What Drives The Extreme Racial Division Between Clinton & Sanders Voters?

[KittyWampus]

After appearing across Iowa for months it can't be argued Sanders suffered from a lack of name recognition:


'among the 9 percent of non-white Democratic caucus-goers in Iowa on Monday, Clinton won by a wide margin, 58-34 percent"

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/schisms-carve-iowa-contests-leaving-murky-political-calculus/story?id=36656482

A fellow DU'er posted about the breakdown of age demographics but I didn't see a thread discussing racial demographics from Iowa.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1125317

[merrily]

1. IMO, careful, calculated cultivation.

[AtomicKitten]

24. It's tactical propaganda.

[merrily]

31. Yes, that, too.

[GoneFishin]

204. Yep. I can't believe people fall for it.

[jonestonesusa]

2. Concern trolling - it makes the internet great!

Clinton won non-white Dems by 22%. Another way to say this is 34% of Dems of color voted for Sanders. I don't care to do the research, but I bet that's a very significant increase over what we would have predicted in the early fall. I would encourage some recognition and respect for people of color who vote for Sanders.

[Gentledove]

138. Ok

OK, mucho respect! <3

[Gentledove]

140. ?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/10/13/bernie-sanderss-big-black-voter-problem/

Why would this EVER be? Bernie was marching for civil rights while Hillary was stumping for pro-segregation Goldwater. Granted people can change, but Bernie has consistently been an advocate for those being treated unfairly. Why would he be disrespected by black voters?

33 million from Soros (staunch Hillary supporter) and more from Wall Street donors to Black Lives Matter?

[msongs]

3. extreme racial division sounds like an extreme description of the issue nt

[elias49]

69. Exactly. It's only a premise the the OP's author.

And I don't accept it. Nice effort to 'lead the witness'.

[GoneFishin]

205. Yep. It's a variation on push polling.

[LexVegas]

4. Speaking for myself, don't trust him. Never will. nt

[Warren DeMontague]

5. ...Any particular reason?

just curious.

[LexVegas]

8. I've been pandered to long enough to know when its sincere.

He will never overcome this impression with the large majority of minorities. South Carolina will be cold reality. Just my .02.

[JudyM]

14. What about the fact that he staged Chicago's first anti segregation sit-in, like 50 years ago?

He has been fighting racial injustice since before he ever ran for office.

[uponit7771]

20. THIS

... is one of the reason why so many PoC feel condescended to

[JudyM]

21. Wow, ok, I missed it. What?

[AgingAmerican]

72. Weird

Condescended towards because Sanders has a long record on civil rights issues?

Weird

[Ken Burch]

126. What is so terrible about offering proof that Bernie gets it?

That he never has been weak on anti-racist issues?

If you were anti-racist 50 years ago, you always will be anti-racist.

Especially if, unlike some people, you never had any compromises or betrayals on your anti-racist, anti-oppression record in all the decades since.

(betrayals such as playing a leading a role in forming a right-wing organization that took over the Democratic Party and pushed it to leave racist slurs about POC totally unchallenged-as HRC did when she helped found the DLC and wholeheartedly endorsed its agenda of collectively associating blackness with crime and welfare fraud).

The civil rights stuff was presented because it showed that Bernie had been there for a long time.

If HRC had anything remotely like that in her past, HER supporters would have presented it here.

Why is it condescending to prove that a man has been a passionate anti-racist for decades?

Why is it an attack on POC to point out that the other leading Dem candidate-a rich white candidate-was badly compromised on racial justice?

What were we suppose to do?

Were we supposed to call for Bernie's withdrawal from the race because HRC began talking about fighting institutional racism in 2015, for the first time in her career, when she had never given a damn about it before?

It's bullshit to act like defending your candidate from a completely unfounded slur is somehow offensive-or that critiquing another candidate is somehow an attack on groups supporting the candidate.

Bernie has proven he is more anti-racist and more anti-oppression than HRC. All she is better at is schmoozing and retail politics.

All his supporters agree, I think(and so does the candidate himself)that he should have spoken about institutional racism in the stump speech from the get-go. But it's in every one of his speeches now. And in a way that is clearly dilineated from the economic agenda. That was his only real failing on this, and it's now addressed.

[kristopher]

129. SMACK! That's gonna leave a mark. nt

[Gentledove]

131. The Race issue

I agree Ken. Hillary lost the black vote to President Obama last time and I think she has done everything financially possible to tie it up this time.
Bernie has marched with Dr Martin Luther King. He was jailed for anti-racism protests. I think turning Black people against Bernie has been the most difficult thing for me to stomach regarding Hillary.
I simply don't trust her and am consequently considering voting for Rubio instead of her should he get the nomination.
Really, Hillary does sound good (sure, she sounds just like Bernie now, right?), but when I examine what she has actually done (Iraq, Libya, backing her husband's rescinding of Glass -Steagall, backing GATT, NAFTA, and pushing hard for mandatory minimum imprisonment and other so-called reforms, taking money from wealthy donors) I find it sooo hard to believe her! There is a credibility gap I'm finding it difficult to bridge.
I have no idea what it would take to convince me, (who voted for President Obama twice) that she really does place our interests first. I know I am not the only Democrat with these concerns.

[Ken Burch]

132. I hear you. But please, angry as you might be after Philly...DON'T vote Rubio.

He is not safe or neutral.

