Every time the party's left raises their little pointy heads and makes noises....this stuff happens.

[madfloridian]

First off, the meme that we supporters of Bernie Sanders and Bernie Sanders himself are not Democratic enough really needs to stop. It's ridiculous and it's harmful to the party's future success.

Secondly instead of loudly proclaiming victory when the totals for the candidates were only .2% apart, it would be more gracious to acknowledge a worthy opponent for a little while as well as mentioning his supporters enthusiasm. It would not hurt the winner, and it would ease the way for hard feelings to soften.

It's like the party leaders have their standards and rules and talking points, and they don't need the rest of us.

You can't put people down and question their intelligence for a year, and then expect them to be there and fall in line when needed.

I was called "fringe" and worse when my late hubby and I supported Dean. We were accused of being cultlike and True Believers. It wasn't as bad when we supported Obama in 2008.

There has been name-calling by the right wing of the party even as far back as 2000. Gore tried being populist but was dragged back to the right. And they left him hanging along with Florida's hanging chads.

It still goes on. Look at what happened in early December 2013 with the Third Way attack on Elizabeth Warren.

Hunter at Daily Kos wrote about why this happened. He posted a chart showing the Board of Trustees of the Third Way. He labeled it.

Why the Third Way hates Senator Elizabeth Warren

The obsessive centrists of the punditverse were abuzz today with praise for supposed centrist Democratic organization Third Way and their grumbling op-ed condemnation of Democratic liberal populism in abstract and "economic populists" like Sen. Elizabeth Warren in particular.

But why would the Third Way, a very reasonable and centrist organization that just wants both parties to get along and agree to cut Social Security, Medicare, and other social programs be so very worked up about Elizabeth Warren, Wall Street reform, and the mere thought of breaking up large banks? Worked up enough to launch an apparently coordinated effort against those things?

The chart is self-explanatory.

There's a reason that those in the Democratic Party who call themselves "centrists" or "moderates" have had much to say about those of us on the left for years now.

We throw a wrench into their corporate pursuits for the party, and it annoys them.

Howard Dean recognized this in 2010. His words still remain in my mind. He was 100% right.

From the Washington Post 2010:

Dean at progressive conference. Time for Democrats to 'behave like Democrats'

Dean, in a fiery speech Tuesday at the America's Future Now conference, gave voice to frustrations on the left that President Obama and Democratic leaders in Congress have not used their big majorities to pursue a more progressive agenda. "We are done with putting people in office who then forget who got them there," said Dean, a former Democratic National Committee chairman.

"You did your job," Dean added. "You elected Barack Obama. You elected a Democratic Congress. You elected a Democratic Senate. And now it's time for them to behave like Democrats if they want to get reelected. They have forgotten where they came from -- and they haven't been here that long."

Dean echoed other progressive leaders who opened the conference Monday, expressing dismay, even anger, at the White House and Congress, saying they have been too timid and compromising on issues such as health care, the economy, climate change and banking reform.

He went back to being a centrist spokesperson.

I think we have made a difference by not letting these think tanks get away with words against liberals. It seems there is now less of it. I think it is because through the years we called them out on it. With the TPP looming with Democrats' support..we need to speak out and not let them silence us with insults.

Richard Eskow spared no words either right after the 2010 losses.

Resist Wall Street's Shock Doctrine or Keep Listening to the Usual Suspects

After last night's rout, what are these experts advising? You guessed it: more of the same so-called "Centrism." That's an odd word to use for policies that most Americans oppose, like cutting Social Security or allowing bankers to enrich themselves by endangering the economy, but theirs is an Alice-in-Wonderland world.

Real centrists would defend Social Security and do more to rein in Wall Street, since those positions are popular across the political spectrum. It's a good thing the president said today that he wants to spend more time with the American people. Bankers and the Deficit Commission aren't "centrists" where most Americans live.

David Brooks had some strong words for the liberals in the party in 2007. The DLC posted the article prominently at their website. Here is the quote from Brooks at the NYT.

The Center Holds

The fact is, many Democratic politicians privately detest the netroots’ self-righteousness and bullying. They also know their party has a historic opportunity to pick up disaffected Republicans and moderates, so long as they don’t blow it by drifting into cuckoo land. They also know that a Democratic president is going to face challenges from Iran and elsewhere that are going to require hard-line, hawkish responses.

I would have ignored David Brooks and considered the source, but the then alive DLC posted it at their site.

When Tim Kaine was party chairman in 2006 he had some words about blogs and his intention to pay them no attention. Guess he did not realize he was missing out on a lot of good information.

From the Washington Post:

Blogs Attack From Left as Democrats Reach for Center

"Blogs can take up a lot of time if you're on them," Kaine said to reporters Thursday. "You can get a lot done if you're not bitterly partisan."

The Virginia Democrat said he will not adjust his speech to placate the party's base. "I'm not anybody's mouthpiece or shill or poster boy for that matter. I'm going to say what I think needs to be said and they seem very comfortable with that."

From the same article a Democratic lobbyist made it clear that liberals were needed for their money and activism, but the party should not cave to their demands.

"The bloggers and online donors represent an important resource for the party, but they are not representative of the majority you need to win elections," said Steve Elmendorf, a Democratic lobbyist who advised Kerry's 2004 presidential campaign. "The trick will be to harness their energy and their money without looking like you are a captive of the activist left."

And of course Fox News Democratic strategist Kirsten Powers had a lot to say in 2006 about how the liberals were becoming so shrill.

From USA Today:
Election signals decline of old school liberalism

It's more glacial shift than radical revolution, but change is afoot in the Democratic Party.

In a low point in Democratic Party history, Pennsylvania Gov. Bob Casey was banned from speaking at the 1992 Democratic Convention for being opposed to abortion rights. This year, his son, Bob Casey Jr., who holds the same views, was actively recruited by that same Democratic Party and unseated Sen. Rick Santorum, R-Pa.

This was a welcome move in a party that is home to vocal and organized far-left activists and bloggers who have grown increasingly shrill and threatening toward moderate and conservative Democrats. They also have excoriated former president Bill Clinton's brand of centrist politics. They argue for "party discipline," best exemplified by their jihad against Connecticut's Sen. Joe Lieberman for deviating from the party line on the Iraq war. During the past election for Democratic National Committee chair, delegates booed former congressman Tim Roemer of Indiana because he, too, opposes abortion rights.

When they attacked Elizabeth Warren for wanting to expand Social Security, the blogs and posters online hit back hard. That is how it should be. The think tanks who are not really Democrats at all but are led by investment bankers and CEOs will continue to undermine the left, the liberals. But if we speak out they won't be so noisy about it.

There are signs we might be getting across our point that what we really want is for the party to stand up and speak out for the people....not the corporate world.

I guess I'm like a broken record, but it's pretty serious when a party shuts out its left.

I have been a Democrat since the day I could vote for the first time. Bernie may have an I after his name, but he's one of the best and strongest Democrats I've ever seen.

Iowa was an amazing feat for a 73 year old senator from a tiny state. The fact that he raised another million dollars soon after the caucus ended should indicate that he has the funds to be in this for the long run. I know I am.

I would like to once again be considered a Democrat, but then if that's not going to happen I can deal with it.

(Part of this is reposted from a couple of years ago, part is new)

[Hiraeth]

1. Even Trump was more gracious.

[madfloridian]

2. Yes, he was, surprisingly.

[Jarqui]

3. Didn't think of it at the time but that's true.

[TwilightGardener]

6. I just saw Trevor Noah make that point. Yikes. It's true.

[Ken Burch]

145. Trevor Noah has established himself as a distinctive and truthful voice in a very short time.

n/t.

[TwilightGardener]

149. Yep--I've become a fairly regular viewer.

[madfloridian]

183. Will need to watch his show.

Sounds interesting.

[senz]

15. It's true.

There's something wrong with her, some essential human quality not there. Lately I'm feeling sorry for her husband and daughter. I'll feel even sorrier for the country if she gets elected.

[Hiraeth]

16. She has no humility. She is not humble. She is not salt of the earth. She approaches this as if

it is hers already and it is being taken away from her rather that realizing that it is up for grabs by all who threw in their hats and she is just one of many. She is one NOT The Only One.

[senz]

46. It was the same in 2008, as grotesque then as now.

After one of the debates, I suggested that Hillary should have shown a little humility in a certain situation, and the response from one of her supporters was complete shock, as if it were outrageous to expect such a thing from her. So it's possible her supporters think as highly of her as she does of herself.

[hifiguy]

156. She has the common touch of Marie Antoinette

and the humility of Napoleon.

