Spin it all you want Hillary supporters, but Bernie's performance was unprecedented

[AZ Progressive]

Bernie....

- had not just no support from the Democratic Party, but actually has become a virtual enemy of the Democratic Party establishment
- is going up against the Clinton Machine
- was hardly known before running for president and has had lack of familiarity and exposure due to lack of debates on primetime
- has been labeled a radical and "unelectable" by many

And he managed to virtually tie with Hillary.

Hillary, the Democratic Party establishment, and the media did a flurry of attacks within the past few days and all Hillary managed to do was a tie? That to me is a mediocre outcome for Hillary.

[truedelphi]

1. And of course, the media has given ms Clinton about 10,000% more air

Time than they have given Bernie.

This is a major loss for Hillary, regardless of how CNN and the other Corporate hack controlled "networks" are playing it.

[JaneyVee]

3. lolwut?

It is a state 95% white and filled with college campuses, she won after coming in 3rd in 2008. A win is a win. And she won.

[Matariki]

5. All the kidz live in Iowa!!!

Oh noes!!!

[AZ Progressive]

6. By 0.35%!!!

You must be ecstatic!

[JaneyVee]

12. Im looking forward to moving onto states that actually...

Represent the diversity of our Democratic base.

[jfern]

24. A Field poll from a while ago had her up only 12 points in California

I wonder what it is now. California is 2nd only to Hawaii in the lowest percentage of non Hispanic whites.

[merrily]

29. Diverse, like a white female plutocrat, raised in a wealthy Illinois suburb?

[Fast Walker 52]

63. exactly-- her cred with minorities is bogus

[merrily]

107. Her cred with minorites, though, is different from claiming she is at a

disadvantage of some kind with white voters.

[truedelphi]

106. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ n/t

[Enthusiast]

55. By then the minority community will realize voting for Hillary is against their best interest.

The truth is getting out. Against a united media the truth is slipping out.

[cali]

7. Spin, soin, spin

Hillary is as close to being an incumbent as possible. She had every advantage.

[JaneyVee]

13. And she won.

[AZ Progressive]

16. Pretending to be enthusiastic? I can see right through it

[Fantastic Anarchist]

40. Just by a hair on Vin Diesel's head. Nt

[coyote]

59. And she won HUGE!!!!!11!!!11111111

[RoccoR5955]

64. If a gnat's testicle is huge. n/t

[merrily]

28. Ever listen to yourself? White states don't vote for whites? College kids don't vote for women?

[Ed Suspicious]

68. Hillary doesn't look like she shares your enthusiasm for the win.

[rhett o rick]

117. She got 23 delegates and Sanders got 21. nm

[daleanime]

126. Iowa, the only state with college campuses.....

thanks, it's always good to start the day with a great laugh.

[Enthusiast]

53. The media also spun Bernie negative while spinning positive for Hillary.

We know what the evil fucks did. CNN and PBS among the worst.

[RoccoR5955]

65. Screw them.

That was just pure evil.

[tecelote]

2. Yup.

The chosen one is not as inevitable as they thought and the biggest problem for her now is that Bernie will be heard.

The more people hear Bernie, the more he surges to the top.

The numbers may show a close count but really, Bernie won big time!

[JaneyVee]

4. Women trying to gain power is never "inevitable".

Hillary is the only candidate who was getting slammed with ads by every single candidate on both sides...and still won.

[cali]

8. Gad. What tripe.

[JaneyVee]

11. You dont think Bernie benefitted from GOP ads against her and NONE for him?

He went this entire primary going unattacked while Hillary faced the onslaught.

[JaneyVee]

17. LOL OK.

My god, you guys dont even know whats waiting for you. Look around.

[JaneyVee]

21. Nope. Not posting it here.

[A Simple Game]

70. What's waiting? One of the two started at 80% and the other started at 3%. The one

that started at 80% had to call a 50-50 tie a win. Tell me again who won?

You're right though, some don't even know what's waiting for them.

[GoneFishin]

33. Yep. Resorting to lying and cheating because your challenger is honest and not for sale.

Because without the lies they got nothing.

[merrily]

31. He was NOT unattacked. Media and Republicans both did a job on him.

Paid ads are not the only way people attack a candidate, but he has had some of those as well.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

42. Poor Hillary.

She's so oppressed.

