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Beacool

(30,250 posts)
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 04:39 AM Feb 2016

Cut Clinton some slack

By Dana Milbank
February 2, 2016

Q: When is a win not a win?

A: When the winner is Hillary Clinton.

The Iowa Democratic Party confirmed in its final tally Tuesday that Clinton had won Monday night’s caucuses. She not only beat Bernie Sanders but got more votes than any Republican candidate, and she becomes the first woman ever to win the Iowa caucuses. Clinton remains the prohibitive favorite to win the Democratic presidential nomination.

Yet from the coverage of Monday’s caucuses, you’d think Clinton was on the ropes.

-----

Why the disparate treatment? Some see sexism, which is difficult to prove. But there does seem to be a long-running game in which Clinton can never quite meet the expectations set for her, even if her actual achievements are considerable. She raised a ton of money — but Sanders raised almost as much! She won the Iowa caucuses — but she didn’t win by enough!

Yes, the narrow win in Iowa could make for a more protracted nomination battle. So would an expected loss in New Hampshire, which the media will likely attribute to Clinton’s weakness rather than Sanders being a New Englander (like previous New Hampshire victors Romney, John Kerry, Paul Tsongas, Michael Dukakis and Edmund Muskie). But it may have been a hard slog no matter who was in the race with Clinton: She’s a candidate of steadiness at a time when the electorate wants iconoclasts.

Voters, particularly young ones, are easily wooed by talk of free college and free health care. They can be intemperate (as demonstrated by the supporters at the Sanders rally in Des Moines on Monday night who booed Clinton when she appeared on television and chanted “She’s a liar!”) and can fall for unrealistic promises. But Clinton, to her credit, is not pretending to be something other than herself this time. “I come to you with a lifetime of service and advocacy and of getting results” was her less-than-soaring pitch here Tuesday.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/cut-clinton-some-slack/2016/02/02/5656a30e-c9f5-11e5-ae11-57b6aeab993f_story.html

Hillary has to fight on two fronts, attacks from the Left and the Right. Milbank is correct, the media acted as if she had lost, and lost by a country mile. They seemed disappointed that she was declared the winner. I can imagine the endless bloviating we can expect after the NH primary, if as predicted, Sanders wins it handily.