She has sold every bit of whatever soul she had to ambition. There's no there there.

[Skidmore]

157. I don't think she believes that or has said that but

I understand how it becomes important to dehumanize someone so you don't have to really listen to what they say. Humans are funny that way.

[sabrina 1]

47. I was looking at footage of her somewhere a few days ago when she was First Lady

Or right before Clinton was elected. She was very arrogant, very certain she was right. Bill was very different, very charasmatic, made people feel like he cared about them. Hillary was cold, talks about people the way a businessman would talk about a product.

[merrily]

49. Meh. I think he's just more skilled as a politician.

[senz]

54. I gave her the benefit of the doubt for a long time.

I thought she was merely shy and awkward, an introvert who wasn't comfortable in a public life and who felt stung by rightwing attacks. I saw her coldness then as self-protection. She didn't come into focus for me until her 2008 assault on Obama, which is when I began seriously disliking her. Bill, too -- I'd made excuses for him, thought he "had" to give in to Republican demands on welfare reform, NAFTA, 1996 Telecom Act, etc. It wasn't until I heard he'd taken up with the Bushes that I realized he wasn't the Democrat I thought he was. Now, after so many of the pieces have fallen into place, I can't believe I ever trusted either of them. To me, they are hucksters playing the system for their personal benefit, not giving a damn about America as a place where regular people can live decent lives in an atmosphere of fairness and mutual caring, valued and protected by a wise, responsible government of their own choosing. They've never seemed humbled by the responsibility the people entrusted them with.

But I do agree Bill is the more human of the two. Last night during her strange post-caucus speech, she looked like a brittle manikin forcing out words, while Bill and Chelsea seemed very human and very sad (a friend thought Bill looked physically ill). My opinion of their family dynamics has changed quite a bit. I don't think I've ever seen Chelsea looking genuinely happy and centered. There's always something inhibited and sad about her. I don't know, the whole thing is disturbing. I wish that family had found something different to do with their lives.

[Enthusiast]

72. I just wait for someone to post exactly my thoughts then say +1.

[senz]

137. It is sad.

[Bohunk68]

82. +1,000 Pretty much the way I am seeing it also.

[Enthusiast]

164. When the righties attacked Hillary for saying, "It takes a village." I would see red.

I felt I knew what Hillary meant when she said that, I felt connected to her. Over time my feelings of being connected with Hillary eroded. By the time the 2008 primary were over I was clear done. I realized I had been mistaken.

I guess I have evolved too.

[dorkzilla]

75. I honestly think she has an anti-social personality disorder

I think she's actually a psychopath, but she also fits the profile of a sociopath but they now get lumped into the general heading of anti-social personality disorder.

I'm on a kindle and it's nearly impossible to cut and paste so I'm just l posting a Wikipedia link that you can read and judge for yourself. It started to occur to me yesterday so I've been reading a lot about it and I'm convinced of it now. I read so many articles on line yesterday that I now fully expect to get spam emails from mental health professionals.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder

[BillZBubb]

112. I'm not a big fan of Hillary, but this is preposterous.

Leave psychology to the professionals. Armchair psychologists are always wrong.

There is NOTHING in Hillary's background that suggests psychopathy. Amateur's like you can look at a list of traits shared by psychopaths and project them onto anyone. Everyone reading this has some of those traits. Everyone of us.

I find it very disturbing (and disgusting) that one Democrat would attack another with this line of nonsense.

[dorkzilla]

124. Your disgust is duly noted

I am, as is everyone else here, entitled to my opinion, especially as I lived with someone with a personality disorder for 10 years and think I can spot them pretty well. And while you’re correct that all of us have some of these traits, the number of traits one possesses can lend credence to the observations of an amateur.

Again, it is my opinion, and this is a discussion board in which - wait for it - people share their opinions. I’m not spouting off about a private citizen but someone running for president.

[senz]

142. ...

Love the way you stand up for yourself, dorkzilla. Excellent assertiveness, polite and firm, perfect. I'm getting better at it, but you could teach it.

[dorkzilla]

144. :)

It’s definitely a learned trait...I mean I never was a shrinking violet but I never stood up for myself. Being married to that cuckoo bird for 10 years made me embrace my inner Boudicca

[pocoloco]

134. I truly hope you have your head buried in the sand.....

instead of up where the sun doesn't shine!

......but all is not lost, try a little fresh air and sunshine and maybe
you can see at least dimly, what is clear for most!

[pablo_marmol]

176. LOL --- "Armchair psychologists are always wrong."

Actually, amateur logicians who belch out absolute statements are frequently wrong.

[senz]

141. I've had to do quite a bit of research into these things

for, like you, self-defense and healing. I've done quite a bit of research into NPD as well as ASPD and feel reasonably clear on them. I'm reluctant to diagnose people, but when all the factors line up, it's hard to ignore.

I'm not sure she's a sociopath and am leaning against it. However, she could easily, easily, be NPD, which has some traits in common with ASPD. About a month ago a very nice, somewhat new, DUer made the NPD claim for her and posted the symptoms/signs, but they did so at a time when this site was prickly with alert stalking and I suggested they delete, which they did. Still not sure it's safe to post the list, so I'll give this link (check out the "DSM criteria," 9 traits): http://outofthefog.website/personality-disorders-1/2015/12/6/narcissistic-personality-disorder-npd

I've read a ton of stuff on NPD, but this short, clear list is the best I've seen.

So, anyway, you can decide for yourself.

[dorkzilla]

143. I agree, that’s why I said “personality disorder” in general

My ex-husband was, according to his doctor, the worst case of NPD he’d ever seen (my ex permitted his doctor to tell me this in a joint therapy session at the end of our marriage). He also said there is often sufficient comorbidity that sometimes its hard to diagnose and indeed it took the doctor some time to do so.

In some cases, certain personality disorders can actually help people if they’re in certain professions, like CEO’s and the like. I’m not labelling these disorders as bad, just really hard to live with every day. I am merely pointing out that HRC’s ability to profess different beliefs from one day to the next is really disconcerting, and certainly not what one would regard as “normal” so I’m trying to figure out why one would behave in such a way. I think its an issue one could consider if one cares to. I care to. I harbor no delusions that I have or can actually make a diagnosis but she’s a fascinating character study.

Since you’re also interested in the topic, you might find this article interesting.

http://thehustle.co/your-ceo-is-probably-a-psychopath

[grasswire]

172. another survivor of marriage to NPD here

I immediately saw the narcissism in George W. I haven't thought about that regarding Hillary, but I have wondered in the last few weeks why it is that she adopts the victim mantle so often and why such anger accompanies it. Wouldn't the healthy thing be to stop making yourself a target, when the negativism is so strong? I wonder what it is in her childhood experiences and relations that makes her embrace punishment so heartily.

[one_voice]

152. That's wrong on so many levels.

My opinion.

[dorkzilla]

155. Perhaps.

Perhaps not. As I said, to each his own, we can disagree on this.

[Hekate]

160. Really? This is how we win an election?

Really? This is how we win an election? Make sure the candidate you don't support is unelectable?

[dorkzilla]

161. I’m not doing anything of the sort

It is by no means a slur, and does not render her unelectable. Rather, it seems she would be the norm:

Our primary interest is in the traits that comprise the psychopathic personality, and the somewhat controversial idea that some of these traits could be interpersonally adaptive. Most psychopaths don’t end up doing very well. But there’s long been a lot of speculation and a lot of clinical lore that at least some of the traits could be partly successful in some domains like leadership, politics, business and the military.

Presidents are an interesting group in and of themselves, and can be studied because their successful and unsuccessful behaviors are largely part of historical record—whether they’ve passed a lot of legislation, say, or whether they’ve been impeached. We were able to inherit a data set from two of our coauthors [Steven Rubenzer and Thomas Faschingbauer]. They had collected a wealth of very rich personality data of living biographers by experts on every president.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/on-leadership/what-good-presidents-and-psychopaths-have-in-common/2012/09/18/61ee4ab6-0106-11e2-b257-e1c2b3548a4a_story.html

ETA - this is also a pretty good article entitled "The Startling Accuracy of Referring to Politicians as ‘Psychopaths’"

Research has shown that disorder may confer certain advantages that make psychopaths particularly suited to a life on the public stage and able to handle high-pressure situations: psychopaths score low on measures of stress reactivity, anxiety and depression, and high on measures of competitive achievement, positive impressions on first encounters, and fearlessness. Sound like the description of a successful politician and leader?