Like Nixon in '68, he just looks saner than his main primary rival by comparison. But it's ONLY in comparison.

[uponit7771]

186. Because proffering bonafides that has nothing to do with the topic at hand suggest a red herring

... vs an addressing of what the person position is.

The reply that I'm speaking of asked about Sanders actions 50 years ago that have nothing to do with the one poster not wanting to be pandered to.

In this context Sanders hasn't established a relationship with the communities of color TODAY regardless of what he did 50 years ago.

On the other hand Clinton has always been there, in Ebony / Jet.. BET... etc, the "your friend sucks vote for me" campaign tactic isn't going to work here.

IMHO.. (this is just me) the pandering here is the hugging of Obama relative to rhetoric against him recently and in the past and associating himself with Bigga and West.

Blacks don't feel the same way about Obama as Sanders has intimated with his associations and rhetoric...

There have been too many examples of this to date... it's like ...he doesn't have a black toned to the black or Hispanic communities to tell him not to do some thing...

Or...

He feels our votes aren't needed...

[Ken Burch]

194. You aren't seriously going to argue that most blacks see support for single-payer

as an attack on Obama. Obama himself started as a single-payer supporter. It's about honoring his original intent.

And what's so special about being in Ebony and Jet? I've read them. Those are magazines for a few rich people who happen to be AA. They aren't magazines that speak to ordinary working-class AA's. They've always been as apolitical and non-threatening to "The Man" as possible. And they spent years running ads for fade cream, for God's sakes.

I don't even know what "your friend sucks votes for me" means.

[morningfog]

180. Are you a PoC?

[uponit7771]

181. Yes, what difference does that make? tia

[morningfog]

182. Plenty. Thanks.

[dsc]

108. It was by no means Chicago's first such demonstration

that is beyond absurd.

[JudyM]

110. Would you post a link confirming that? Here's one from my side...

"The civil rights movement also became a home for him. He became leaders of an NAACP ally called the Congress of Racial Equality at a time when most civil rights activists were black. He was arrested while demonstrating for desegregated public schools in Chicago. (No big deal, says Sanders: “You can go outside and get arrested, too!” he jokes. “It’s not that hard if you put your mind to it.”) He once walked around Chicago putting up fliers protesting police brutality. After half an hour, he realized a police car was following him, taking down every paper he’d up, one by one. “Are these yours?” he remembers the officer telling him, holding up the stack of the fliers.

In his second year at college, Sanders made national news. On a frigid Tuesday afternoon in January, 1962 the 20-year-old from Brooklyn stood on the steps of University of Chicago administration building and railed in the wind against the college’s housing segregation policy. “We feel it is an intolerable situation, when Negro and white students of the university cannot live together in university owned apartments,” the young bespectacled student told the few-dozen classmates gathered there. Then he led them into the building in protest, and camped the night outside the president’s office. It was Chicago’s first civil rights sit-in."

http://time.com/3896500/bernie-sanders-vermont-campaign-radical/

[dsc]

111. Not all demonstrations are sit ins

http://www.encyclopedia.chicagohistory.org/pages/293.html

Founded in 1942 in Chicago by James Farmer and other followers of Gandhian tactics, the Congress of Racial Equality staged sit-ins and other protests against discriminatory Chicago restaurants and recreational centers. In the late 1940s activists of the United Packinghouse Workers union also targeted segregated eateries. By the early 1960s, most public accommodations in the city were open to African Americans.

That would some 20 years earlier.

[JudyM]

113. Ok, I stand corrected. And glad to hear it, in fact. My source is apparently incorrect.

[dsc]

121. they were too cute by half

they probably were technically correct in that the demonstrations weren't sit in but they were implying something which was just plain false.

[Ken Burch]

17. When has HRC done anything BUT pander to you?

You have the right to vote for anyone you want and we all respect that...but it's a perfectly fair question to ask why you back someone who has never really been there for you in actual deed.

A person who argued that her defeat in SC eight years ago didn't count because she lost on the black vote.

[uponit7771]

22. When she said she'd continue Obama's legacy?! tia

[whathehell]

104. Is that all you have to do?

Talk is cheap..If that's all a candidate has to do, we better tell Bernie.

[uponit7771]

109. No, a long term relationship counts also... "Your friends sucks,vote for me" isn't a real good

... campaign strategy

[whathehell]

122. "Your friend sucks, vote for me"?

Try again, because iif that's all you get from Bernie's campaign, you clearly arealln't listening.

[uponit7771]

123. The dem establishment has been better friends to blacks, Clinton a good associate and

... Obama a damn good represenative and Sanders has been dogging all of them for the last 6 months.

That's not all of Sanders message but it sure is a good chunk of it...

Hell, at least 5 times a weak he intimates Hillary has been bought off by the banks.

[frylock]

150. Ah, so blacks dislike Sanders because he dissed your party.

And by dissed, I mean offered well-deserved critique.

[uponit7771]

156. Nah, cause he sits on the sidelines and chunks rocks vs being a leader and then doesn't

... proffer anything better.

He's dogged Obama for years... now he wants a hug or two from him...screw that

[frylock]

161. TRANSLATION: He doesn't get in line.

He wants a hug from Obama? Why do you guys attach yourself so personally to politicians?

