2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHow long will Hillary's shaky coalition of low information, network news watching voters hold fast?
How far can she go simply by using corporate media to scare people into thinking the opponent they agree with on the issues is unelectable?
Election fixers, ground game, name recognition, Bill Clinton's coattails, and 24/7 corporate media shilling and scaring voters in your favor can only take you so far when the people just don't trust you or your rich corporate establishment masters.
How long will all of Clinton's billionaires and millionaires keep backing a tired losing horse?
DanTex
(20,709 posts)uponit7771
(90,364 posts)DanTex
(20,709 posts)mhatrw
(10,786 posts)The math says if Hillary is nominated, everybody under 40 stays home and Rubio wins.
But that would not be nearly as bad as Sanders' winning to some. How about you?
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)heads up math
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Lowest of the low info, right there.
Number23
(24,544 posts)Bookmarking this one. The flailing, rage filled spin out was expected from these folks and it's STILL been a hell of a thing to see all over this board today.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)because it is fucked up. I am happy Bernie had a great night though, sad about O Malley. Laughing at the clown car.
Number23
(24,544 posts)for supporting Hillary, such as this OP, or the plethora of "black people LURRV Bernie" posts that are not only 100% divorced from the reality of the level of AA support the candidates are receiving right now, but seem to be posted and supported by folks who go out of their way to be openly hostile to minority posters here.
Like I said, it's been such a fun day. My bookmarks tab is about to explode.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)but people were thrilled about it, LOL.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)Last edited Wed Feb 3, 2016, 12:21 AM - Edit history (1)
Oh, wait a minute. That's actually unknowable. Right?
wyldwolf
(43,870 posts)smiley
(1,432 posts)long enough to hand the election to the GOP. Which is exactly what will happen if Hillary wins the nomination.
wyldwolf
(43,870 posts)good one.
madokie
(51,076 posts)She is not going to win the nomination of the democratic party. that you can take to the bank.
Just not enough Dem fools for her to get there from here.
Andy823
(11,495 posts)And Dem that votes for Hillary is a "fool"? This is not the way to get others on your side, you do know that don't you?
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)madokie
(51,076 posts)just didn't quiet get deep enough to bring blood this time is all.
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)Metric System
(6,048 posts)SheenaR
(2,052 posts)My mother is a low information voter who was voting HRC simply because she thought it was "her turn". I asked her to watch a few speeches and get to know Bernie a little better.
And we gained another voter.
That's one of many I am willing to assume
dsc
(52,166 posts)since blacks, gays, hispanics, and women all supporter her to variously large majorities that means your opinion of those voters is that they are apparently stupid. Maybe you should team up with Marray on his next book.
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)... who are leaning away from his message?
Sanders message and his supporters are quickly turning Clinton into one of "us" (marginalized) and he hasn't realized it yet.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)If you talk to people, most don't have a fng clue. Everyone get their panties in a twist about that reality, but it is true of most American voters...whether they vote for Cruz or Clinton or Trump. Most people vote for the frontrunner...not the issues.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Listen to yourself.
Beacool
(30,251 posts)"We caucused for HC in a dining hall of Cedar Heights Elementary School in Cedar Falls, Iowa, a liberal college town. There were about 420 attendees, and the vote split pretty much as reported here. There were several notable differences in the makeup of the Sanders and Clinton groups. The Sanders group had a larger share of young people in their early twenties, for instance. But what was very striking -- the Clinton group had the diversity: blacks, Asians, burly gay women and etc. The Sanders group was all white. Every one of them. Even in a place like Iowa, seeing that homogeneous mass was remarkable and a bit unsettling."
Who truly represents the base of the Democratic party?
Kall
(615 posts)just prior to running for President, clearly.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)Of those, did you notice which demographics supported Sanders vs. which supported Clinton?
then why the 6 coin tosses?
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)uponit7771
(90,364 posts)... most polls because these types of overtly marginalizing discussion by Sanders and his supporters.
We're not LIV's... we just don't like Sanders message and some of the people it attracts
*** Cute puppies can't vote in primaries.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)And my post about this is why.
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)mhatrw
(10,786 posts)Who are you speaking for?
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)... supposed to be leading this revolution for?
tia
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)On which social and economic justice issues do "your people" prefer Clinton?
madaboutharry
(40,220 posts)People are entitled to see things differently than you; it doesn't make them low information, network news watching voters.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)Those who do not watch network or cable news went 80% to 20% for Sanders.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Good job.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)Clinton appeals only to voters whose opinions about electability and unelectability are largely formed by network and cable news.
mcar
(42,372 posts)You are insulting me with your assumption that I am "low information."