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/07/the-startling-accuracy-of-referring-to-politicians-as-psychopaths/260517/

[sabrina 1]

180. I think people who seek out power and money to the extent Hillary has done, are

generally 'different'. I'm sure the thinks she knows what's best for us little people and that she has no idea how she comes across when she talks about what the little people 'need'. There is so much ego involved in someone who TELLS people what they need rather than listen to them.

Hillary talks down to people, Bernie talks to people, he listens to them.

[dorkzilla]

182. Agreed on all points! nt

[Divernan]

63. Her abused childhood has cast a long, wide and lethal shadow

Her father was a bitter man who constantly ridiculed and demeaned his wife and children. According to statements by Bill, Hugh Rodham also physically abused his children.

http://www.today.com/id/18984501/ns/today-today_books/t/bernstein-hillary-clintons-ambition/#.VrHGOkCnaDE

Who is Hillary Rodham Clinton? In his biography, “A Woman in Charge,” Carl Bernstein, who shared a Pulitzer Prize with Bob Woodward for their coverage of Watergate for The Washington Post, tries to answer that question. He follows her life from her childhood in the Midwest to her college days at Wellesley to Yale Law School, where she meets Bill Clinton, to Arkansas to the White House and to New York as a U.S. Senator. With Hillary Clinton running for president, Bernstein gives readers another perspective on her personal and public life. In Chapter One, he writes about her family.

Hillary Rodham’s childhood was not the suburban idyll suggested by the shaded front porch and gently sloping lawn of what was once the family home at 235 Wisner Street in Park Ridge, Illinois. In this leafy environment of postwar promise and prosperity, the Rodhams were distinctly a family of odd ducks, isolated from their neighbors by the difficult character of her father, Hugh Rodham, a sour, unfulfilled man whose children suffered his relentless, demeaning sarcasm and misanthropic inclination, endured his embarrassing parsimony, and silently accepted his humiliation and verbal abuse of their mother.

Hugh Rodham, the son of Welsh immigrants, was sullen, tight-fisted, contrarian, and given to exaggeration about his own accomplishments. Appearances of a sort were important to him: he always drove a new Lincoln or Cadillac. But he wouldn’t hesitate to spit tobacco juice through an open window. He chewed his cud habitually, voted a straight Republican ticket, and was infuriatingly slow to praise his children. “He was rougher than a corncob and gruff as could be,” an acquaintance once said. Nurturance and praise were left largely to his wife, whose intelligence and abilities he mocked and whose gentler nature he often trampled. “Don’t let the doorknob hit you in the ass on your way out,” he frequently said at the dinner table when she’d get angry and threaten to leave. She never left, but some friends and relatives were perplexed at Dorothy’s decision to stay married when her husband’s abuse seemed so unbearable.

“She would never say, That’s it. I’ve had it,” said Betsy Ebeling,* Hillary’s closest childhood friend, who witnessed many contentious scenes at the Rodham dinner table. Sometimes the doorknob remark would break the tension and everybody would laugh. But not always.

By the time Hillary had reached her teens, her father seemed defined by his mean edges — he had almost no recognizable enthusiasms or pretense to lightness as he descended into continuous bullying, ill-humor, complaint, and dejection. (*Ebeling is Betsy’s married name. Her maiden name was Johnson.)In fact, depression seemed to haunt the Rodham men. Hugh’s younger brother, Russell, a physician, was the “golden boy” of the three children of Hannah and Hugh Rodham Sr. of Scranton, Pennsylvania. When Russell sank into depression in 1948, his parents asked Hugh to return to Scranton to help. Only hours after his arrival, Russell tried to hang himself in the attic, and Hugh had to cut him down. Afterward, Russell went to Chicago to stay with Hugh, Dorothy, and their baby daughter in their already overcrowded one-bedroom apartment. For months, Russell received psychiatric treatment at the local Veterans Administration hospital. Eventually he moved to a dilapidated walk-up in downtown Chicago, worked as a bartender, and declined into alcoholism and deeper depression until he died, in 1962, in a fire that was caused by a lit cigarette.

Here's an interesting psychoanalysis of HRC:
http://zpub.com/un/hillc.html
The Psychobiography of Hillary Rodham Clinton
by Paul Lowinger
curriculum Vitae, http://zpub.com/un/pl.html

Military Service: Army, 1943-46; U.S.P.H.S., 1949-50, 1953-55
B.S. 1945, Northwestern University
M. D. 1949, State University of Iowa
M. Sc. 1953, State University of Iowa
Internship 1949-50, U. S. Marine Hospital. Staten Island, N. Y.
Psychiatric Residency 1950-1953, Department of Psychiatry, State University of Iowa
Diplomate, Psychiatry 1956, American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology
Instructor, Psychiatry 1953-55, Tulane University, New Orleans
Deputy Chief, Psychiatry l953-55, U. S. Marine Hospital, New Orleans
Associate Professor, Psychiatry 1955-1974, Wayne State University, Detroit
Chief, Adult Outpatient Service 1955-1970, Lafayette Clinic, Detroit
Chief, Psychiatry 1959-1970, Detroit Memorial Hospital
Medical Director l970-1974, Detroit Model Neighborhood Drug Abuse Program
Clinical Professor 1975- 1994, Psychiatry and Community Medicine,
University of California, San Francisco
Lecturer 1983, School of Public Health. University of California, Berkeley
Instructor 1976, Continuing Education, University of California, Santa Cruz
Medical Administrator, Prisoners' Health Project 1974-76, San Francisco
General Hospital
Director, Psychiatric Residency Training 1976-78, Highland General Hospital
Chief, Psychiatry 1982, Merrithew General Hospital, Martinez and Staff,
Community Mental Health, Richmond, CA 1978-1985
Full Time Private Practice, 1985-1992
Retired, 1992

As to being physically abused by her father, the following NYT excerpt was originally posted in the Hillary Clinton group:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/110713163

Revealing, and somewhat disturbing: Hillary Clinton Draws Scrappy Determination From a Tough, Combative Father
"As a little girl, if Hillary Rodham forgot to screw the cap back on the toothpaste, her father would toss the tube out the bathroom window. She’d scurry around in the snow-covered evergreen bushes outside their suburban Chicago home to find it and return inside to brush her teeth, reminded, once again, of one of Hugh E. Rodham’s many rules.

When she lagged behind in Miss Metzger’s fourth-grade math class, Mr. Rodham would wake his daughter at dawn to grill her on multiplication tables. When she brought home an A, he would sneer: 'You must go to a pretty easy school.'

Mrs. Clinton has made the struggles of her mother, Dorothy Rodham, a central part of her 2016 campaign’s message, and has repeatedly described Mrs. Rodham’s life story to crowds around the country. But her father, whom Mrs. Clinton rarely talks about publicly, exerted an equally powerful, if sometimes bruising, influence on the woman who wants to become the first female president.

The brusque son of an English immigrant and a coal miner’s daughter in Scranton, Pa., Mr. Rodham, for most of his life, harbored prejudices against blacks, Catholics and anyone else not like him. He hurled biting sarcasm at his wife and only daughter and spanked, at times excessively, his three children to keep them in line, according to interviews with friends and a review of documents, Mrs. Clinton’s writings and former President Bill Clinton’s memoir."

http://t.co/LxfS5ft51H via NYTimes
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/20/us/politics/hillary-clinton-draws-scrappy-determination-from-a-tough-combative-father.html?_r=0

[Hiraeth]

74. Thank you for posting that. If she were private individual I could have compassion for her.

Seems her demeanor is a self defense mechanism for her neuroses and however one deals is fine but, that does not mean our country and the world need to be told: No, we can't.

I just can't get over that. Real turning point for me. I once thought she would make Bernie a fine VP ... no more.

I don't want that attitude or spirit leading our country.

[Divernan]

76. HRC's dad ran as "Democratic leaning independent" & lost.

Quite ironic that her father once ran as a "Democratic leaning independent" and lost to the Democratic machine. Of course, her father was in pursuit of exploiting his investments - so typically HRC.

Hugh Rodham was a self-described rock-ribbed conservative Republican of the Taft-Goldwater school who despised labor unions, opposed most government aid programs, and fulminated against high taxes. He had tried his hand briefly in politics in 1947 when, as a Democraticleaning independent, he ran for alderman in Chicago. He had wanted to ingratiate himself with, or even become part of, the fabled Democratic machine then being assembled by the young Richard Daley, and be in a position to exploit an investment he’d made in a downtown parking lot. He was swamped in the election by the candidate on the regular Democratic line. Some members of his extended family believe the experience contributed to his strident disdain of Democrats. Every four years, during the Republican National Convention, he would instruct his children to watch the proceedings on television; when the Democrats convened, he ordered the set turned off.

http://www.today.com/id/18984501/ns/today-today_books/t/bernstein-hillary-clintons-ambition/#.VrHxhUCnaDF

[Hiraeth]

81. two things: (edited)

1. The acorn doesn't fall far from the tree.

2. Exodus 34 - Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear [the guilty]; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth [generation].