[uponit7771]

162. He doesn't have to get in line ... just get A line that people can relate to

[frylock]

164. I'm sure he'll take that under advisement.

[whathehell]

174. Sanders was helping blacks when Hillary was a Goldwater Girl

but you don't want to hear about that...Go ahead -- keep your head in the sand.

[uponit7771]

200. That means what now!? or is this another form bonafides by proxy that's irrelevant to the topic at

... hand?

Recently Sanders minimized a revolution that he should've klinged to imho...

[whathehell]

212. What does Hillary's past help mean "now"?

Strange how Hillary's past help means so much to you but Bernie's, for some reason, is "irrelevant".

Can you say "double standard"?

[uponit7771]

216. Her RECENT help of saying she'll further Obama's legacy means a lot!! Sanders on the other hand is

... saying he wants a course correction.

Sanders has few friends that can relate to the people who his "revolution" is meant for so he's getting whooped in places where these people have heard his message sans poor white men.

[whathehell]

217. Words mean a lot to you, do they?

Most say they're cheap..."sans poor white men"?....No, .most of those are going to Trump -- Try again.

[Ken Burch]

125. Bernie wil expand on that legacy, too.

He never said Obama was evil or wrong...just that the work wasn't done.

[uponit7771]

144. Nope, Sanders not only proffered Obama be primaried but when asekd recently he said he's not for

... status quo

[Ken Burch]

145. He wants to make things better.

He doesn't have to give up on single-payer to pay respects to Obama's legacy.

[uponit7771]

146. Yeap, which means revolution against the establishment and tearing down some of what Obama

...and the rest of dems have built like ACA... which SOMEHOW he plans on having ACA at the same time he has his SP plan...which is impossible... anyone who's read his plan knows people aren't going to pay the 450 for ACA separate from the payroll taxes he wants to implement on workers earnings.

Sanders has been dogging Obama for years, he's been clear on how he feels about him and even associates with two people who have said some of the most racially vile things about Obama (Bigga and West)

Again, asked recently Sanders said he wanted to a "course correction" not continue what Obama has done...

[Ken Burch]

172. He hasn't been "dogging" Obama. He juts want things to go further

And Obama isn't "the establishment". The establishment is rich, straight white men. It will never be anyone else.

Why would anybody who isn't a rich straight white male ever identify with "the establishment"?

And why settle for "fixing the ACA" when the ACA is unfixable?

All Bernie is doing here is trying to fulfull Obama's original objective. He's honoring the man in doing that.

Obama doesn't want things to just stay where they are now, for God's sakes.

[frylock]

148. So pandering.

[uponit7771]

149. Maybe, but its a lot more progressive then proffering Obama be primaried no? tia

[frylock]

151. Suggesting a primary candidate to prod Obama to the left was not progressive?

[uponit7771]

152. Not for the petulant and untrue reasons Sanders put up... Obama went rightward is stupid...

... seeing Sanders hasn't proffered a better way to deal with the GOP gerrymandered congress who put up 80%/ fullibusters to all left wing bills.

Sanders is being disingenious at best with that call to primary Obama...

But look...

When Sanders is in SC he'll speak up and say too the crowed that he called for Obama to be primaried and he is proud of it ...

Cause you know...

He's a straight shooter and all :rolleyes:

[frylock]

154. Just as I'm sure Hillary will be sure to bring up her connections with the prison industrial complex

[uponit7771]

155. Yeah, which she has changed her stance on... Sanders change his stance on primariying Obama?

... no?!

Well, there it is then.

[GummyBearz]

158. Obama isn't running for a primary

Its not really an issue that needs to be clarified. At least to most

[uponit7771]

160. His legacy is... and Sanders is against it... wants a course correction

[GummyBearz]

166. His legacy is running for a primary?

Never heard that one before, but ok. IMO his legacy is solid and wont change no matter who is the next president. I'd just rather not have a war hawk like Clinton in there. And if Sander's wants an improvement to the ACA, why would anyone be against it? Shit... I thought we were the party of continuous progress.

[uponit7771]

168. Yeap.. Every two term president has a legacy they want to continue

... Obama is no different.

Sanders said he wants a course correction when asked would he continue Obmams legacy here lately so ... No it's only solid depending on who wins the primary

[GummyBearz]

170. Such a weak stance

If you think Obama's legacy depends on who comes after him, then it is no real legacy. And if you think it is more important to make a legacy look good for future history books rather than improve the conditions of a current population, then your preferences are misplaced.

[uponit7771]

171. Sry Obama's legacy continues with a Republican? Really? OK...

[GummyBearz]

175. It certainly does

Just like Bill Clinton's legacy is not forgotten after a republican. Btw, we are talking about Sanders here, not a republican.

[uponit7771]

176. We disagree on that.... They'll dismantle everything he does with a GOP congress and prez

[frylock]

183. Hillary Clinton: The Maintenance President.

[uponit7771]

189. Yeap, that would be great... especially seeing the GOP gerrymandered congress she has to deal with

[frylock]

192. Maybe she can wear a tool belt, like Schneider.

[notadmblnd]

178. So we can not move forward and expand on what he's started

because we must honor Obama's legacy? For how long? All eternity?

[uponit7771]

190. YES WE CAN... slowly and surely with as many unilaterals as she can legally do. On the other...

... hand Sanders wants a course correction... cause... we're on the wrong course...

[notadmblnd]

195. How slow do we have to go because people are still dying.

It's all good as long as it is not you?