[morningfog]

118. She was an underdog! The comeback kid!

[AZ Progressive]

10. Tell me what ads Bernie has done that has attacked Hillary directly

[JaneyVee]

18. It is.

[JaneyVee]

22. Thanks I know how it works.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

44. Why is it her turn?

[SusanCalvin]

51. Because.

[MichaelSoE]

90. Because just like the Academy Awards

the system is run by the man ... and the man thinks it's a woman's turn. I mean ... oh, you know what I mean. Maybe I'll just self delete this in a few minutes.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

92. I thought it was funny.

Please don't delete.

[merrily]

30. Oh, please. Democrats are dying to vote for a woman, just not Hillary.

[tecelote]

36. +1!

It's past time we had a women President. But, not if it means more war and the status quo.

[MichaelSoE]

91. Right on

If it was Elizabeth Warren I'd be voting for a woman ... but not because she's a woman

[stonecutter357]

41. the democratic party just voted for Hillary.

[merrily]

43. Miss the point much? The poster is claiming being a woman was a problem in Iowa.

FYI, the Democratic Party just voted for Bernie, as well.

[stonecutter357]

46. why are you lashingout at me?

[JTFrog]

94. Grief. n/t

[cui bono]

111. The same amount of the Democratic Party just voted for Bernie.

.

[BigGLiberal]

54. Looks to me like they just did.

[merrily]

56. Point is, Hillary is not losing Democratic votes because she is a woman.

That particular victim card needs to be shelved.

[stonecutter357]

39. +1

[Hortensis]

9. Yes, it was. For positive reasons. He moved the

country forward, opening eyes to possibilities offered by left-wing solutions to problems created by right-wing ideology.

You know, real progressives don't spend their time slogging around in emotional mud fights, they look forward and work for big solutions to big problems. Are you progressive as your name suggests, or just a partisan?

[bulloney]

52. Some of my RW friends attack Bernie by saying he wants the country to be on government handouts.

Free college education. Free health care. Free everything. They mock it every chance they get.

Of course, it's not free and Sanders is up front about it. But to my RW friends mocking the "free" stuff from Sanders, I guess they just want the status quo, where our tax dollars pay to bail out the crooked and unethical Wall Street banks and give the Pentagon a blank check to wage war on any country that doesn't walk, talk and chew gum they way we think they should. I guess that's what they want in a POTUS.

No thank you. If we're going to get change, we have to vote for it. I get so tired of people bitching about how things are but they keep voting the people back into power that cause the problems. And it's because of their political party. If they're a Repub, they'd vote for that candidate no matter what. Around here all that candidate has to do is say he or she is "pro life" and "supports the Second Amendment" and be a total waste of a Congressional seat once they're elected. They literally do nothing. Congress has an approval rating of what? Around 14%? But more than 95% of the incumbents are re-elected? There's a major cognitive disconnect here.

[Hortensis]

60. Or wave the Bible Cruz-style?

People should be AFRAID of him, but they same people latch on to anyone who will sing their church songs, no matter how evil, and because of his actions I do believe Cruz is dangerous and should not be trusted with even a little power.

There is no end to the cognitive disconnects for those who do not respect truth, whatever it is. Right wingers always attack us as moochers who believe we've found ways to rig the system so we don't have to pay for anything. They believe that as happily as some people enjoy insisting Hillary is conservative. At some point people actually come to believe their many irresponsible indulgences and turn into political idiots.

But -- progressivism. It's terribly important that we remember that bettering our nation is our goal. All our Democratic candidates are good people working for the people. We should be proud of them all, and of ourselves for supporting them.

[nil desperandum]

89. Indeed

I get so tired of people bitching about how things are but they keep voting the people back into power that cause the problems.

That comment is spot on what's wrong in the USA today. We give congress a 12% approval rating and put 90+% of incumbents back into the job every election cycle as if that will somehow make things better the next time around....

[ProudToBeLiberal]

23. For the first time in history a woman has won the Iowa Caucuses. This is a big deal nt.

[pnwmom]

47. +1. n/t

[jeff47]

86. For the first time in history, a Jew has won delegates. This is a big deal too. (nt)

[peacebird]

103. Bingo!

[Hoyt]

25. I agree Sanders should be proud. I think you'd be surprised just how much media exposure Sanders had

if you took the time to look.

[merrily]

45. Tyndall Report. As far as being on the Sunday shows, Hillary could have done the same, if she chose

[merrily]

26. Yep.

[BlueMTexpat]

27. Bernie did well and his supporters should

be very proud. For a self-described Democratic Socialist, his performance in Iowa is indeed unprecedented. And yes, he came within a hair.