[senz]

151. Thanks Divernan. You put together a lot of information. It's sad and alarming.

Some people should not have children and this is one of the best reasons no one has the right to force anyone else into parenthood. Some are evil and don't care who they hurt, some know they've been damaged from their own abusive parents, some are just busy, or lack energy, or have chosen a different life script, or simply not interested in raising children. Children need steady reliable love, safety and nurturing. If a person can't provide that, they should forego parenthood, and no one should shame or blame them for making a very responsible decision.

Hugh and Dorothy Rodham had no business having children together. Dorothy might have been okay if she'd married a different sort of man but someone should have stopped Hugh -- if it weren't so hard to interfere in other people's lives.

I do not get the impression that Hillary is healed from her wounds. I think she's still a terribly damaged individual and cannot see anything good for the country from a Hillary presidency. I hope she drops out of the race or loses to Bernie, gets really good help, finds another outlet for her interests, and lives happily ever after.

[grasswire]

173. well, there it is

She's trying to prove herself to her father, and she will not stop.

It's sad. But all of the rest of us should not have to suffer because of her bitter childhood with her father and the mother who wimped out.

We had enough of someone living out childhood dysfunction, with George W.

[arikara]

133. He looked terrible

He shouldn't be trotted all over the place speechifying, he is obviously exhausted and not well.

[840high]

21. Yes he was.

[George II]

30. Indeed he was. Never would I have thought that Trump's campaign was more mature....

....in their loss than the Sanders campaign.

Quite telling.

[Hiraeth]

68. Congratulations, you have just crossed over from irritating to irrelevant.

[A Simple Game]

95. My goodness you are a tolerant person beyond my wildest expectations.

For me that one went past irrelevant months ago.

[Hiraeth]

97. I can understand. and You are right, I am probably too tolerant.

[A Simple Game]

104. No, don't change I was being hyperbolic, you're fine the way you are.

Nothing wrong with tolerance as long as you are vigilant and I see you are.

[Hiraeth]

107. Ah, thanks

[rhett o rick]

101. What is telling is that the Oligarchy will do anything to win. We have seen it all before.

Those with major wealth aren't used to losing and they believe all is fair to win. They hate progressives, they hate People's movements, they want the power.

Real Democrats choose the 99% over the 1%.

[George II]

109. "What is telling is that the Oligarchy will do anything to win" And how is that the case....

...in Iowa?

[rhett o rick]

115. We are faced with an opponent that has unlimited resources and is not used to losing.

We must monitor our election processes even within our Party.

We must get enough votes to overcome the "Margin of Manipulation".

We did show the Oligarchy that we are serious. We are tired of the corrupt culture of Big Money in government.

We are facing a major civil war in our Party of the People vs. the Wealthy 1% Oligarchy.

The People are fighting for health care for our children, decent education, freedom from the oppression of laws geared to incarcerate millions. We are fighting for fair wages and jobs and against the domination of corporations that get stronger every day.

Sadly some Democrats are fighting to retain the current culture of corruption in government brought by the Wealthy 1%.

[madfloridian]

150. Hillary's loud trumpeting of her "win" lacked maturity.

[George II]

153. Well, here is her statement from Monday night:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/02/01/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-iowa-caucuses/79664210/

It wasn't until Tuesday morning that her Campaign issued a release stating that she won.

I'm sure the words she used on Monday night will be dissected and interpreted all sorts of ways, but her statement in Iowa on Monday was NOT a "loud trumpeting of her win".

[jberryhill]

126. True, but he was also a clear second

Can you imagine what he would have come out with if he'd won?

[Hiraeth]

131. Honestly, that question makes me wonder what would Hillary have acted like if she

had been the CLEAR winner ....

and people can say she was all they want but, from where I sit it looks murky to me.

Trump only lost by what ... 3% ... ?

[humbled_opinion]

178. Don't worry she'll say nice things

about Bernie once he is effectively conceded the race and ended his campaign.....

[Hiraeth]

179. is that a promise or a threat?

[SandersDem]

4. One small correction to your wonderful article.

Bernie has now raised $3 million since the Caucuses.

[madfloridian]

10. I just saw that! I got that email around 1 am last night...donated then.

3 million...amazing.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

108. Sweeeeeet!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!

[kath]

5. Another great OP from you. Thanks!

[madfloridian]

168. Thanks for the kind words.

[G_j]

7. great post

You are right on. Thank you

[guillaumeb]

8. How very unreasonable of you to actually expect the Democrats to stand for something besides

GOP-Lite.

Very well said.

[VulgarPoet]

77. Oh but of course as soon as we bring up her voting record to prove it

we get slammed with alerts cause y'know, we're just not supposed to remember any of the atrocities she has voted for, or just believe that such a dyed in the plaid corporatist just spontaneously "evolved" from such views. More like stuck a finger in the air and realized she needed more votes.

[guillaumeb]

116. I believe in evolution.

But evolution is progression. I agree that any politician who is constantly evolving in response to polling can be suspected of pandering to voters.

[tblue37]

9. KnR for visibility. nt

[ReasonableToo]

11. Kick

[FloriTexan]

12. Kick !!

[Zorra]

13. Recommend. nt

[Uncle Joe]

14. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, madfloridian.

[Samantha]

17. Lawrence O'Donnell said this evening we might not know who actually won Iowa until June

I believe that might be true. Yesterday, it was said today we would start finding errors and mistakes in last night's Iowa total, narrow as it was, and there could be corrections. With Sanders calling for the raw data of the vote, it will be interesting to see what comes out in the wash. We have already observed glimmers.

I have become hardened to public comments insulting the left wing of the Democratic party. The only words that really stick with me are those that came from a Republican, no less:

It is confidence in the men and women who administer the judicial system that is the true backbone of the rule of law. Time will one day heal the wound to that confidence that will be inflicted by today's decision. One thing, however, is certain. Although we may never know with complete certainty the identity of the winner of this year's Presidential election, the identity of the loser is perfectly clear. It is the Nation's confidence in the judge as an impartial guardian of the rule of law."

former Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens' dissent opinion in Bush v. Gore, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Paul_Stevens

It is long past time the American people should have confidence in both its government and its elections. For that reason, among others, I am supporting Bernie Sanders for President because I truly believe he can drive this Country to a place where we should have been all along -- in a government which works for all of the people, not just the corporations and super wealthy.

Great thread, madfloridian. Just wanted to add a few additional thoughts for contemplation.

Sam

[madfloridian]

20. Didn't the Iowa Dem party refuse to provide the raw data?

I need to look for where I read that. They said Bernie knew going into the caucus that it would not be provided. Has that been resolved?

Oh that wound referred to by Judge Stevens' isn't healed yet for me. Those 2000 memories are still fresh in my mind.

Time will one day heal the wound to that confidence that will be inflicted by today's decision.

Not yet.

[Samantha]

33. madfloridian: see the article in Latest Breakings News entitled something like:

Iowa's Nightmare revisited: was the correct winner called. Here is a quote from that:

Team Sanders had its own app that allowed supporters and volunteers to send precinct-level results directly to the campaign. At the same time, caucus chairs sent their official results to the state party, either over a specially built Microsoft app or via phone. Sanders aides asked to sit down with the state party to review the paperwork from the precinct chairs, Batrice said.

"We just want to work with the party and get the questions that are unanswered answered," she said.

McGuire, in an interview with the Register, said no.

I too read the raw numbers would not be provided. But Sanders had set up a reporting system from the field to record numbers directly to his campaign. In other words, he had his own record. Reviewing those numbers raised some questions the campaign asked to have answered. The response was a simple "no."

Unbelievable.

Sam

[madfloridian]

34. Thanks, I missed that. She just said no. Yes, it's unbelievable.

They are truly treating him as an outsider.

[senz]

56. They are treating his supporters as outsiders, too.

[winter is coming]

39. Given her obvious affiliation with the Clinton campaign, it's surprising she wouldn't

release the raw data. Not doing so throws her impartiality and integrity into question.

[rhett o rick]

100. Winning is more important to them than appearing fair. DWS has done nothing fair and doesn't

care who knows it. Her reward will be IMO financial wealth.