[uponit7771]

197. Better slow but sure than going backwards and no gains at all... ACA can be built on, I don't see ho

... and Sanders to this day hasn't outlined a practical means of getting past the historically gerrymandered GOP congress

[notadmblnd]

198. He may not have to get around the historically gerrymandered GOP congress.

Unlike his opponent, he's not hated by repubs.

none of his Sen­ate col­leagues, on either side of the aisle, think he could ever be elec­ted pres­id­ent of the United States; most of them even be­lieve he shouldn’t be.

But rather than earn­ing the frus­tra­tion and ire of his peers in the vein of oth­er Sen­ate hard-liners such as Sen. Ted Cruz, Sanders has man­aged to be re­spec­ted — even liked — by much of the cham­ber, ac­cord­ing to mem­bers on both sides of the aisle. The Ver­mont in­de­pend­ent ac­tu­ally has much more in com­mon with Sen. Tom Coburn, the now-re­tired “Dr. No,” whose hard-line op­pos­i­tion killed many bills in the Sen­ate but also earned him the re­spect of his col­leagues on both sides of the aisle.

Sanders also has been able to work well with his col­leagues. He’s passed bi­par­tis­an le­gis­la­tion and forged strong re­la­tion­ships with mem­bers of both parties in nearly 25 years on Cap­it­ol Hill. But most of all, mem­bers say, even when Sanders is ideo­lo­gic­ally an out­lier, he lets oth­ers know where he stands. He’s not the type to sud­denly stab a col­league in the back. And that’s earned him re­spect both on and off the Hill

“A lot of people here talk about what they be­lieve in, but they don’t act on it,” Sen. Mark Warner said. “He al­ways acts on what he be­lieves. “¦ We can agree or dis­agree, but you know where he stands.”

Law­makers on both sides of the aisle, in­clud­ing Sanders him­self, point to last year’s deal to im­prove the dis­astrous, scan­dal-rid­den Vet­er­ans Af­fairs De­part­ment as a high­light. After weeks of ne­go­ti­at­ing with a cadre of Re­pub­lic­an col­leagues, Sanders helped pass the deal on a 91-3 vote in the Sen­ate. “In a pretty dys­func­tion­al Con­gress I helped pass, in a bi­par­tis­an way, the sig­ni­fic­ant vet­er­ans bill, which in­creases health care to vet­er­ans and lowers wait­ing times, and I’m proud of that,” Sanders said. “That was a sig­ni­fic­ant step for­ward.”


http://www.nationaljournal.com/s/71225/bernie-sanders-is-loud-stubborn-socialist-republicans-like-him-anyway

[uponit7771]

199. Neither was Obama... until he became president. No one believes they're going to magically cooperate

... with Sanders the socialist because of revolution.

[notadmblnd]

202. Stop wiht the "socialist" shit. You know he's a democratic socialist

your social security check is socialism, public education is socialism. The roads you drive on is socialism. The water running from your faucet runs because of socialism. The post office is socialism. Police and fire services is socialism. Unemployment insurance is socialism and parts of the ACA is socialism. If you partake in any of these programs, you are participating in socialist activities.

The word socialist is not the big bad boogeyman word it used to be and it's not scaring anyone.

[uponit7771]

206. We can call Sanders a turtle... that's NOT going to change the fact they're NOT going cooperate with

... him and face the only chance of getting booted out of their safe seats.

No one understands gerrymandering

[notadmblnd]

207. Your opinion. Nothing more.

I'm feel certain that Senator Sanders knows how to use the Executive pen as well as Hillary. That is her plan, correct? Not to work with congress, but subvert it.

[uponit7771]

208. Then its not worth taking a chance on until he shows something emperical ... I'm willing to change

... my mind when I hear something that works

[notadmblnd]

209. No, I don't think you are being honest.

You are having too much fun attacking Sanders and his supporters to be someone willing to change sides.

[uponit7771]

210. Who cares what I think, Sanders shows a workable plan around congress then I'm all in

[frylock]

159. Is there anything she HASN'T changed her stance on?

[uponit7771]

191. Hopefully not... hopefully she'll continue to change for the better... like Sanders et al

[frylock]

193. No need to change for the better when you had the correct stance in the first place.

[Joe Shlabotnik]

30. +1 n/t

[merrily]

34. Really! I've seen and heard enough pandering to have a good idea myself.

DISCLAIMER: THE FOLLOWING IS FAR FROM EXHAUSTIVE. MORE EXAMPLES ABOUND BUT I'M TIRED, EVEN IF HILLARY AIN'T IN NO WAYS TIRED.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/01/17/clinton.plantation/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1187369/Clinton-adopts-southern-accent-campaign-stop-south.html

[thesquanderer]

179. He's been consistent on civil rights for, what, 50 years... that's a long time to pander.

Maybe he demonstrated in the 60s because he knew he was going to run for president 50 years later?

Seriously, I've heard knocks on Sanders, but not being sincere or having deeply held convictions is a new one on me.

Hillary, OTOH...

[nc4bo]

6. hahaha funny, just said the same about HRC in another post. Hahahaha nt

[thesquanderer]

7. Based on anything in particular? (n/t)

[workinclasszero]

137. Same here

I take Bernie at his word. He has had nothing but contempt for the democratic party and its voters for his entire career until a few months ago.