65 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Cut Clinton some slack (Original Post) Beacool Feb 2016 OP
Its hard to get past madokie Feb 2016 #1
I rolled my eyes when I saw the name. nt artislife Feb 2016 #5
You and me both, sister. eom Betty Karlson Feb 2016 #63
Oh brother! jen63 Feb 2016 #18
Yep. Someone who would write something so transparently deceptive is disgusting. GoneFishin Feb 2016 #34
yep. I didn't bother to read it when i saw his name. m-lekktor Feb 2016 #22
Hillary may have won by 0.3% - essentially a tie Philos Feb 2016 #2
IA and NH are more liberal and white than many other states. Beacool Feb 2016 #4
Yeah, we've been hearing that talking point for months too Philos Feb 2016 #6
Did I say anything about Hillary? Beacool Feb 2016 #10
The talking point was that Bernie will win white IA and NH Philos Feb 2016 #11
Not really. Beacool Feb 2016 #14
Yes, if people see enough of him karynnj Feb 2016 #60
I have no doubt that he's a decent man who believes what he spouts. Beacool Feb 2016 #64
"by far the most energized supporters" - didn't translate into votes on Monday, did it? DrDan Feb 2016 #25
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2016 #28
well . . . you know, every vote counts - elections can be decided by a single vote DrDan Feb 2016 #32
This is not about white or liberal madokie Feb 2016 #7
Actually, I think that it's the other way around. Sanders is the one who talks platitudes. Beacool Feb 2016 #12
says you madokie Feb 2016 #13
I'm not going to post her curriculum vitae. Beacool Feb 2016 #15
Why not you claim she's done so much? JRLeft Feb 2016 #42
Exactly, Super Tuesday is going to be it. Amimnoch Feb 2016 #33
Exactly! pandr32 Feb 2016 #54
Welcome to DU madokie Feb 2016 #8
Thanks Philos Feb 2016 #9
Hello bigwillq Feb 2016 #21
Sorry, can't do it. Thks for trying though. 7wo7rees Feb 2016 #3
Interesting phrase "prohibitive favorite". aikoaiko Feb 2016 #16
This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Feb 2016 #17
Dana, Dana, Dana ejbr Feb 2016 #19
But what would have happened if all things had been equal? SammyWinstonJack Feb 2016 #30
I'm feeling it Sammy! ejbr Feb 2016 #36
HRC was ahead by 50 points a few months ago left-of-center2012 Feb 2016 #20
And by a few months ago... BklnDem75 Feb 2016 #35
... VulgarPoet Feb 2016 #23
+1. kath Feb 2016 #43
NO,WE CAN'T !! cut her slack. Hiraeth Feb 2016 #24
Why must every opposition to Hillary be a plot? EmperorHasNoClothes Feb 2016 #26
My "favorite" ejbr Feb 2016 #37
bernie sanders supporters not much different from Nader supporters at this moment beachbum bob Feb 2016 #27
Yawn... ejbr Feb 2016 #39
Is there anything else you want to tell me about what I'm thinking? EmperorHasNoClothes Feb 2016 #45
Oh, you know VulgarPoet Feb 2016 #47
Thanks for your concern. GoneOffShore Feb 2016 #48
Sorry to burst that beachbum bubble, but more Dems voted for Bush in Florida (by several KingCharlemagne Feb 2016 #65
I'll cut her some slack when she starts representing real people... Android3.14 Feb 2016 #29
+1000000 SammyWinstonJack Feb 2016 #31
100% TCJ70 Feb 2016 #38
So, Hillary supporters are not real people? Beacool Feb 2016 #40
I think we both know the $ource of the majority of her $upport Android3.14 Feb 2016 #44
Hit the nail on the head. Several times. GoneOffShore Feb 2016 #49
I don't agree with you, but let's leave it at that. Beacool Feb 2016 #59
The media lost. They have been working for decades to take Clinton down. NCTraveler Feb 2016 #41
Hardly - They're in the tank for her. GoneOffShore Feb 2016 #50
Colbert worthy parody. Thanks. NCTraveler Feb 2016 #52
Milbank is correct book_worm Feb 2016 #46
Uhhh..... No. GoneOffShore Feb 2016 #51
LOL, no. Kalidurga Feb 2016 #53
In answer to the question... ljm2002 Feb 2016 #55
Waaaaaa!!!!! Leave Hillary Alone!! jillan Feb 2016 #56
While she warrants opposition due to her positions, the rabid hatred directed to her is sickening. LonePirate Feb 2016 #57
Thank you, that' precisely my point. Beacool Feb 2016 #62
Same guy who said supporting Sanders is "insane"? Now calling for giving Clinton slack? Armstead Feb 2016 #58
Cut Clinton a hack! mhatrw Feb 2016 #61

jen63

(813 posts)
18. Oh brother!
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 06:13 AM
Feb 2016

My favorite line; "she not only beat Bernie Sanders, but got more votes than any Republican candidate." There were eleven of them. Yeah, he must think we're that dumb.

 

Philos

(85 posts)
2. Hillary may have won by 0.3% - essentially a tie
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 04:44 AM
Feb 2016

But the momentum is clearly on Bernie's side, and that is why many people consider him to be the winner. If you remember, just several months ago, Hillary was supposed to be inevitable. Some of her supporters were already measuring up and ordering new furniture for the Oval Office. Bernie has turned all that on its head.

Beacool

(30,250 posts)
4. IA and NH are more liberal and white than many other states.
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 04:49 AM
Feb 2016

I think that Super Tuesday will give everybody a clearer picture of where this race is going.

 

Philos

(85 posts)
6. Yeah, we've been hearing that talking point for months too
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 04:57 AM
Feb 2016

I think Hillary's supporters considerably overestimate her support among women, gays and non-whites, and are still basing their estimates on figures from last year when Bernie was more or less an unknown to a lot of people. However, the more people get to know Bernie, the more support he draws in, and the tide is turning. And remember, support for Hillary means nothing if they don't actually vote when the time comes. Bernie has by far the most energized supporters.