[Liberty Belle]

53. Could he have grounds to sue, then?

[Samantha]

138. I don't really think so

These caucuses are run by the party, and unless there was something that rose to the level of Election Fraud, I don't think the Sanders' camp would pursue it. If there were a suspicion there was a huge under-reporting of the numbers which would greatly change the outcome and dramatically alter the number of delegates awarded to Sanders, perhaps they would check out their options. If it remains only a minor difference, probably not.

The really good thing that has come from this is there is now no question how the Hillary campaign will be conducting itself, and safeguards for protecting the integrity of the results of each election need to be reinforced.

Maybe someone with more knowledge on this can submit some thoughts on this.

Sam

[senz]

48. I haven't gotten over it either.

It pretty much turned my world upside down and started me down a path of near-constant outrage that didn't end until Obama was elected.

[Bettie]

111. Honestly, they do not have it all yet

Caucus results are recorded on a worksheet, signed by the caucus chair and witnessed by the caucus secretary.

They are generally also verified by the precinct captains for the candidates.

The results are either called in or reported in the App. For our caucus, we ended up calling in as the app wasn't working. My husband was the caucus chair in our Ward.

The actual paperwork is mailed in. There was a snowstorm here on Tuesday and today, a lot of the state is covered in ice. Some of that paperwork may simply not be at the state party offices yet.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

79. A lot of states have automatic recounts for differences less than 0.5% or so, iirc.

Although maybe they never thought about it for the primary, only the general.

[Samantha]

139. States have to have their election law rules clearly defined in the State Constitution

before the election takes place. This is a safeguard against someone jumping in because they didn't like the results of an election and trying to change the state constitution and have new rules retroactively impact the result.

In Florida during the 2000 election, the legislature kept threatening to change the rules and send a Republican slate of electors to the Electoral College should the recount continue and Bush lost the popular vote. The Republican legislature had no constitutional authority to do that if the popular vote showed a Democratic win, but if that had happened, the Electoral College could have disregarded the Florida slate since it did not comport with the law in the state constitution.

Sam

[Autumn]

18. I have so gotten over being a democrat. I was shocked at how easy it was, I told my

Husband that I can't even say I'm a recovering Democrat. It's just gone.

[Fuddnik]

37. I only came back to being a Democrat so I can vote for Bernie in the primary.

And I didn't leave the party in 2007 on a whim. I had been a congressional candidate, managed Democratic congressional campaigns and worked as senior staff in local and state campaigns.

I had Debbie Weaselman-Schlitz endorse our Republican opponent after we beat their favored DLC candidate by 10 pts in the primary. Watched Rahm Emmanuel screw over several candidates in Florida.

I've never voted for a Republican in my life, except for a few who had a (D) after their name. It ain't happening again. Ever.

[Autumn]

38. Bernie's the only reason I re registered as one. After I caucus here in CO I'm out again.

I'm with you It ain't happening again. Ever.

[Mbrow]

73. My wife and I ran into the same

issues when we were living in San diego when Bill was elected. we left the party behind or should I say it left us behind then. We felt there was no one looking out for us or any other working people. All the smaller groups, DSA, Green, ETC just felt ineffective. When we moved to Idaho we fell back in the Dems but what a bunch of REPUG lights..... looking forward to Bernie being Prez.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

80. The Winslow?

Is The Winslow one of the standard avatars, or did you bring it in from offsite by being a star member?

[Mbrow]

85. I brought it with.

When I first joined I thought this was a place worth donating to so I did the star thing and kept it up.I don't post much Just read a lot. I do like the BSN. All hail the church of the Slag-Blah.

[arikara]

135. She endorsed a republican opponent?

After seeing that list of ceo's running the third way in the op, how can anyone believe they are real Democrats? What it looks like to me is that they hijacked the Democratic party after the republicans got too crazy even for them.

[A Simple Game]

102. I left the party 20 or 25 years ago and just came back to vote for Bernie in the primary.

I may stay if Bernie wins but will definitely go back to unaffiliated if Hillary wins the primaries and then loses the general. I just can't see her winning the general, she has too much baggage.

If as I predict she loses the general I expect a mass exodus from the Democratic party.

Signed: A Dino from the left

[99th_Monkey]

19. "The trick is to harness their energy & money w/out looking like you're captive to the activis left"

Asholes.

[cui bono]

22. I get why the politicians and bankers want to be centrist.

It's in their best interest.

But I don't get why average Americans buy into it. Here on DU I'm convinced most of the vocal conservatives are operatives because they can't talk policy and they don't stand by any principles. They just hurl insults and rah rah for their chosen ones. But there has to be a good amount of the average American who is just taking what's given to them without thinking about it. I hope that the youth changes that since they are not tied to getting their information from corporate media. I hope that can break the chain.

.

[Peace Patriot]

64. I began to realize that a youth revolution was about to happen...

... when my son told me that he and his friends got all of their political information from John Stewart. And they had pretty good information, it seemed to me. This was some years ago, before Occupy and before Bernie's youth revolution. What I realize now is that my son and his friends--who are very smart, very high tech young people--COULDN'T take the 'mainstream' political garbage on TV seriously. They laughed at it. They loved John Stewart because he made fun of it, too--and so brilliantly! As for newspapers...meh. They had no interest whatsoever.

So they were INFERRING political information from what they laughed at. And none of them ended up cynical. They were laughing at how absurd it all was, how out of touch, how weird and distorted, and were forming their own views, by implication, as the opposite of absurd, out of touch, weird and distorted.

That is NOT how I became politically informed. I grew up in an era when politics was a civic duty, expressed throughout society, for instance, with serious news shows on TV deliberately separated from commercial interests, with "equal time" laws for use of our public airwaves--policies derived from the Fairness Doctrine, that also influenced print media to be FAIR--and with active, grass roots organizations within the Democratic Party that greatly influenced outcomes, and with CIVICS taught in ALL schools, with strong labor unions that also did public education, and more.

Our kids grew up in a different world, one in which all of these good civic things have been nearly destroyed--no more fairness in the media, no more need of our Democratic leaders to develop--let alone listen to--grass roots Democrats, civics no longer taught, and little or no reason for our kids to get involved, because THEIR issues, and the issues of most Americans, were simply never addressed by the powers-that-be, in the Corporate/Billionaire political show. Instead, utter idiocy has been the norm--denying climate change, for godssakes, promotion of complete numbskulls like Sarah Palin and Bush Jr., failing to hold complete criminals like Cheney and Rumsfeld to any account whatsoever, and on and on.

So the young turned to John Stewart for RELIEF, and also, I think, for some comfort that the adult world was not completely insane.

Anyway, that was my clue to what is happening now--the rebellion of the young against the insanity, and thievery, and lies, and massive crimes, of our political establishment that we have all been living with for much too long. PLUS, they have the internet now, where they can create their own news sources and, in fact, run their own campaigns!

It is a beautiful thing to behold. And thank you, John Stewart, for saving a generation of young people in the interim!

[Spitfire of ATJ]

23. Be glad nobody is calling Martin O'Malley a "spoiler" like Nader.

[malthaussen]

114. Ironically, in Iowa...

... despite his unfortunate showing, he may well have been a "spoiler," because it is unlikely his supporters would have split 50/50 between Mr Sanders and Mrs Clinton. A few extra votes for Mr Sanders, and the Clinton forces would have a whole different tale to spin.

-- Mal

[jham123]

127. agreed

wholeheartedly with that assertion.

There were even stories about how in a 50/50 split netting both Clinton and Bernie 2 delegates each, 28 voters went over to caucus with MoM on purpose as that would make it 2 delegates for Clinton and 1 each for Bernie and MoM

Clinton gets a net gain.

[bbgrunt]

24. once again, thanks for a great piece mad. k and r!

[senz]

25. DLC/Third Way kept identity politics while opening the door to economic predators.

We need to either reclaim the Democratic Party as the party of working people (as opposed to the ownership class) as well as minorities, or start a party to carry on the older, better tradition of social and economic justice.

Anyone who says you can't have both is not to be trusted.

Bernie is leading the way. Hillary is now (roughly) following Bernie, but her actions speak louder than her brand new words. "Fighting for Us," coming from her, is a joke.

[hifiguy]

158. Your first sentence is purest gold.

Absolutely the effin' truth. Trickle down elitists who can grudgingly tolerate some reproductive rights and the GLBT folks and think the Jebus junkies are uncouth and gauche. But plutocrats and royalists to a person.

[senz]

162. Thanks, hifiguy.

You are always so nice.