[frylock]

153. He has had nothing but contempt for the democratic enablers in congress..

don't blame him for the unhealthy personal attachment you guys seem to have for the Party.

[NurseJackie]

167. Ditto. Nothing about him appeals to me.

[alarimer]

214. Says someone who supports a politician that will say anything to be elected.

Judging from the amount of flipflopping. Going progressive (at least in word, if not actually in deed) when threatened by someone from the left.

Sheesh. You all just don't really listen to yourselves, do you?

[KingCharlemagne]

9. Oh, so you mean not EVERY PERSON of COLOR kissed the ring of

Madame "Hard Working White Folks" Weathervane? Some (34%) actually voted for their best interests? Thanks for clarifying that.

[uponit7771]

12. So another dodge, not even trying to address the question in the OP ...

... this isn't going so good

[Ken Burch]

18. No dodge, just pointing out that Bernie is gaining quickly among POC.

He was never supposed to get anywhere close to 34% among AA and Latino voters anywhere.

[uponit7771]

25. No, this is false... he never was supposed to have a 25 point spread in a state he spent 3 months in

[JimDandy]

47. Hillary's campaign and supporters spent a disgusting 9 months cultivating racial division

in the Dem party against another Dem candidate. I have never seen anything like that in my 35 years in the Dem Party. In spite of that, SANDERS STILL OBTAINED 34% OF THE MINORITY VOTE in Iowa. That was amazing!

The more exposure Sanders gets to Millennials, Indys and Progressives of any race, the more they choose to vote for him and their own best interests. It is clear that Sander's GENUINE caring about their problems and thoughtful solutions to them is turning the tide, even when the most vile stuff is thrown in it.

As of right now, every one of the adult POC (Black/Asian) in my (mostly white) family is voting for Bernie (except 1 who has been a long-time republican and is one of the top 10%)

Time and Momentum are on his side.

[jg10003]

56. TPTB have always relied on divide and conquer

City vs. country, African-Americans vs. Jews, African-Americans vs. progressives. Whatever it takes to keep the peasants from uniting and demanding that government work for people and not Wall Street, big oil, big pharma, etc.

[JimDandy]

61. Yes, but it's still sickening to see a *Dem* candidate attempting to use POCs

as a firewall in a quest for political redemption..

[uponit7771]

142. lol... now the racial division is HRCs fault!?!? What did she do to cultivate this?! regards

... this is desperate

[Ken Burch]

139. compared to 10% POC support at one point, it's a big gain.

Sad that you are this fixated on perpetuating this meme.

[uponit7771]

143. Red Herring relative to his hurdles, if his message was reaching PoC then a state he spent 3 monthsi

... in he should've been closer.

So mostly whites in IA voted for Sanders

[KingCharlemagne]

26. Dodge? please proceed - nt

[G_j]

10. there is not a "division"

to be "extreme".

There is simply a loyalty and familiarity people have with the Clintons.

[uponit7771]

16. like in 08?

[frylock]

184. Tell us what happened in 08.

[uponit7771]

188. Familiarity didn't help Clinton in 08, nor is Sanders Obama hate helping him in 15...

... just can't proffer the first black presdient be primaried for some petulant thin reasons and expect folk not to remember that

[frylock]

196. Clinton initially had overwhelming support from the AA community. They left her for Obama.

Winston Smith would be proud.

[Ken Burch]

11. The incessantly repeated lie that Bernie doesn't care about institutional bigotry.

Bernie has proved now that he cares about fighting to end institutional bigotry as much as anyone else in the race, and is now gaining in all demographics.

[Avalux]

13. Your subject line has no supporting evidence, it's really underhanded.

To claim such a thing just shows how much you want to believe it.

[RiverLover]

15. Was this the new "meme of the day" in the latest group email? /nt

[Ken Burch]

19. They have to double down on this.

Bernie is gaining among POC everywhere now...still behind, yes, but gaining.

If the HRC campaign admits the Sanders movement is not anti-POC, they lose their last talking point.

[RiverLover]

23. Yep. And its so incredibly obvious.

Pathetic too.

[uponit7771]

28. Sanders spent 3 months in IA... he should've gained but not lost by 25 points in a demographic

... that he needs

[John Poet]

94. Sanders was down by at least 50 percent, maybe 60,

in that demographic a few months back.... seems like he was almost in single digits.

So for him to get 34 percent in Iowa is an outstanding gain for him.

[uponit7771]

100. Not rellevant data, he could've been down 1000%. If his message resonates he wins ... but with

... a demographic it wasn't... he'll need this demo in later states.

I honestly thought he'd do better in IA with PoC

[frylock]

185. There's no sense in arguing with logic like this.

[Ken Burch]

124. It's proof that he is gaining.

That's why you are so desperate to perpetuate the lie that Bernie can never get AA votes.

What is it about the guy you are so terrified about?

He's just as anti-racist as HRC.

The polls show he's just as electable.

[SwampG8r]

27. Its basically just clibton supporters saying that so

Most likely it has no basis in fact.

[uponit7771]

29. Sanders didn't lose the PoC vote by 25% in IA?!

[JPnoodleman]

32. I recall reading Bill Clinton was very popular among African-Americans.

It is somewhat likely the two are not unrelated factors.

Among other non-white voters I think it has much to do with Bernie coming from Vermont which makes him still an unknown to many.