Beacool

(30,250 posts)
10. Did I say anything about Hillary?
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 05:04 AM
Feb 2016

Nope, I said that Super Tuesday will give everybody a clearer picture of the race.

 

Philos

(85 posts)
11. The talking point was that Bernie will win white IA and NH
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 05:09 AM
Feb 2016

And falter in states where there are more minorities. I'm not even sure Hillary supporters ever really even believed that be accurate, instead they just tried to use race as a wedge. So while you might not have mentioned Hillary explicitly, that is what you were implying.

Beacool

(30,250 posts)
14. Not really.
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 05:12 AM
Feb 2016

At this point in time, most of Sanders' supporters are young and white liberals. Can this change? Maybe, time will tell.

karynnj

(59,504 posts)
60. Yes, if people see enough of him
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 04:52 PM
Feb 2016

In Vermont, he got over 70% of the vote. There are not 70% liberals here. Vermont has an aging population and he is very very well liked by many seniors. In fact, at a discussion on other issues by a former head of the VT AARP last June, he was asked about Bernie, who had just announced. Now, this was in Burlington, but his answer was that vets and the elderly could be the surprise support for Bernie - if they learned how responsive he was to those communities in VT.

I hope that his staff - seeing the demographics from Iowa - adds to their wonderful group of positive ads, two new ones using vets and elderly Vermonters - in ads like the Dairy Farmer one where believable people act as character witnesses for him. Not to mention, for the elderly, it would help if FDR's many SOCIAL DEMOCRATIC programs and the President himself were mentioned. Go look at the list of FDR programs, and consider what the media and the Congress would say to any of them. Senior citizens grew up in eras when the FDR and LBJ social programs were considered what a fair country does ... and they led to a more prosperous country. Bernie's platform is not more extreme than what they accomplished.

Beacool

(30,250 posts)
64. I have no doubt that he's a decent man who believes what he spouts.
Thu Feb 4, 2016, 01:36 PM
Feb 2016

It's just that I don't believe that he would be able to enact even a quarter of what he proposes. People came out in droves to see Obama, where did all that "hope and change" go? What Mario Cuomo used to say, and what Hillary has often quoted, is true. You campaign in poetry and you govern in prose. 60s Socialism will not come to fruition in this era. Young people graduate from college and move on. The majority of them will not start a revolution. Sanders was in Congress for 26 years. If he couldn't convince his fellow Congress critters to pass more progressive laws when he was a member, how would he do it as president? The Republicans have the largest majority in the House that they have had since 1929. A good portion of those Reps. are members of the Tea Party, not even Boehner could control them. One of the reasons why he got so frustrated that he resigned. The only thing in foresee in a Sanders presidency is gridlock.


Response to DrDan (Reply #25)

DrDan

(20,411 posts)
32. well . . . you know, every vote counts - elections can be decided by a single vote
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 09:35 AM
Feb 2016

and that vote decides the winner.

To discount that thought is nothing more than sour grapes.

madokie

(51,076 posts)
7. This is not about white or liberal
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 04:59 AM
Feb 2016

this is about Bernie and Hillary and a way forward for our country. One has a plan the other one not so much.
One talks in specifics while the other one talks in platitudes

I will support the nominee but I will not support Hillary at this point in time. I honestly don't think for a second she will be our nominee, while on the other hand I do believe Bernie to be the way forward.

Beacool

(30,250 posts)
12. Actually, I think that it's the other way around. Sanders is the one who talks platitudes.
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 05:10 AM
Feb 2016

He's been pushing the same agenda for 26 years in Congress to little effect. The agenda that he has almost no chance of passing through Congress if he were to become president. Calls for "political revolution" are pie in the sky dreams. This is not Cuba, it's not even Europe.

madokie

(51,076 posts)
13. says you
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 05:12 AM
Feb 2016

What has Clinton done that is so important that she should be president? all I can find is bad choices

Beacool

(30,250 posts)
15. I'm not going to post her curriculum vitae.
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 05:15 AM
Feb 2016

You prefer Sanders, that's your right. I don't and never will. Of course I would vote for him if he's the nominee, but I'll be wondering if Americans on the Left lost their minds as much as Americans on the Right.