[mountain grammy]

26. not much left to say, except K&R

I'll go to bed now because this is the best thing I've read tonight and don't want anything to spoil it.

[AtomicKitten]

27. Bernie/we must be scaring the bejeezus out of the corporations/billionaire class.

And it is delightful!

k/r

[nolabels]

62. Personally i could give a rats ass what the hell they think

Together WE are all now getting together to take back our Democracy and Country, nothing going to stop us

[MrMickeysMom]

28. Just like the party of Lincoln hasn't resembled itself in decades, 3rd Way DLCs turned their backs..

I couldn't agree more with this post, mad...

Bernie may have an I after his name, but he's one of the best and strongest Democrats I've ever seen.

It's hard to recognize a party that turns its back on democratic values, and has merged SO MUCH to the right. Dean finally succumbing to the latest buzz word I've seen for weeks indicating we've always done best in a pragmatic way, just turned my stomach. This is the Democratic party, damn it... And he used to be proud to say he was a member of the democratic wing of the Democratic party. What? Now we're somehow all supposed to be fitted for our nose rings?

Come on!

[hedda_foil]

40. I think he decided to come in from the cold.

Hillary was the only "real" candidate, having scared off everyone else but Bernie (who no one actually thought was capable of getting to first base) and O'Malley, who was perceived as running for VP. So Howard threw in with Hillary to get a job that whould enable him to make a difference.

I don't know if this is really the case but it works for me.

[Armstead]

29. K&R

[PoiBoy]

31. Excellent post...!!

You make many great points...

Thank you for your post..!!

[Blue_In_AK]

32. Excellent post as always, MadFlo.

[Paka]

35. K&R

This time, the left must prevail. It's way past time.

[Warren DeMontague]

36. "you did your job"- EXACTLY. And we all remember what happened next, right?

We had an entire fucking year of "town hall" dithering over health care, which did nothing except give an opportunity for every mushmouthed nut with a tricorner hat to stand up in front of a tv camera and blargle yargle bargle blarg.

Heavens! Well, we can't be hasty, here. We only have a clear majority in both houses of congress AND the White House, and a mandate from the voters. Heaven fucking FORFEND we should actually use it.. tick tock, tick tock, tick tock..."oh, it's 2010 already, how did that happen?"

Derp.

[madfloridian]

44. Yep, they just kept preaching "bipartisanship."

And we lost Congress.

[Warren DeMontague]

58. why, it was almost like some of them were uncomfortable without a divided congress as an excuse NOT

to do anything.

Ah, but obviously I must be in territory, here.

....

[ChiciB1]

41. THANKS For This Great POST... Kicking To get Back To It! n/t

[Luminous Animal]

42. I love you.

[madfloridian]

43. Back at you...

[zentrum]

45. When you're right, you're right!

HRC supporters in 2008 called us Obamabots.

[Jack Rabbit]

50. Thank you

To simply say that Hillary won, period, end of discussion does not capture what happened yesterday and probably does a greater disservice to Hillary Clinton than anyone else. I hope her staff is giving her better input than are the residents of DU's Camp Weathervane.

Around Christmas, it appeared Mrs. Clinton would win Iowa easily. She didn't. While she technically won, it was in no way a convincing win. She won the way the British won at Bunker Hill or American ground forces in Vietnam won the Tet Offensive. It is perfectly fair to say that Senator Sanders scored a moral victory that is more impressive than was winning two more delegates than Bernie won among the 44 being contested. That moral victory is what we Sandernistas celebrated today, not our "defeat" as one particularly boorish fellow from Camp Weathervane put it on another thread.

A month ago Hillary was inevitable. Tonight she is not. In April, when he announced his candidacy, Bernie Sanders was a fringe candidate and not taken seriously. Last night he demonstrated that he is a force to reckoned with both now and in November, when he will crush the last GOP clown standing.

The wheels are coming off of Mrs. Clinton's campaign. I would like to give the residents of Camp Weathervane some friendly (yes, sincerely friendly) advice. This is not the time for false bravado or whistling past the graveyard. This is the time to evaluate what has gone wrong with Mrs. Clinton's campaign and how it can be fixed. It takes cool judgment and clear thinking. You can't do that and hate us Sandernistas or our candidate at the same time. The only thing we did is demonstrate that there's very convincing evidence of an anti-establishment movement in the Democratic Party, proving the Jon Cowan, the founder of The Third Way who said otherwise, is a fool. Maybe that upsets some of you, but that's not our fault. Instead of taking it out on us, take it out on Mr. Cowan, the fool who said that there was no evidence that Democrats like us feel the way we do about idiots like him, and stop taking seriously position papers from his corrupt Wall Street funded think tank. That will help your candidate a lot.

[madfloridian]

184. I think Jon Cowan started the Bernie wants fantasy stuff meme.

I forgot to bookmark the article. All this stuff about his goals being unrealistic.

[merrily]

51. Now, Bernie has a (D) after his name, not an (I).

Despite a lot of bs, the DNC does not allow anyone to participate in Democratic Presidential debates who is not, at that time, a Democrat, whether it's former Republicans Chafee, Clinton and Webb, or former independent Sanders. And no, LMAO, it's not because DWS is just too nice to say no to Bernie Sanders.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/128018753

[Juicy_Bellows]

52. Excellent post. You smashed it! Nt.

[madfloridian]

55. Ooops! Correction: Tim Kaine did not become DNC chair until 2009.

I have no idea why I put 2006...Dean was chair then.

[Dustlawyer]

86. Dean did a great job when he was head of the DNC. Unfortunately, Dean has now sold out!

It is a crime that they can buy off our leaders like they do. Dean is not in office so I don't have as much of an issue as if he was a politician, but he has been a stalwart in Progressive circles. To have him go to the dark side was very depressing. People don't realize how much freakin money is floating around D.C.!

[Ligyron]

90. Still, at one time the Chairperson was elected.

Didn't know that as apparently now they are appointed and rule by Divine Right. no pun intended.

[Dretownblues]

57. Nailed it! Thanks for the post

[californiabernin]

59. kick

[DisgustipatedinCA]

60. As usual, you've written a really good post. Thanks, madfloridian. nt

[JDPriestly]

61. K&R. I have said many times that I will vote for every Democrat

on my ballot except Clinton. I know the Democrats running for lower-level federal and state offices. I may not always agree with them, but they are not arrogant and condescending toward questioning liberals like me.

Hillary thinks she can run things without people like me. It's all about the "I" for her. She tells us that it's all about compromising on issues, that we have to compromise on the issues, that that is the only way to get things done. At least that is what she says. In reality, we cannot compromise on issues of great moral importance. Racism, matters of great economic importance to large numbers of Americans like jobs, union rights, women's rights, children's rights and issues like a woman's right to choose and healthcare for all. There is a long list with racist laws, racist prison and racist policing especially at the local level at the top of the list with women's issues and seniors' issues coming in a close second. These things cannot, I repeat cannot be compromised. There is a moral imperative.

You can work around Republican recalcitrance. But you cannot accept the repugnant. We have done that too long. We have to speak out against injustice and change the laws that permit it.

[Bohunk68]

83. AYUP. Or as we used to say in the Navy: Fucking "A" ditty bag.

Ahhh, JD and Madfloridian, and merrily and soooo many others. You help me keep my post total down by what you post. So in agreement with y'all. MUWAH

[raouldukelives]

65. Spot on. There are people who want to care for the least among us.

And there are those who only care for the most among us.

Our battle is to try and convince the moderates in our own party that the least in our world deserve, for once, as much of a voice as they willingly and proudly give to the most day in and day out.

[corkhead]

66. Hopefully we'll be finished rebuilding the party from the ground up before President Cruz's 2nd term

or before we're ground up.

[grntuscarora]

67. K&R

[Mbrow]

69. Another great post!

Thanks.

[SusanCalvin]

70. Rec to the moon!

[Enthusiast]

71. Kicked and recommended! Brilliant! Thank you, madfloridian!

Now that we see through a smokescreen comprised entirely of bullshit (bullshit screen?) what will happen next?

If Hillary somehow manages to win the nomination I do not see how she goes on to win the general election.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

78. I've been hearing the 'cult' and 'cult leader' accusations

even from a close friend who seems to have decided Bernie Sanders will 'harm' AAs. Based on what, I have no clue, since he's never had any more history of 'harming' AA's than any other white politician, through neglect. And he does seem to be willing to pay attention now, and has met with leading activists, and has plans to meet with them again to keep moving the policy goals forward that they advocate. HRC, on the other hand, has a long history of actions, speeches, and votes that have advanced policies that have devastated AA communities. No number of photo-ops and charity actions outweighs the damage she's perpetuated.