But why must you be so bitter about this unprecedented and symbolically historical victory for a woman?

[hopemountain]

32. too many reasons why.

not bitter - just stating the truth. it is a tie and hillary did not win.

[BlueMTexpat]

35. Well, it is a virtual tie,

not an actual one, at least per the IA Democratic party.

But have it your way if you must. Clinton supporters can afford to be gracious.

[hopemountain]

37. thank you, graciousness accepted. nt

[BlueMTexpat]

38. In the final analysis,

we are much more alike than not, I truly believe.

[hopemountain]

108. yes

mitakuye oyasin -

[merrily]

34. Why supporters of the winner need to play multiple victim cards may be a better question.

No one is bitter, but Hillary supporters have been posting ridiculous stuff for some reason.

[eridani]

50. Some of us don't like endless war and bailing out banksters. Sanders was not my first

--choice, but Warren decided not to run. Ironic that the woman candidate does not advocate for the best polices for women. She was even gutless enough to call the fake Planned Parenthood video "disturbing."

[Maedhros]

102. I'm not bitter, I just do not want Hillary anywhere near the White House.

I think she will be a horrible President.

[MyNameGoesHere]

48. Please don't eat these

[CSStrowbridge]

49. HA! This is spin!

HA! This is spin.

I was told over and over again that the M$M was pushing propaganda when they showed a poll that had Hillary Clinton ahead and every polls that showed Sanders in the lead was proof that he was assured victory.

[florida08]

57. True

He's working against the DNC and the corporate Oligarch. So yes Bernie sent a message "we're coming". Hillary's message? Thanks. The coin toss thing was ridiculous.

[Enthusiast]

58. This is a mediocre outcome for Hillary.

For all their costly dishonest efforts the ENTRENCHED INTERESTS could not destroy Bernie.

This is a clear loss for the status quo.

[in_cog_ni_to]

61. Clinton lost by not winning! She was INEVITABLE, remember? 50-50 is a TIE. Off to NH to kick her

Arse from here to Timbuktu!

There are still Iowa precincts that haven't reported and one delegate left.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

[Tarc]

62. So this is Camp Sanders' playbook after state #1

Stamp feet, whine, and toss petty insults. Lovely.

The only outstanding question is, will they get more and more shrill as the losses mount, or just fade?

[RiverLover]

67. Your candidate "won" literally by coin tosses. How can you possibly crow like this?

It really does feel like you guys are republicans.

[VulgarPoet]

83. I anticipate an alert on this within the next hour...

...every time I say something to that effect, I wind up getting lucky jury draws.

[cui bono]

114. COIN TOSS!!!

COIN TOSS!!!
COIN TOSS!!!
COIN TOSS!!!



.

[Tarc]

84. Those are the rules, if you don't like em, go find another party

It really does feel like you guys are children

[cui bono]

115. LOL!

Oh the irony of that post is delicious.



.

[joeybee12]

66. pathetic

Who's the spinning? Up is down, right is left

[florida08]

69. Fyi

Ted Cruz won. Hillary will split the delegates with Bernie. Nothing to brag about. This is going to a long campaign. Sportsmanship should be foremost as Hillary just might need Bernie supporters later.

[Bohunk68]

76. It seems that the Clinton people really don't want us, if one goes

by their meme that Bernie supporters are not really Democrats. Ergo, they don't need nor do they want our votes come GE time.

[florida08]

82. Yes that's the problem

If she or they get cocky they will push progressive votes away. Am Not sure I can vote for another corporate POTUS anyway.

[cui bono]

112. They already have.

They've also pushed me to rec threads that show Hillary in a negative light. I used to skip those when this started but the lying, the smears, the attempts at swiftboating Bernie, the sites they started just to spew vile hatred at Bernie and his supporters, all of that plus their substanceless smarmy immature posts made me start reccing and posting away.

And they still think they have taken the high road somehow.

.

[Tarc]

85. It isn't the Hillary supporters that scream about going 3rd party y'know

That is all on some in the Sanders camp I'm afraid. There have been several high-profile Sanders DU'ers banned over the last few months, and over in his DU group they not only crow about it but pin their off-site anti-Hillary rants.

[jeff47]

87. That would kinda emphasize the point that deliberately antagonizing Sanders supporters

Last edited Tue Feb 2, 2016, 02:12 PM - Edit history (1)

is not a terribly good idea.