 

Amimnoch

(4,558 posts)
33. Exactly, Super Tuesday is going to be it.
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 09:41 AM
Feb 2016

Iowa and New Hampshire, Sanders back yard.

Iowa - a state that should have been a landslide for Bernie. One of his best polling states. A state population of 3.12 million (per latest cencus, and of those (as of 2012) a college enrollment of 299,766 students (Supposedly Bernies Biggest Demographic). That's almost 10% of the states population! Even with this high advantage it still took him tremendous investment, time and campaign effort to get from a 24 point lag to a neck and neck run with Hillary (not to mention almost 3 months).

New Hampshire, he will very likely get. Luckily it's a caucus and it will only bump him slightly in delegate count.

Super Tuesday, however. That's going to be an interesting one.

Alabama - Unable to locate polling data for this state.

Arkansas - LOL. 63 point lead for Clinton (homestate advantage to be fair)

Colorado - Clinton's up a full 28 points in Colorado.

Georgia - Clinton up 43 points!

Massachusetts - Clinton up by 29 points (I wouldn't be too surprised if this one closes a lot in Sanders favor though)

Minnesota - Clinton up by 34 points.

North Carolina - Clinton up by 30 points.

Oklahoma - Clinton up by 22 points (Sanders might actually be able to push this one if he really tries, and focuses on those Republican style talking points. There is a STRONG anti Clinton sentiment there).

Tennessee - Clinton up by 20 points.

Texas - Clinton up by 37 points (me and some of my neighbors are organizing a Clinton voting "Flashmob" for our precinct).

Vermont - Unable to locate an actual poll, but this is going to be a Sanders landslide win.

Virginia - Clinton up by 36 points.

27 days and counting!





pandr32

(11,588 posts)
54. Exactly!
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 01:53 PM
Feb 2016

Hopefully Sanders and his supporters will come down from the clouds soon and work to help Sec. Clinton beat the Republican nominee.

aikoaiko

(34,172 posts)
16. Interesting phrase "prohibitive favorite".
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 05:18 AM
Feb 2016


A prohibitive favorite is one so likely to win as to discourage others from competing.

I think we see that she is not the prohibitive favorite as Bernie is not discouraged.

It doesn't surprise me that Dana Milbank doesn't understand the meaning of words.

Response to Beacool (Original post)

ejbr

(5,856 posts)
19. Dana, Dana, Dana
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 07:43 AM
Feb 2016

8 years prep, oodles of money, establishment backers, name recognition, gender novelty, and competing against someone whom the pundits laughed at, had no large donors, and is not "presidential". Yes, she won, but what would've happened had all things been equal?

BklnDem75

(2,918 posts)
35. And by a few months ago...
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 09:57 AM
Feb 2016

You mean February 2015, right?

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-iowa-presidential-democratic-caucus


Bernie announced his run on April 30th. The last time Hillary was 30 points up was June 29th. Bernie was within 10 before 2016. Just FYI.

VulgarPoet

(2,872 posts)
23. ...
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 08:46 AM
Feb 2016
“I come to you with a lifetime of service and advocacy and of getting results”


Except for when, y'know, you and yours were ratshagging just about every serviceman and woman who swore an oath to defend your Constitution, only to get thrown into a pointless 15 year war that you voted for where we weren't even defending ourselves, but installing a power vacuum in the middle east, losing hundreds of thousands of American lives, and creating a terrorist organization to fill said power vacuum?

Your definition of "service and advocacy" makes me sincerely fear for my future if you get the seat.

kath

(10,565 posts)
43. +1.
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 01:01 PM
Feb 2016

"Your definition of "service and advocacy" makes me sincerely fear for my future if you get the seat." BINGO!

ejbr

(5,856 posts)
37. My "favorite"
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 10:23 AM
Feb 2016

excuse for our problems with her is that we have been brainwashed with right wing talking points! Got it? The right hates Wall Street and the military industrial complex, dontcha know?

 

beachbum bob

(10,437 posts)
27. bernie sanders supporters not much different from Nader supporters at this moment
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 09:18 AM
Feb 2016

its all about them and their "principles"...and thats ok bernie brings the issues to the debate on what seperates us from the batshit crazies on the right....but lets see how they act in November when their choice is to support and vote for Hillary or let a batshit crazy conservative win by not voting...hopefully they don't make the same mistake the Nader supporters did...and give America a disaster because of their selfishness...