[DamnYankeeInHouston]

84. There is only one woman?! Bet they're all pigment challenged, too.

[Tom Rinaldo]

87. Enthusiastic K&R eom

[Festivito]

88. Afraid to lose their 6 and 7 figure salaries and their inheritor class wealth to their lessers.

Still thinking they are doing "the good." They're not.

Those other people are at their heels and with more money they will be climbing up their backs.

They like the way things are right now.

[democrank]

89. Excellent post once again

Thanks so much.

[Nitram]

91. Clinton won. Bernie lost.

Yes, it was very, very close. But Clinton won. Bernie lost. That's the way it works guys. When Bernie wins in NH, you'll have your day. Stop obsessing on your loss and look ahead to the next few primaries. It's not the end o the world.

[islandmkl]

92. do you cut & paste your response to every post?...because it appears your reply

has nothing to do with the OP....

[Nitram]

96. Island, your failed attempt at snark is pathetic. The OP wrote...

"...instead of loudly proclaiming victory when the totals for the candidates were only .2% apart, it would be more gracious to acknowledge a worthy opponent for a little while as well as mentioning his supporters enthusiasm. It would not hurt the winner, and it would ease the way for hard feelings to soften."

I merely pointed out that Clinton's campaign and her supporters are rightly pleased about a victory in the first primary. The OP finds fault with that. I don't think that's fair.

By the way, I wonder if you saw the irony of accusing me of "cutting and pasting" when the OP admits to doing exactly that in his post?

[islandmkl]

117. well...i have been smacked back...however, you seem to be overly paranoid to think I 'accused' you..

unless, as some are wont to be, you feel any query an accusation...and you merely made a blanket response to the OP on a small section of the full post...I guess I was 'merely' wondering if you read the whole post and absorbed its main thrust...

[Nitram]

120. Much as I appreciate your concern for my ability to "absorb its main thrust"...

... I can't help but wish you were a bit more honest about your own rather nasty attack, quoted in full below.

"...do you cut & paste your response to every post?...because it appears your reply has nothing to do with the OP...."

[rhett o rick]

106. Clinton won 2 more national delegates than Sanders. The big winner was the People that

are standing up to the Oligarchy and demanding a fair and honest government.

[colsohlibgal]

93. It is Iowa

Not what a rational mind would see as a liberal leaning state. And Bernie came within a cat's hair from winning. With DSM and her DLC types running the debate schedule, with MSNBC ignoring Bernie most of the way, with the deep pockets of Wall Street pitching in multiple millions to Hillary.

Let us see how close Hillary comes to Bernie in New Hampshire, with a lot of factors in Bernie's favor.

And.... I remain startled that HLC's supporters are fine with the democrats being now what republicans used to be 40 some years ago. The whole political baseline has moved straight right but they seem to not have noticed.

[Ligyron]

94. Excellent post as usual Mad.

People like you in our state certainly proves we don't deserve the Flori-duh label anymore.

[nyabingi]

98. Great post and info

I think the left of the Democratic Party (the base) is sick and tired of being stomped on and being taken for granted by people who are only interested in profits and elevating the interests of the one percenters.

I say let these "centrist" types and Third Way people go back to the Republican Party where they truly belong.

[Nanjeanne]

99. Great Post - I have been registered as a Democrat

for 45 years. But I stopped giving money to the Party a long long time ago. I keep my designation as a badge of honor for what the Democratic Party once was.

My money over the last 15 years or so has gone directly to candidates across the country that I believe in.

In 2008 I joined and worked for Obama and the OFA - until he gave up on the public option and then I dropped out - and when I spoke with our local OFA office found that many did the same thing for the same reason I did.

With Sanders - I feel hope again.

With Clinton - I feel depressed.

I like feeling hopeful. I'll stick with Sanders.

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[rhett o rick]

103. Great post, thanks. We must get enough votes to overcome the margin of manipulation.

I think the Sanders supporters ought sit on the doorstep of Iowa's Democrat leadership until they get answers.

[Punkingal]

105. Spot on, as always!

I am in awe of you!

[George II]

110. As a matter of fact, what you say here isn't true:

"instead of loudly proclaiming victory when the totals for the candidates were only .2% apart, it would be more gracious to acknowledge a worthy opponent for a little while as well as mentioning his supporters enthusiasm. It would not hurt the winner, and it would ease the way for hard feelings to soften."

You should double check what she said on Monday night.

[SammyWinstonJack]

113. What happens if Bernie gets the nom., will the Dem party

abandon him or support him?

[BillZBubb]

119. They will support him for the most part.

But party leaders will try to undercut his message, like Pelosi already did concerning taxes.

[BillZBubb]

118. The left really doesn't have a home in the Democratic party any more.

What used to be center left is now the "far left". Ideas that used to be central to the Democratic ideal are now "Never going to happen".

That said, for the left, the Democrats are still the only viable option for attaining some of our goals even if only partially. The republicans want to rip apart anything that is good, decent and fair. The barbarians really are at the gates, so we have no alternative but to make alliance with the center-right Democratic party.

[RoccoR5955]

121. Here Here!

The Third Way needs to learn that they not only have to be nice to their opponents of the RepubliCON Party, but those in the Democratic Party, who do not endorse their candidate in the primaries, if they seek our support on the chance that she should win and become the nominee.
Iowa proved that Clinton is not inevitable.


#FeelTheBern!

[malthaussen]

122. I'll feel more comfortable when Mr Sanders picks up a few more marginalized demos.

He aced the youth vote. Knocked it out of the park. It wasn't even close. But it was also not quite enough to tip the scales. If Mr Sanders wants to be the Dem nominee, he needs to keep his hold on these demographics, while garnering some portion of ones which so far have not had the opportunity to express preference. I'm sure he and his team are aware of this, and I'll be interested to see how they go about harvesting what they need to get over the top.

-- Mal

[Jefferson23]

123. Third Way is accepting of corporate money and by extension has protected them, not

the average American. If Sanders can run a campaign without that money,
why can't Clinton? Why would a voter who has not benefited from said
policies continue to support her? One would need to have their head in the
sand not to see the quid quo pro all these years. Why are her supporters
pretending money in politics is not a poison?

Denying reality makes one doomed to repeat it:

Mapping Max Baucus’ Health Care Lobbyist Complex. Click image for full visualization.

As the chair of the Senate Finance Committee, Sen. Max Baucus is at the center of the congressional effort to craft health care reform legislation, a top priority of President Barack Obama. The Baucus-headed Finance Committee has been singled out by advocates and news organizations as the toughest obstacle for the President’s health care priorities. Containing more moderate and conservative members may not be the only reason. The committee is packed with lawmakers who have close ties to the health care and insurance industries, receiving large campaign contributions as their former staffers turn around to lobby for the very interests whose issues — in this case health care — they previously worked on. Baucus, as chair, stands out in particular.

Lobbying disclosure filings for the first quarter of 2009 reveal that five of Baucus’ former staffers currently work for a total of twenty-seven different organizations that are either in the health care or insurance sector or have a noted interest in the outcome. The organizations represented include some of the top lobbying organizations in the health sector: Pharmaceutical Manufacturers and Researchers of America (PhRMA), America’s Health Insurance Plans (AHIP), Amgen, and GE Health Care.
http://sunlightfoundation.com/tools/2009/healthcare_lobbyist_complex/

When her campaign says, Bernie is not realistic, do they understand that message
is a clear signal they are not willing to represent the American people without
special interest money?

[yodermon]

125. "The trick will be to harness their energy and their money without looking like you are a captive of

the activist left."

just damn.

[madfloridian]

165. That really got to me badly.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

177. That's always the thing, though.

They want the lefties to sit down, shut up, give their crappy RW candidates money and votes. They want Sanders to be a sheepdog, who gets his followers to simply line up and vote straight Dem when November rolls around, without them even having to bother to promise anything in exchange for those votes.

[staggerleem]

128. Love your first paragraph!

"First off, the meme that we supporters of Bernie Sanders and Bernie Sanders himself are not Democratic enough really needs to stop. It's ridiculous and it's harmful to the party's future success."

It's also absolutely projection, because, as MadFlo's OP illustrates, the fact of the matter is that the Big-D Democratic Party is not little-d democratic enough for Senator Sanders & his supporters.

[GoneOffShore]

129. Despite her smarts there's more than a hint of Dunning-Kroeger about HRC

Plus some serious narcissism.

