucus. Please read them and educate yourself.

[Live and Learn]

49. Their apps count coin tosses and mistakes? nt

[riversedge]

62. WHEN ONE camp already has the required delegates to win and based on the remaining

number of votes--and the formula says the losing camp can not catch up then time to call a Win.

Sanders camp needs a better stas and app formula IMHO

[book_worm]

41. You know very well if the shoe were on the other foot and Bernie was 0.2% ahead they would be saying

he won. They will say he won in SC, too, if he loses by 20-points, because they will say he was 30 points down. It's just politics.

[Nitram]

45. Mr Bean, you hit the nail on the head.

If Bernie scraped by with a win, Bernistas would be delirious with joy and shouting the Good News from the rooftops. When Clinton wins the primary, they call it a tie and accuse her of cheating.

[Live and Learn]

51. We are. Bernie did win. Sorry you can't see it.

[Nitram]

57. LOL!

[aintitfunny]

52. This is a battle for the most powerful job in the world

Or so I am told. I can't think of a more powerful or influential job to be vying for.

That means nobody rolls over for anyone. I support Bernie Sanders. However, I am not upset that Hillary says she won, nor am I upset that Bernie will not concede. I get it.

She and her campaign folk must play up the win, no matter how slim the difference is. Bernie has good reason to raise questions when a race is so close. He is asking for the actual vote count, why would that not be provided to him?

Nobody plays nice when the stakes are so high. They will use every legitimate opportunity to push ahead.

There are supporters in both camps who are highly emotional, I do not attribute reactions to either candidate.

[fbc]

54. Only difference? One is a corporate shill and one is not?

[Flying Phoenix]

55. No, what gets your goat is that Clinton barely won.

Instead of a easy breeze, she has to find money to actually compete, while Bernie has already competitive by organizing on more states that Clinton thought would never get that far.

Therein lies the problem: Short on cash after blowing 90% of the funds in Iowa, she has to be competitive for NH, NV, and SC. She has a debate on Thursday, and she needs to keep her face "fresh" for the NH voters that are voting on Tuesday, but at the same time, find the money. Her donors are about 79%-85% maxed out and the rest is not enough to sustain a competitive campaign.

The fundraising spigot is drying up. She has to go to her questionable SuperPACs to help sustain the attacks.

Is that the kind of President you want, boston bean?

[watoos]

58. Hillary won the most delegates

and congratulations to her for doing so.
One thing, however, that Hillary cannot claim is that she got the most raw votes in Iowa. We wouldn't want to release those numbers would we? It wouldn't look like so great a victory if more people in Iowa voted for Bernie but Hillary got more delegates.
Again, congratulations to Hillary for winning the most delegates.

[wolfie001]

61. Bernie's in New Hampshire!!!

Concede what? That's not how a primary campaign works. How naïve!!! You: Bernie's campaign:

[Billsmile]

68. Glad Sanders Wanted to Know the Vote Totals

Bernie Sanders wants to make elections day a national holiday. He's a "democratic" socialist who wants 100% participation in the voting process. Fair and accurate elections are what we should strive for.

The DNC has been downright timid in recent years when it comes to questioning questionable election outcomes (which by & large favor Republican candidates). It's nice to see that Senator Sanders might help the Democratic Party get a spine and not take it anymore.

[jtuck004]

69. "Since when the fuck does a win not mean a win" < When the winner works for the bank$ters instead of

the people.

[7wo7rees]

71. This thread proves DU is in for a rough few weeks.

Everyone, please try to keep it together and be nice to one another.

We are for Bernie, not very big fans of DLC, Third Way or whatever else. It does sound as though there were many problems in Iowa. Read an article yesterday about how many would have liked to caucus but could not because they HAD to work.

Iowa is but a blip on the long road to Super Tuesday and after that the Convention.

PEACE!

[dpatbrown]

73. School yard rant, nothing more.

[cherokeeprogressive]

74. Hillary Wins!

There.

[Nyan]

75. what fucking gets my goat is

Clintons getting rid of Glass-Steagall and raking in hundreds of millions as a result of that, and Hillary lying about how she's gonna be tough on them; it's Clintons allowing media giants to merge so now we have brain-dead corporate whores dominating news channels; what fucking gets my goat is a democratic candidate ranting against single-payer healthcare in the way that I have never seen from a fucking republican.

[AgingAmerican]

76. Heads or tails?

As the results streamed in, the mood darkened....

[NCTraveler]

80. Since a woman won a primary.

When women accomplish great things for the first time it is often dismissed.

Clinton will have to get the nomination in order for any of this to be recognized as a win. Some will still dismiss it at that point.

[Geronimoe]

114. Stop playing the gender victim

Hillary made more in any single month last year, than most America working two or three jobs make in a life time.

And as President Carter pointed out; these payments are bribes.

[NCTraveler]

116. Complete deflection on your part.

What she made has absolutely nothing to do with it. And yes, sexism is directed at Clinton daily. It isn't "gender victim" or whatever else you would like to make up to dismiss sexism.

Clinton won.

[KPN]

81. You know what really gets my goat Bean?

... sore winners. In this case, more like whiners. Time to get over the persecution complex and accept it for what it is -- a real contest.