EmperorHasNoClothes

(4,797 posts)
45. Is there anything else you want to tell me about what I'm thinking?
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 01:07 PM
Feb 2016

We're you born with your clairvoyant abilities or did they develop over time?

VulgarPoet

(2,872 posts)
47. Oh, you know
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 01:40 PM
Feb 2016

"Your principles are useless", "surrender your conscience", "lay down in front of the machine" except dressed up in pretty, warmongering corporatist speak.

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
65. Sorry to burst that beachbum bubble, but more Dems voted for Bush in Florida (by several
Thu Feb 4, 2016, 01:43 PM
Feb 2016

orders of magnitude) than voted for Nader. were the Dems who voted for Bush also 'selfish'???

 

Android3.14

(5,402 posts)
29. I'll cut her some slack when she starts representing real people...
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 09:28 AM
Feb 2016

standing on principle, and telling the truth.

Until then, and after the primaries, she is just the lesser of two evils.

TCJ70

(4,387 posts)
38. 100%
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 10:24 AM
Feb 2016

I'm tired of voting for "Not the other party". I'll be happy to cast a vote for Sanders since he's representing and running for real people.

Beacool

(30,250 posts)
40. So, Hillary supporters are not real people?
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 12:55 PM
Feb 2016

The vast numbers of what was formerly called the base of the party: union folks, AA, gays, Hispanics, Asians, the middle class, etc. These are the people supporting her. I guess only the young and the very liberal are considered "real" people in Sanders' world?

 

Android3.14

(5,402 posts)
44. I think we both know the $ource of the majority of her $upport
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 01:05 PM
Feb 2016

Last edited Wed Feb 3, 2016, 02:10 PM - Edit history (1)

The rest of them are supporting her for reasons that have little to do with the challenges our country faces.

As DUer antigop noted, Hillary supporters (and I am not talking about the bizarroland sockpuppets or the ones who are spineless cowards afraid to stand up for their children's children's children) tend to have one or more characteristics from the following list:

1) Benefit from the status quo.
2) Have not been harmed (yet) by the status quo.
3) Want a female prez sooo badly.
4) Really do not understand the problems we face (thank you, MSM!)
5) Some combination of the above.

Beacool

(30,250 posts)
59. I don't agree with you, but let's leave it at that.
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 04:31 PM
Feb 2016

No one here is changing anyone else's mind. We all know who we support.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
41. The media lost. They have been working for decades to take Clinton down.
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 12:57 PM
Feb 2016

They flat out lost and they know it. They put their full effort into opposing Clinton.

ljm2002

(10,751 posts)
55. In answer to the question...
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 02:02 PM
Feb 2016

...Q: When is a win not a win?

A: When the winning margin is much lower than predicted.

This has been true in every political race since commentators and pollsters started making predictions. It is even more true now, when polls come out every few days leading up to a vote or a caucus.

When you watch a 30-point "lead" evaporate over the period of 3 months, that is news. Sorry, Clinton supporters, but that's just how it is.

LonePirate

(13,425 posts)
57. While she warrants opposition due to her positions, the rabid hatred directed to her is sickening.
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 02:26 PM
Feb 2016

It's one thing to support Bernie because he is better on the issues. It's another thing entirely to direct such vicious hate towards Clinton, especially here on DU. There are days when I cannot tell the difference between DU and FR due to all of the vitriol directed at Clinton. We should be better than that around here.

Beacool

(30,250 posts)
62. Thank you, that' precisely my point.
Thu Feb 4, 2016, 01:26 PM
Feb 2016

I think that pointing out differences in policy between the candidates is fair game, but the personal attacks on a supposed Democratic site are as vicious as those on any RW site. That's what I object to and find disgusting. Many Hillary supporters have moved on to other sites. This one has always been anti-Clinton.


 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
58. Same guy who said supporting Sanders is "insane"? Now calling for giving Clinton slack?
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 02:29 PM
Feb 2016

Yeah, right. That is to be taken seriously,.

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