[merrily]

37. Bernie comes from very diverse NY City. He moved to Vermont, which is a U.S. state, not an unknown.

[JPnoodleman]

40. I did not know that about him, maybe its not widely known? /nt

[merrily]

42. You didn't know he came from NYC? That is very widely known.

Have you ever heard him speak? Read any articles that mentioned his accent or his years before he went to college? Read his wikipedia?

[JPnoodleman]

44. I didn't wish to assume? Its a harmless thing....

I've listen to his speeches and read his policy stuff. Tis' why I've sent him money and put myself in the Sanders camp.

I suppose it is a bit NYC sounding or from that area. But yes, I honestly didn't know NYC was his original home.

Maybe it isn't too widely known? I mean I am a Sanders supporter and didn't really give that thought, I just see the great man from Vermont with some good ideas in his head.

[jg10003]

59. The strongest brooklyn accent since Leo Gorcey

[merrily]

65. I had to do a bit of research. To be fair to Leo Gorcey,

Gorcey hadn't held onto his accent after spending most of 51 years living in Illinois and Vermont!

[cheapdate]

33. Lingering goodwill toward the Clintons, mostly. n/t

[merrily]

36. For all the "racially tinged" dog whistles from both of them during the 2008 primary campaign?

[cheapdate]

98. Yes, despite everything that's happened, there is lingering good will toward the Clintons.

It's just a fact. If I have to explain it to you, then you'll never understand it.

[merrily]

99. Thanks for the condescension, but

I did not say it did not exist. I questioned the basis for its existence.

Besides that, a vote for Hillary is not necessarily indicative of good will for the Clintons. There are a host of other factors in play.

[Ken Burch]

134. Which is weird, because they helped found the DLC

a group whose central argument was that the Democratic Party had to leave every right-wing slur about POC(including the relentless equation of blackness with criminality, out-of-wedlock births and welfare fraud...they didn't quite say "shiftless", but they came damn close)completely unchallenged.

[cheapdate]

211. Be that as it may,

there is fondness and a degree of loyalty for Bill Clinton, and Hillary by extension. Bill nearly swept the South twice. He'd of done it a third time if he could.

[Wilms]

35. Certain posters on DU.

[merrily]

38. That's gonna leave a mark.

Or, it should.

[Autumn]

41. By Jove I think you've got it

[JimDandy]

62. Succinct. n/t

[LiberalAndProud]

39. I will focus on the 34 percent.

That race is some sort of monolithic political goalpost to attack is so offensive to me as a person, I am beyond politics of personality. Ask them. They are people. Where do they live? What do they care about? And if you once, even one time, mention the shade of their skin, I'll like clock you.

If it were all about race, I suspect Rubio would have finished better than turd.

[aikoaiko]

43. 2 reasons: 1. friends with Bill and Barack

2. And spending the last 25 years building relationships with leaders in the black community nationally

[merrily]

102. The same Bill who told Kennedy Barack would have been bring them coffee a couple of years earlier?

Who accused Kennedy of backing Barack only because Barack is black? That Bill?

ok.

[Number23]

45. Waiting for someone to say it's: ignorant black folks, the AA forum here, Black Twitter or BLM

It couldn't POSSIBLY have anything to do with Sanders himself, his positions or supporters.

Edit: Holy shit! Somebody actually posted it was DUers!!!!!!! "Certain" Duers are the reason!! Oh Lord!! Oh good Lord!!!

This is even better than Cali_Dem's poll asking "who won Iowa?" and 60% of the folks said Sanders!!!!!

Damn typos. I'm laughing so damn hard I can't even type right now!! "Certain" Duers are the reason Sanders is having trouble attracting minority voters. Who knew???!

[elias49]

48. Is this code or an inside joke?

[Number23]

49. What's got you so dreadfully confused?

[JimDandy]

66. That poster appears to have totally misread the OP's question,

which is a false premise in the first place.

[Number23]

75. Well considering that you high fived the very comment that sent me into a fit of giggles over how

ridiculous it was, no surprise that my comment has got you so confused.

[JimDandy]

77. Nope. Your comment is not confusing to me. The key word is *Drives*.

If you noticed, I was interested in helping someone else with their confusion... I bypassed you, but, since you stopped by...

[Number23]

78. It sure is. And anyone that thinks that DUers are "driving" Sanders' lack of appeal to minorities

should definitely call it a night. Like, permanently.

[JimDandy]

81. Read it again. Don't have time for you to clue in so, Ta ta.

[Number23]

87. LOL Between the two of us, I'm not the one that's completely misunderstood the OP

or the broad and overarching issues that the OP is seeking to discuss.

But it's precious that you think that you are the one that needs to clue ME in.

[Bonobo]

51. Keep waiting.

Real life is a bit more complex than the stories we tell ourselves.

[Number23]

53. Oh hi. It's you

I already noted that someone has already said it was "certain" DUers that are behind Sanders' poor minority support so I have no idea why you felt so compelled to respond to my post but I generally tend to feel that way.

[Bonobo]

64. Yup, read it twice but to no avail.

I suggest you investigate the whole "comma" thing.

[Number23]

73. I'm super shocked that you couldn't understand and yet still felt compelled to respond anyway

Shocked. Really.

[Bonobo]

74. Wait.

Did you go from "super shocked" and then sort of leveled off into regular "shock"?

Or did you want to emphasize the word "shock" so you repeated it twice?