[merrily]

82. Perhaps her campaign calling it a victory speech before a close count was in had something to do it?

While she said only something about a sigh of relief and "Thank you, Iowa," media was told to huddle up for her victory speech.

And, her "victory speech" stepped on Ted Cruz's victory speech, which was not how these things are done.

[ellennelle]

85. NOT A BALL GAME!

folks, please step back and keep perspective here.

ELECTIONS ARE NOT BALL GAMES!!!

i recall after the 2000 FL fiasco, overhearing some young republicans making the precise comparison of gore's loss being "called" by the media "refs," so ipso facto, "it's like in football, if it's over the line and under the time, it's a score."

say WHAT??

here is something to chew on (in addition to the utter craziness of caucuses in general, and these coin tosses etc in particular). i guarantee you, if sanders squeaks out a "win" in NV - where they caucus much the same - as close as HRC got in IA, you will NOT be hearing him claiming it as the "win" she and her supporters are.

if nothing else, the man calls it as he sees it.

so she got one delegate more than bernie, and you call that a win? really???

more importantly, though, this petty dispute is what you decide gets your goat?

[alcibiades_mystery]

86. Hillary Clinton won the Iowa Caucus

The foot stomping about it is very sad and a little disturbing.

[BlueMTexpat]

154. More than a little disturbing, IMO. eom

[Bad Dog]

87. This is what gets my goat.

If I had a goat that is.

[Art_from_Ark]

89. You know what really gets MY goat?

Pretending that someone who was a corporate lawyer who worked to kill a citizens' initiative to give utility rate-payers a break on their bills; who schmoozed with the richest Republican in Arkansas and rode on his corporate jet while not lifting a finger to support the unionization efforts of his employees; who supported NAFTA, the "end of welfare as we know it", and the repeal of Glass-Steagall; who complained about a "vast right-wing conspiracy" but then gave her full support to their bogus arguments for a war against a defenseless country, and who later promoted that war-torn country as a "business oppportnity" for corporations; who promoted a potentially disastrous trade agreement while Secretary of State then half-heartedly "disavowed" it after it appeared to be a done deal; who laughed about the horrible death of another country's leader, and about the prospect for war against another country; who clamored for a direct military confrontation with Russia in Syria; who has accepted millions of dollars in speaking fees from banks that she says she'll "rein in"; who has to rope herself off from the "little people"; and who still has to "evolve" on Democratic bread-and-butter issues, even after 50 years of being involved in politics...

is somehow a "progressive" and a "liberal", while the actual progressive/liberal in this race is just some wacky nut who is promising rainbows and unicorns.

[-none]

135. ^^^Absolutely, positively THIS!^^^

How can anyone see this and not question where Hillary is really coming from? Liberals and Progressives are not Right of Center.
Hillary is in this for the personal fame and glory. That is why she wants to win so badly. Bernie is in it for the people. That is why we need him to win this.
Haven't we had enough of the status quo, orchestrated by the Big Money? Haven't we had enough of voting for the lesser of the evils? Now we have a real choice, for the first time in many decades. Big Money or the Common Citizen? Which are you?

[tularetom]

91. Is this OK?

"She squeaked out a controversial, even questionable win, that she really has no reason to boast about, by the width of one of Senator Sander's wispy hairs."

And by the way, it doesn't matter whether or not any hanky panky was involved in her underwhelming victory. She's a Clinton and people believe it when a Clinton is accused of something sleazy and sneaky. In fact people expect it, and are surprised when they don't.

[treestar]

94. Since it is a woman

Or a black man - if Obama's had been that close, they'd be saying the same thing.

[SoapBox]

99. And after New Hampshire?

[countryken]

102. Hypocrisy

Yes, each candidate's supporter include some that may be considered, 'rabid'. Full disclosure: I am a strong supporter of Bernie. Yes, Hillary won Iowa by 0.2%. She now has a very slight delegate lead. Yes, her supporters can be happy about this. Sanders did better than the final polls and made it much closer than what was expected. His supporters can be happy about this.

Go ahead and jump up and down and scream, 'I won', but put into perspective, this is a first quarter field goal.

And please, on both sides, please cut this divisive crap.

[JonathanRackham]

103. Technically Hillary is next to last now

[-none]

137. Seeing it as it really is.

[Geronimoe]

104. It doesn't take anything more than honesty

to realize Bernie won. If you have six ties, you split them evenly, instead of giving all six to Hillary.

Bernie also won the popular vote by winning in urban precincts.

[AtheistCrusader]

105. "but hell fuck all what is the only difference here"

Policy.

Just the fact that you don't recognize there is more than one difference between the candidates, and the hopes and emotions that get tied up with that political identity, says a lot.

[TryLogic]

106. Boston Bean... get help.

[Mike Nelson]

110. Losing a race this close is difficult...

...he will probably shake it off and focus on future races. If he can't get away from the "I won, she rigged it..." mentality, it will adversely affect his future prospects. After NH, where Bernie is expected to defeat Hillary handily, Iowa should fall by the wayside.