Weren't the Clinton supporters supposed to be the ones who understand how politics works?

[Tarc]

97. No one's going to beg for your vote

If you think Hill's coming to y'all on bended knee in the Fall, that ain't gonna happen

You'll have to decide for yourself of the 2 eventual candidates which one will be better for leading the country.

[jeff47]

98. And attacks really help make that decision. (nt)

[Tarc]

99. That is entirely up to you

"In a democracy people get the leaders they deserve"

- Joseph de Maistre

[BillZBubb]

105. That's the problem, we don't feel we deserve Hillary.

Settling for a center-right corporatist with more baggage than a fully loaded Boeing isn't too exciting.

We deserve better.

[noiretextatique]

110. We aren't there yet, are we?

And what will you do if Sanders is one of the two?

[Bohunk68]

93. Reread my post. I did not say a word about 3rd party.

If you are going to comment, at least get it right.

[cui bono]

113. No, it's the establishment elite rich that are going 3rd party. Bloomberg for one.

Because they are afraid of Bernie, the real Democrat. And they don't think Hillary can beat him.

.

[pengu]

71. Clinton won on coin flips

If they want to celebrate that, that's fine with me. At the beginning of November she was up 30 points, and she won by nailing 6 out of 7 coin flips. If Bernie wins 4 of those 7, he wins Iowa.

I'm feeling good. I would have been ecstatic if he won, but this is still light years ahead of what he needed to make this a race.

[retrowire]

72. truly. nt

[sarge43]

73. It's a pyrrhic victory n/t

[Renew Deal]

74. Sounds like 2008

[billhicks76]

75. Like Bush v. Gore

[Gothmog]

77. According to the Cook Report, Sanders needed to win 70% of the Iowa delegates to be competitive

According to one of the experts for the Cook Report, Sanders needs to win big in Iowa to have a chance http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/sanders-needs-more-than-a-win-in-iowa-to-beat-clinton

As David Wasserman wrote in the Cook Political Report last week, "98 percent of pledged Democratic delegates will come from states with lower shares of liberal whites than Iowa and New Hampshire." That is a big problem for Sanders who has yet to prove he can expand his base....

Yet, even then, delegate allocation is proportional, which means that Sanders would have to begin winning by major margins to make the race a serious contest.

Wasserman estimates that according to his models, Sanders would "need to win 70 percent of Iowa's delegates and 63 percent of New Hampshire's delegates" to even "be on track" to stay competitive with Clinton in later states where demographically speaking, Clinton has shown she has more support. And in a states like Florida and South Carolina, Clinton leads in recent polls by 36 points and 19 points, respectively.

"It is not merely the delegate process that favors Hillary, it is the voters. She has earned the loyalty and support of communities of color, women, the LGBTQ community, environmentalists, and other vital parts of the Democratic coalition," says Democratic strategist Paul Begala, a Clinton supporter. "Bernie's coalition - so far - is more narrow. It is impressive in its energy and its passion, but it is, I think, more narrow."

The Cook Report has some good analysis

After New Hampshire, Sanders is headed to states that have less than 90+% white voting populations and Sanders is not appealing to African American or Hispanic voters. Super Tuesday will be a long day

[Stuckinthebush]

80. He did need a big win

And yes, Super Tuesday will be a long day for him.

He will win NH, of course, but after that he isn't competitive. He really needed a big Iowa win to give him any chance via momentum.

[Art_from_Ark]

81. What bullshit

Bernie needed only to give the ordained candidate a run for her $$$$$$$$money$$$$$$$$$, which he did, admirably. 50-50.

[Gothmog]

100. Bernie Sanders Needs More Than The Tie He Got In Iowa

Last edited Wed Feb 3, 2016, 01:54 PM - Edit history (1)

Sanders is not polling well in states with less than 90+% white populations and so Sanders needed to do much better in Iowa http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/bernie-sanders-needs-more-than-the-tie-he-got-in-iowa/

We’ve said for months that Iowa and New Hampshire are two of the best states for Sanders demographically. You can see why in the entrance poll taken in Iowa. Sanders won very liberal voters over Clinton by 19 percentage points, but he lost self-identified somewhat liberals and moderates to Clinton by 6 percentage points and 23 percentage points, respectively. That’s bad for Sanders because even though 68 percent of Iowa Democratic caucus-goers identified as liberal this year, only 47 percent of Democratic primary voters nationwide did so in 2008. We’ll need to see if Sanders can do better in a state that is more moderate than Iowa before thinking he can win the nomination.