[Number23]

76. As if adding a few commas would clear anything up for you.

I'd ask precisely where these missing "commas" need to go in order for you to understand my fairly simple post but then that would lead to the extremely false impression that I was interested.

[Bonobo]

79. That needs commas too.

Shocked? Or super shocked?

[marble falls]

96. Both of you need to drink decaf. This is only week one.

[AOR]

52. So...what in your view should Sanders do differently to attract minority voters ?

What positions is Sanders taking that minorities disagree with ? What is wrong with Sanders himself that turns minorities off to his message ? What is it that Clinton offers that Sanders doesn't ?

[Number23]

54. At this point, I honestly don't know what he could do differently.

Many black folks just aren't feeling him and are astonished that his supporters keep talking about how much he's done for black people when many black folks had no idea who he was until about a year ago.

[AOR]

70. Capitalism and the two-party ruling class circus as a problem aside for a minute...

I do understand the idea behind the safe play for the Black community in backing the Democratic Party and not rolling back any gains made for civil rights by losing the election to the Republicans. Even through that lens... I'm not so sure Clinton is a safe bet to win a general election at this point. Maybe Sanders will get his people out into more minority communities and more people will hear his message if it's a message they think viable for their communities.

[Philos]

83. So you're admitting it's just an irrational mistrust/dislike

And that Bernie himself hasn't actually done (or not done) anything to deserve it? Just because black folks had never heard of Bernie, it doesn't mean he hasn't done anything for him.

It doesn't sound like Bernie is the problem here.

[Number23]

88. Not only is that not even close to what I'm "admitting"

not that I am "admitting" anything at all, It's clear to me that you have already made up your mind about what you think the problems are.

There have been probably 100 articles a week from lots and lots of black people explaining that Sanders focus on economics over all else, his votes against gun control, his contention that he would not further Obama's legacy and the basic underlying thought amongst alot of black people that he has no chance of winning are what has kept alot of black people from supporting him.

But if you want to continue to believe that it's black folks that have the problem, you run with that. My sincere lack of interest in playing to your confirmation bias means you'll have to find someone else to play this little game with you. Sorry.

[Philos]

89. I don't think it's a lack of interest

It's just that you know you don't have a legitimate reason. And when asked what Bernie could do differently to make you happy, you don't have an answer for that either. And yet you'll point out Bernie's lack of support amongst black people, as if it's somehow his fault. If you're refusing to engage, explain, or suggest how things could be done better, it's not his fault, it's your fault.

[Number23]

90. I added in an edit which explained why engaging with you is of no interest to me whatsoever

Hope that helps.

[Number23]

92. "They were all based on distortions, inaccuracies, talking points, and outright lies."

Every article by black people discussing Sanders' record is just full of lies, huh? No wonder you wanted to leave his "supporters" out of this discussion. I would too. But unfortunately, I think you just inadvertently answered the main question in this OP.

So very, very done here.

[uponit7771]

117. Yes, Sanders might be slightly better... not good enough to toss a long term relationship away

... and take a chance on someone who hasn't had taxpayer money thrown at them to lower their poll numbers like was done with Clinton

[uponit7771]

116. 23 posted 5 legitimate reasons outlined more than half year ago and still hasn't changed to

... this day.

You're still asking about why blacks aren't support Sanders because of a bubble...

23 posted nothing new to people who've been paying attention for months

[Number23]

157. He can't hear us no mo'...

He's dead, Jim

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=329961&sub=trans

[marble falls]

97. Are you more concerned about the economy and how it leaves ...

PoC out in the cold or gun control?

[comradebillyboy]

177. Keep up the good work Number 23

But some people just don't want to look at reality. Bernie did something good 50+ years ago and then disappeared for all intents and purposes.

[Bobbie Jo]

55. Be sure to check for marks

Because apparently they were left around here somewhere.

[Number23]

57. Were they black too??

[Bobbie Jo]

58. Naturally

[Philos]

82. What about Sanders himself or his positions?

Could you be more specific? I'd really like to pin this down and address it. And let's leave a candidate's supporters out of this for now.

[uponit7771]

118. Why are Sanders supporters on DU ignoring AA post that have been outlining why they don't support

... Sanders for nearly a half a year?!

Why is this questions being asked now!?

Read the post by AA's on DU for the last 6 months and ask oneself this very quesrtion again

[mhatrw]

46. Where is this supposed data coming from?

The Iowa Democratic party can't even tell us how many people voted for each candidate. So who gathered this data and how did they gather it?

[JimDandy]

68. Entrance polling per the ABC link.

[mhatrw]

84. How many non-whites were entrance polled?

What is the margin of error among non-whites?

[Art_from_Ark]

105. And entrance polling had Hillary winning by 9%

[w4rma]

50. That looks like almost the same margin that the polls underrepresented Sanders by, among everyone.nt

[Starry Messenger]

60. In organizing work we call it capacity building.

I guess it is beneath Bernie. HRC did her homework, not as exciting as rallies, but effective.

[djean111]

63. As far as I can tell, it is Hillary's supporters driving this division. n/t

[Art_from_Ark]

67. Yup

"Not Good Enough Bernie!!1ll1!ll!!"

[Bobbie Jo]

107. Yeah, that must be it

Last edited Wed Feb 3, 2016, 01:44 PM - Edit history (1)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251506368

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251503212

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251504091

http://www.democraticunderground.com/128027165

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027060303

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251505656

Driving division, etc...

eta: Except, these don't look like Hillary supporters to me. Also, I don't expect to get a response here.