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)If not, on which issues do you prefer Clinton to Sanders?
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)JPnoodleman
(454 posts)I wouldn't call them ill-informed. But I would question if that base will carry her through.
emulatorloo
(44,182 posts)mhatrw
(10,786 posts)Hillary threw everything she had at Bernie.
Twice the money, twice the caucus rules savvy, twice the ground game, and all the corporate media love. Only to have more Iowans show up to caucus for Sanders. That must smart, especially for all those planning to get a job in or because of her administration.
stonecutter357
(12,697 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)Codeine
(25,586 posts)Taking out the word "old" doesn't make it any classier.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)Did any of you look at the demographics?
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)I'm in none of your categories. I'm actually a fairly intelligent, educated life long Democrat who happens to think Hillary would make the best President. I know that you have a meme going and you are trying to find a demeaning one that is all inclusive for Clinton supporters. I don't think you are there yet.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)For a "high-information" voter you have said something which proves how seriously UNINFORMED you are and really NUMB. For all your "information" you never learned that you don't win people over to your side by insulting them. Time for you to skip on back to school.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)I'm trying to get all of the people shilling for Hillary because of their promised future paydays to jump ship like rats.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)Guess you must be one of them "high information" voters, eh?
Beacool
(30,251 posts)I wonder if they are old enough to vote. I excuse their ignorance and lack of good manners on youth. If they are adults, on the other hand, they have no excuse.
Beacool
(30,251 posts)You sound exactly like Rush Limbaugh. In case you haven't noticed, this is a Democratic board. Your post is ignorant and offensive.
First of all, you are the one who needs an education. Second, who the hell are you to dictate who is a Democrat and who is not? Last time I checked, your candidate of choice just became a Democrat out of political expediency to be able to run for president.
As to your question, Hillary will go to the convention to accept the nomination, that's how far she will go.
handmade34
(22,757 posts)not a low information voter and certainly not scared
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)handmade34
(22,757 posts)Hillary and Bernie there are more similarities than differences... I would be pleased to have either for my President. I love Bernie's platform and am very familiar with his politics knowing him for decades... (I also have followed Hillary Clinton closely for decades and admire her work for healthcare, with families, children and also with Heads of State worldwide). (though... I am to the left of the both of them politically) I would hazard a guess that both candidates have a wide and diverse group of supporters; some well educated about the issues and some sadly misinformed...
Your original post is a sad reflection of how deep the talking points and propaganda of the right have dug into the psyche of Republicans and Democrats both.
The most important thing in this election year is that we must work to get as many Democrats into as many offices (local, state and nationally) as possible... a lot of hateful, vile talk about one of our Democratic candidates will not help.
http://www.ontheissues.org/Hillary_Clinton.htm
http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/bernie_sanders.htm
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)Hillary completely tanked both with independents and with people who do not get the majority of their "information" from network and cable news.
What corporate media trumps 24/7 as her biggest advantage ("electability" is actually one of her biggest liabilities.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)WilmywoodNCparalegal
(2,654 posts)Sen. Sanders would certainly be a good candidate in many countries. In the U.S., however, the reality is that a great part of the electorate (note: electorate does not equal those who could vote) is far more conservative than DU thinks.
I've lived in rural and urban areas. The kinds of ideas that are accepted in places like NYC or even LV where I live now do not fly in rural NC where I lived.
A President has to work with a Congress that will be as divided as it has been. A President must be able to compromise in order to get stuff done.
While Sen. Sanders' ideas and proposals could be feasible, I just don't see the electorate able to differentiate between the dictionary definition of socialist democracy versus the Fox version (bad! bad! red people! Russia, North Korea... bad!) in the general election.
Since my prerogative is to see Democrats elected, I believe Sec. Clinton is the better choice of the two. She is not perfect but I feel that she can work with a divided electorate and Congress more than Sen. Sanders.
The real world in these U.S. of A is not as liberal as we think. While Sen. Sanders does get a lot of support from younger voters, let's not forget there are many states in this nation where people - including Democrats - are not as liberal. In an ideal world, I wish the U.S. were as liberal as other countries. Sen. Sanders would be a great President in this ideal world, with a Congress comprised of individuals who - though they may have different philosophies and ideas - still work together for the common good.