Iowa and New Hampshire also lack nonwhite voters, who form a huge part of the Democratic base. Can Sanders win over some of these voters? Clinton has held a lead among nonwhites of nearly 40 percentage points in national polls. In Nevada, which votes after the New Hampshire primary, the electorate for the Democratic caucuses in 2008 was 15 percent Hispanic and 15 percent black. After Nevada comes South Carolina, where a majority of Democratic voters will be black. Our polls-only forecast in South Carolina gives Clinton a 94 percent chance to win, and our polls-plus forecast gives her a 96 percent chance to win.

Clinton will continue to be a favorite for the Democratic nomination if she continues to hold a large lead among nonwhite voters and basically breaks even with white voters, as she did in Iowa. Sanders, meanwhile, needs to cut into Clinton’s lead among nonwhites and expand his support among white voters beyond what he won in Iowa. If he does that, he’ll put himself in contention to win the nomination. If he doesn’t, he’ll continue to be an underdog.

[Kentonio]

124. A stupid analysis based on the same regimented thinking

That has left the media looking out of touch throughout this whole race so far.

Sanders is running a populist insurgency campaign that started out with almost zero name recognition, almost no funding and no established organization. He's pushed out roots into all the states via his now massive volunteer base and has been wise enough to supplement that with paid staffers as his available funding grew, but by necessity this has been a fairly organic process. The success or failure of his campaign has been pinned firmly on success in the opening two states (and yes a virtual tie in Iowa is very much a success). He's invested hugely into these areas because if he didn't breakthrough there the race is done.

Now that Iowa is done and once NH landslides, he is in an excellent position to go all in for Nevada and SC on the back of the new media attention and THEN we see whether he has the ability to make major gains with Latinos and AA voters. Anyone assuming those voting groups are naturally locked in for Clinton is completely ignoring the path his campaign has taken through the process.

Don't get me wrong, his nomination is still more unlikely than it is likely. I'm just sick of hearing these supposed 'political experts' ignoring all the actual evidence from the last year and just repeating the same soundbites to each other.

[Orrex]

78. Bernie's performance was indeed a remarkable success story.

Props where due.

[beachbum bob]

79. bernie lost...with all the hoopla....and the fact he did poorly among women voters

once the primaries move away from these first small states...its all over....he did as well as he could expect.

[Bohunk68]

96. Of course he did. Clintonistas are making this a gender thing and doing it quite well.

Amongst Millennials, he got amost 80% of their vote.

[Dem2]

88. Spin from both sides is getting tiresome

It was a fun night not knowing who was the technical "winner" when I went to bed late last night.

Since the delegates are essentially tied, it's time to move on to the next voting day, which looks like a handy win for Bernie.

[cui bono]

116. There's a difference between spin and analysis. n/t

[Dem2]

125. It's spin when the other side does it!

Analysis when I do it.

[wildeyed]

95. Except for the time that guy

named "Barack" did it and actually won

[Bobbie Jo]

120. Exactly.

"Unprecedented" would involve an actual win.

This wasn't it...

[DrDan]

101. it was an admirable second-place

[ecstatic]

104. "has become a virtual enemy of the Democratic Party"

Why is he running to be the leader of a party he hates? Why didn't he run on an independent/ socialist ticket?

[frylock]

122. You got it backwards.

I suspect you know that.

[AZ Progressive]

123. I said "Democratic Party Establishment"

Nice try

[colsohlibgal]

109. Undeniable

MSNBC worked overtime to promote her and ignore Bernie, DSM and the party machine did all it could to tilt it HRC's way. She had Wall Street big money in her pocket.

We'll see - if this win holds it will be razor thin, a virtual tie. In Iowa of all places. Let us see how New Hampshire comes out, see how they spin that.

It just strikes me as strange that everyday people are fine with supporting a candidate in the pocket of Wall Street

[rhett o rick]

119. The Clinton spin is as if winning Iowa meant more than splitting the states 44 delegates.

Clinton got 23 and Sanders 21. And that's it. Winning Iowa only got Clinton a 2 vote lead.

[Uncle Joe]

121. It's possible that Bernie may have gotten more votes than Hillary in Iowa as well.

Iowa's nightmare revisited: Was correct winner called?

Source: Des Moines Register

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141335242

I can understand Republicans hating democracy but it's particularly disappointing when Democrats follow suit.

Thanks for the thread, AZ Progressive.