I encourage everyone to read through these threads if they're interested in understanding the division. I suspect that most won't bother.

[uponit7771]

114. +1

[AgingAmerican]

71. Hillary supporters drive it

[7wo7rees]

80. I sincerely believe it is nothing more than more propaganda.

nt

[senz]

85. Propaganda. Very cynical propaganda.

[Fumesucker]

86. Some things just never get old

[frylock]

187. She asked WHAT drives, not how to drive to.

[polly7]

95. What drives the extreme need for divisiveness? nt.

[jillan]

103. Um - Hillary's comments that LBJ deserves more credit than MLK for the civil rights movement?

This will catch up with her. Just you wait and see.

[firebrand80]

106. My $.02

The Clinton brand is still strong in the black community. The bond is not so tight that it can't be broken by someone like Obama, but it's significant. Even in 2008, Black voters didn't flee Hillary in mass until Obama proved he was viable.

IMO, Bernie isn't going to cut into her lead by much. For all the good civil rights work he's done, he doesn't "connect" well with black voters in 2016. I give him credit for trying, but the fact is that he hasn't had to connect with black voters for his entire political career. Hillary has had to, that's why she able to easily do it now.

I don't get the feeling that black voters have anything against Bernie per se, they jut prefer Hillary. If he were to be the nominee, he would get 90% of the black vote.

[GummyBearz]

165. Well

Your post sounds honest. I am still confused about the reasons for why this is the case. But thanks for the post.

[firebrand80]

169. Again, it's "connection" with those voters

It's not a tangible or easily defined thing, but it's real and it's powerful.

Why did the "Regan Democrats" go to the Rebulican party? It had nothing to do with Regan's policies and everything to do with his ability to connect with them.

I just don't see it with Bernie and AA voters right now.

[NCTraveler]

112. I would like to give a brief but serious answer.

Economic stability. That simple.

Many associate the name Clinton with economic stability and expansion. Few fears are greater to those in poverty or in lower income scales than economic uncertainty. Many already live that every day under "descent" economic conditions.

[mmonk]

115. Propaganda by a dishonest political party.

[Blue_Tires]

120. Personally, the Sanders supporters have pissed me off to no end

And seeing some of the merciless smears they've directed to some of the most highly respected black twitter accounts in the twitterverse hasn't helped either...I've tried to gently warn many that their tactics could lead to some backlash among the black vote, but it didn't do much good...

For the record, before anybody tries to get cute, I'm still a Sanders supporter, but only barely... Right now I'm *this* close to joining the Hillary camp just to spite the BernieBro Emoprogs...

I just want this election to be over... I've probably put a quarter of DU on ignore already, and it will probably be half by the time summer gets here...

[HassleCat]

127. It's not extreme racial division

Black voters are far more comfortable with Clinton because they feel some empathy from her, and she has developed friendships with many black politicians. The extreme racial divide is yet to come, but it will develop as Clinton supporters talk more and more about the black voter firewall and such things.

[Todays_Illusion]

128. It is mostly a lie created by Hillary Clinton supporters.

[PeaceNikki]

130. No, it's not.

http://www.latinpost.com/articles/109083/20160115/presidential-election-poll-2016-hillary-clinton-has-strong-lead-among-black-latino-voters-sanders-winning-white-vote.htm

[Todays_Illusion]

133. That is how it is done, make a story and stick with with it, but it is failing.

It is failing because the audience is not a bunch of ignorant misinformed but people who remember how duplicitous Hillary is and how Bill Clinton betrayed the very people he claimed to be supporting with that crime and punishment law and other economic policies like a pitiful 40 cent per increase in the minimum wage and the repeal of Glass-Steagall then stood silently by and allowed the entire economic collapse be blamed on loans to African Americans, I certainly heard no denial from either Hillary Clinton or Bill Clinton about that lie. Did you?

[PeaceNikki]

136. lol. It's data, not a 'spin' or a 'story'.

[Stuckinthebush]

135. Stop that

Facts are inconvenient and mean.

[Romulox]

141. Massive infusions of corporate cash. nt

[Odin2005]

147. The Hillarians are trying to inflame a popular false dichtomy between...

...defending the working class on one and helping people of color, women, and LGBT folks on the other. The insinuation by Hillary supporters is that "working class people" means only working class white men.

[uponit7771]

173. ummmmm....nooooooooo... Just passing poll results (link inside)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1130100

[matt819]

163. Oh, FFS

The non-white populations in Iowa and NH are almost imperceptibly small, and I would argue that they are not representative of non-white populations in states that have larger non-white populations. To draw conclusions at this early stage is pointless, as is much coming out of the Hillary camp and Hillary pundits.

[wendylaroux]

201. well,you are,for one.

[hobbit709]

203. Desperate Hillary supporters trying anything to see what sticks.

[Freddie Stubbs]

213. Perhaps some African Americans saw Sanders palling around with Obama haters like Cornel West

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2016/01/22/how-cornel-west-hurts-bernie-sanders/

[morningfog]

215. Hillary's wedge politics.

[OrwellwasRight]

218. She has far higher name recognition.

Remember this is her FOURTH presidential campaign (counting the Bill Campaigns). Bernie's first.