Alas, reality is different, at least at this go-round. Maybe in the next election cycle...
Just my two Euro cents from a U-R-apeein non-U.S. citizen.
Cosmocat
(14,572 posts)Joyfully berating voters he will need to win in the general if he captures the nomination ...
Good work, genius.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)Could you explain Clinton's appeal other than the corporate media 24/7 refrain that "Sanders is unelectable" even though he beat Hillary by more than 2 to 1 among independents last night?
Cosmocat
(14,572 posts)You think Bernie can win the general w/o Hill primary voters?
THAT is the point.
Christ, I am voting Bernie and cant's stand most Bernie supporters here ...
The "appeal" is the same as any other candidate, they know and are comfortable with her.
Shitting on her, and them, ain't going to help bring them on board to support Bernie in the general if he can get past her.
WTF ...
Onlooker
(5,636 posts)... and other groups that have a lot of Hillary supporters. Your post is really ignorant, accusing groups that support Hillary of being low information. There are plenty of reasons to aupport Hillary. A lot of people support her because they think a Jewish, Brooklyn socialist cannot win or they think it's important to all girls and women to have a female president. I support Sanders, but I certainly understand why a lot of good people do not.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)a relatively "low information voter" right now.
In Iowa, Sanders won 80% to 20% among those who do not typically get their news from network or cable TV.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)its true
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)cry baby
(6,682 posts)intelligent. Many are liking Hillary in this primary.
Get off your high horse.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)Would the seminal poster poster post his curriculum vitae or resume with identifying information redacted, of course, so us plebeians can decide how much credence we should give to his proclamations.
Thank you in advance.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)I realize that many Hillary supporters here are very high information lobbyists.
I am talking about regular people.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)mhatrw
(10,786 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)You insult your fellow posters. I have the temerity to point it out. You double down with an ad hominem atttack?
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)Last edited Wed Feb 3, 2016, 01:03 AM - Edit history (1)
Hillary Clinton is beholden to all of her biggest super PAC contributors.
Beacool
(30,251 posts)Sounds like an arrogant kid to me.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)mhatrw
(10,786 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)mhatrw
(10,786 posts)Voting in your own economic self-interest is completely understandable.
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)Talk about low information.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)Actually, it is pretty pathetic in a supposed meritocracy, but I guess it's who you know.
Luckily, Clinton has all the best connections to cut us all a deal on all the deals going down.
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)ecstatic
(32,731 posts)as low information. Both Bernie and Trump are making promises that defy math and common sense.
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)brooklynite
(94,727 posts)That should work well...
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)arely staircase
(12,482 posts)See you in the South.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)arely staircase
(12,482 posts)mhatrw
(10,786 posts)Just wondering ...
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)mcar
(42,372 posts)orpupilofnature57
(15,472 posts)Squinch
(51,004 posts)That's where high information voters get their information, isn't it?
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)But, of course, you prefer CNN. Right?
Squinch
(51,004 posts)grossproffit
(5,591 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Or are you just stroking your own ego?
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)mhatrw
(10,786 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Bernie supporters, free country and everything.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)"They so meanly keep harping on issues, judgment, character, and corporate cronyism!"
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)if the poster was trying to convince anyone.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)And nary a one was "convinced" yet.
JPnoodleman
(454 posts)The general consensus on Hillary and indeed much of the GOP is that they are "Too much in love with Moloch," a phrase roughly meaning they, and I, think she is too beholden to money and love of money.
But my family tends to be very religious so biblical allusions sell well among the lot of us.
Bernie gets the support for being the labor guy that the much older members remember existing at the tail end of the 40's and 50's or have passed on knowledge of having existed in the early 20th century.
Go to the mirror
NowSam
(1,252 posts)You supported GWB you were either extremely low information (read naive) or in on the scam. I find it unfathomable that anyone could believe or follow candidates who are obviously bought and paid for. Mhatrw, you got guts. The Status quo - The current system is so corrupt and such a scam on the people that I have to believe that anyone voting for more of that is either hoping to profit from the misery that will rain down on the rest of the people or they just don't see the countless examples of deceit, trickery and contempt that these status quo candidates have for the people. I find it bizarre that anyone with eyes to see and ears to hear can't see through the corruption from the status quo candidate. Maybe the blue pill just works so well that they can't see. Or they took the red pill and don't care that the steak is fake.