[Avalux]

118. Do you know what pisses me right the fuck off?

The black and white thinking about that 'win' - come on, this isn't your first time around the political block. You know that messaging is everything, and all things considered, Bernie won. He destroyed a 30 point deficit, spent a lot less money, and came out strong with all the momentum.

So in political terms - Bernie won. You can have your 0.2% numerical win.

[OnyxCollie]

119. "...you can try to make it seem like I'm some fringe feminist who sees sexism around every corner...

No need for me to try, as you accomplish that quite handily on your own.

[NV Whino]

120. Anything anti Hillary (or pro Bernie) gets your goat.

[skydive forever]

121. When is a win

Not a win? I don't know, you'll have to ask Al Gore.

[frylock]

123. Congratulations to Secretary Clinton for her .2% margin of victory!

[OnyxCollie]

128. It's a mandate!

MANdate? Sexism! Misogyny!

[frylock]

134. Alerting

[treestar]

136. admit that if it had turned out the opposite

you'd be insisting on Bernie as winning and having momentum. Come on.

[frylock]

140. Bernie has momentum.

Why do guys continue to overlook the 30-points she shed in the last 3 months? Now, if the roles were reversed, and Bernie were the front runner and barely squeaked it out after sinking 90% of his org into Iowa, I'd be heaving a sigh of relief.

[-none]

138. Yep, a real landslide victory there, alright.

[quakerboy]

124. I sorta get that

If its a win, its a win
And if its a tie its a tie(be that exact or moral, or whatever)

But Its hypocritical to ding hillary for saying she won, then say you won on the same or less evidence.

Personally, I would say that it was a win for Hillary. She may not have walked off with her design intact, she may have given up a 60 point lead to a virtual tie. But she edged Bernie by 2 tenths of a percent. That leaves her candidacy intact and gives her the technical win

Bernie did well enough to justify continuing, but he really needed a straight up win in the first two to cement the idea he is a viable candidate. So if he wants to win, hes got a lot more work than Hillary to get there.

[OkSustainAg]

125. I got the goats!

I love raising goats and when they are upset they really let you know about it.
Bernie should concede --says "Why won't you love me".

[Ino]

126. I feel like taking a shower after reading that.

[Roland99]

127. wow...someone's *awfully* sensitive

not to mention overly proud of shenanigans and coin tosses.

[asjr]

129. The caucus is over. Fighting with each other will not change it.

[Broward]

130. As a Bernie supporter, I'm feeling pretty good about this "loss."

[m-lekktor]

132. Poor Boston Bean. nt

[mike_c]

139. here's an explanation....

You're right in one sense-- yes, unless they actually tied, one candidate received more support than the other candidate. This is simple to understand. Unless they both received exactly the same support, there must be a clear winner and a clear loser.

But which one was which? That's the problem. Counts, including vote counts, are notoriously error filled. The entire discipline of statistical analysis owes its existence to that uncertainty about count data. In the Iowa caucuses the democratic caucuses don't collect paper ballots, so there isn't even anything to subject to a recount, but if there was, more than one recount would pretty much inevitably yield more than one different final tally. That's uncertainty. Every such enterprise comes with some uncertainty about the veracity of the results. It's caused by human error, by chicanery, by competing agendas, and so on. There is no way to remove that uncertainty.

The closer the results are, the more similar the vote counts for each candidate, the greater the likelihood that the real, actual, absolute result-- which surely exists-- might be obscured by that uncertainty. In this instance, the counts for Senators Clinton and Sanders were so close that they were certainly within the "margin of error" that represents that uncertainty about the outcomes of counts. So while there was indeed a clear winner and a clear loser, their closeness makes it difficult to say with certainty which was which. And when the difference between the candidates was less than the uncertainty associated with the margin of error, one has to wonder whether winning or losing becomes somewhat abstract as a practical matter.

[mhatrw]

141. When we don't know how many votes either won by. nt

[anamnua]

143. When is a win not a win?

When the winner is Hillary Clinton.

[Gothmog]

146. Hillary Clinton did win the Iowa caucus

[ljm2002]

148. There is no need to "concede"...

...this is not a general election, we don't get gracious concession speeches from the losing side.

Furthermore, it is not uneard-of to ask for a recount in a tight race at any level. Since the DNC has declined to do that, that is the end of the matter.

Looks to me like what really gets your goat is the fact that Hillary's challenger knows how to fight and is willing to do so.

[bvar22]

149. Hillary and her supporters blew a 40 point lead in Iowa.

Spin that any way you want,
but the Hillary Campaign is in a panic.
I enjoyed the "tight lipped frowns" on Hillary, Bill , and Chelsea's faces as the ran from Iowa.
Those looks tell the whole story.

[MoonRiver]

150. Rec BIG time!

The hypocrisy is unbelievable!

[workinclasszero]

151. Bernie was supposed to win Iowa in a huge blowout

to prove his viability in the general election.

But he lost proving he would be a horrible candidate in the general election.

This cannot happen so BS must dispute reality.

[bigwillq]

152. I don't know why it would bother anyone so much

Celebrate. She won! Be happy! Nothing and no one can take that away from Team Clinton.
I would not waste my time on doing anything but celebrating.