[wordpix]

130. same for local politics and Dem town committees

as for mine, I was asked to run for a local position and I agreed. Then, without consultation, I was removed from the slate of candidates. Turns out I was too controversial for the majority Blue Dog Dems in our DTC nominating committee, who did not consult with the larger committee as a whole. I'm a progressive activist-environmentalist, and I'm outspoken.

We hashed out this and other issues at our DTC meeting last night.

BTW, our local candidates lost badly for the most part in that election, our latest. The only people who got on boards and commissions were the "minority candidates." In my New England town, that means Dems and not African Americans or Hispanics, etc.

So the "moderates" on our DTC executive were completely wrong in their strategy ---not running candidates who could take away votes from incumbents or "shoo-ins," who did not get voted in, anyhow, and not running candidates who've been involved in controversial issues (me).

"Moderates" don't get it that shying away from controversy means no one knows such candidates. I'm well known on the local level bc I've helped lots of people in various parts of town with my conservation fight power.

[madfloridian]

132. They have been interfering in FL politics for ages now.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4588159

[truedelphi]

166. Sorry that was your experience. The entire political system is designed to

Favor the Elite, and that means keeping the controversial and life-changing activists off the ballot.

Over the past five years, I have had to fight just to phone bank for one "D" candidate I liked. I was not willing to buy into having to spend 90% of my time fawning with the Party local leaders over Hillary, as everyone who was more welcomed into the phone banking process was willing to do. (I found this especially egregious, as Hillary was secretary of State at the time - who else has ever been offered to us as someone to fawn over while they were Secretary of State?)

When I ran for City Council when living in the SF Bay area, the Party only let people who Di Feisntein approved of get any support from the Democrats. Since City of Sausalito makes city council candidates eschew any party labels, that was not a big deal.

[UglyGreed]

136. K/R

[Ivan Kaputski]

140. That turd way board of trustees list is all I need to know.

Completely damning of the 'establishment' Democratic party. It really is all about the oligarchy. Bernie is the last stand against them. If he doesn't win the primary the war is over and the oligarchy will have won.

[Jean Genie]

146. ba-a-a-a-a-a!

So the MSM, and DWS, and HRC, and all those center-right democrats and pundits are having their say all over the tube now. Hillary won. Okay. It wasn't a huge win - and it might even be a dishonest win - but ...okay. Now what? It's early in the game, and Bernie has some pretty darn loyal supporters out here in the middle class. But who the heck are we? Young people who want free tuition - which they'll end up paying for until they're sixty - according to the droll Joe-What's-His-Name (the one who looks like he's wearing a very ratty toupee) on CNBC. Or old people who were probably hippies back in the day, and still subscribe to that Simon-and-Garfunkle feel-goodness we experienced back in the sixties (as did that socialist Bernie, I guess).

The sensible, pragmatic people, like Andrea "Mrs. Greenspan" Mitchell - who must most certainly be a feminist and not have gotten a leg-up in her career by being wife of the former Fed Chair - or the feminist Mika B., whose daddy's political clout did not at all help her to land a lucrative role as resident feminist on "Morning Joke," all agree that it is practically demanded of all Democrats, especially all female Democrats, that we jump on the Hillary bandwagon and send our girl to the White House. Because, isn't it time for a woman to be in charge of this country? Like Margaret Thatcher was in Great Britain? Proof positive that possession of a vagina does not automatically make one a laudable public servant.

But of course when the super PACs really kick in, and we small-change Bernie contributors can't manage to keep up with the largess of the big pharma-banker-hedge fund-defense contractor-Wall Street crowd, their acolytes the Main Stream Media will tell us to stop being such silly little dreamers, be grateful for the few crumbs the moneyed class might be willing to toss our way and for goodness sake get behind Hillary, for she is our one true hope.

I'm sorry, but Hillary is not my one true hope. I will not be told that I must get in line and support the Democratic candidate whoever he/she might be. I am not some sheep to be lead to my own demise. Oh my goodness! If you don't vote for the Democrat, whoever it might be, you are actually voting for the Republican, whoever he might be. You could actually help put Donald Trump, or one of those sons-of-immigrants into the White House. How could you do that? Have we not all heard that argument? Have we not seen the political cartoon chiding us for refusing to vote if our preferred candidate does not get the nomination? The one with a "thank you" from Donald Trump for enabling him to become our President?

I've thought long and hard about this. How often have we had to "hold our nose and vote?" Choose the lesser of two evils (or weevils if you happen to be Captain Jack Aubrey)? I've decided that this time I will not be cowed, sheeped, or goaded (goated?) into voting for the candidate of choice of the Democratic party. It is abundantly clear that all too many so-called Democrats are into the pockets of the wealthy, just as are far too many Republicans. But they get us to keep on voting for their crappy candidates with the old "it's imperative to stand with your party" party line. Bullshit! When one party is as self-serving and disingenuous as the other, there's hardly enough difference to make a difference. No, I don't want to see Donald Trump become our President. Or Ted "Holier-Than-Thou" Cruz, or the youngster from Florida who reminds me of Ricky Ricardo from the old "I Love Lucy" show (yes, I know his name's Marc Rubio). But neither do I want to see Hilary become President, just because she has a vagina, and it's her turn because she's so qualified, and she's the pragmatic best-we-can-expect" candidate. I WANT BERNIE TO BE OUR PRESIDENT! I feel like we are looking at a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to be a responsible, decent country; not the big-business, war-mongering horror that we have become. We can fix our infrastructure, restore our education system, open our arms to the less-fortunate, give of our time, and of ourselves, to help make this the country it can and ought to be. Obviously Bernie is one man, and cannot do it all himself. Those who disdain his words and act like he's a will-o-the-wisp airy-fairy living in La-La Land simply haven't been paying attention. If his "revolution" is to happen, we must ALL be part of it. If we're too scared/busy/lazy/indifferent to be part of the change we wish to see, then so be it. In the final analysis, people get the kind of government they deserve. And so, although I have been a Democrat for forty years, and have devoted long hours to working at the polls for a long time, come November 2016, UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES will I vote for Hillary Clinton!

[stage left]

147. K&R

Bernie made a good showing in Iowa. Two tenths of a percent is a win, not a landslide.

[Ferd Berfel]

148. If that cabal of Investment Bankers are DEMOCRATS then the Party is over.

Calling them Democrats is Orwellian.

I could never count myself among THAT crowd.

[madfloridian]

154. Wm Greider says trouble started when party abandoned the working class. He's so right.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5813212

Long ago, the party abandoned its working-class base (of all colors) and steadily distanced itself from the unglamorous conditions that matter most in people’s lives. Traditional party bulwarks like organized labor and racial minorities became second-string players in the hierarchy that influences party policy. But the Dems didn’t just lose touch with the people they claimed to speak for; they betrayed core constituencies and adopted pro-business, pro-finance policies that actively injure working people.

The shift away from the people was embraced most dramatically when Bill Clinton’s New Democrats came to power in the 1990s. Clinton double-crossed labor with NAFTA and subsequent trade agreements, which encouraged the great migration of manufacturing jobs to low-wage economies. Clinton’s bank deregulation shifted the economic rewards to finance and set the stage for the calamity that struck in 2008. Wall Street won; working people lost. Clinton presided over the financialization of the Democratic Party. Obama merely inherited his playbook and has governed accordingly, often with the same policy-makers.

“The people,” of course, are still present in the party, but they’re treated mainly as data for election strategies. The voters themselves resemble the supernumeraries in a grand opera: they appear on stage at election time, always lavishly praised by the pols. But they are given no lines to speak or songs to sing.

[snagglepuss]

159. Great post. You've knocked it out of the park.

[hifiguy]

163. The saddest name on that list is Thurgood Marshall, Jr.

Thurgood Senior was a great man who did great things. I bet he would be so proud of his son and namesake, the sellout.

[blackspade]

167. Always a K&R for you!

[PatrynXX]

169. the "Hillary DU Group" probably is the best hope for the Right. :(

They don't like what you have to say. BANNED. okay she doesn't want my vote thats what they are saying. Really dumb if you ask me.

[madfloridian]

170. Since the racism, sexism stuff is being pushed by Hillary surrogates...they must not need my vote.

I am sure they don't want the vote of someone they keep calling names like that.

I have never seen anything like the hatred directed toward Bernie and us.

It is NOT deserved at all.

[Angry Dragon]

171. very good OP

[Wilms]

174. ^

[bvar22]

175. DURec # 386.

Again, well done, madfloridian.

You have skills.

[madfloridian]

181. When bvar22 says nice things to me....

I celebrate because of his good work.