Comparing crowd sizes last 24 hrs of Bernie & Hillary-The enthisiasm gap

[pinebox]

When the American people have someone they can relate to and believe in, they take to that candidate in swarms!
KAPOW!

How This Weekend’s Bernie Sanders Iowa Rally Compared to Hillary Clinton’s (PHOTOS)
http://usuncut.com/politics/how-this-weekends-bernie-sanders-iowa-rally-compared-to-hillary-clintons/

Saturday night, Bernie Sanders held a rally in Iowa City that brought out approximately 3,800 supporters. In fact, the local fire marshal had to turn away hundreds more who had hoped to see the nation’s lone democratic socialist U.S. Senator speak. The Independent Journal reported that approximately 500 people had to be turned away due to the lack of standing room at the University of Iowa.




In contrast, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton held a rally at the 5 Flags Center in Dubuque, Iowa, but only filled half the room with under 200 supporters. The small showing was likely a huge disappointment for the former First Lady and U.S. Senator, who is trying to rev up excitement for her campaign before the first official contest of the 2016 presidential primary:

There's your enthusiasm gap!

[AtomicKitten]

1. That's the enthusiasm that's fueling the momentum that's going to put Bernie over the top.

k/r

[reformist2]

2. Hillary's gatherings are often walled off to corral her followers into a clump - it looks sad.

It's especially sad when even the walled off area is too big for the crowd that shows up!

[askew]

40. Her event in Des Moines tonight is the same way. They are in a gym with

The bleachers pulled back so you can't tell how empty it is.

Des Moines is prime Hillary country so it should be worrying them that they couldn't get huge turnout there.

[snagglepuss]

55. That shot is the saddest shot ever of a political rally.

Gawd can you imagine how uncomfortable it must have been for everybody. I've seen bigger crowds looking at a Shamwow demo.

[Herman4747]

66. Alas, you should see the gatherings for poor Martin O'Malley...

...who is a fine fellow.

[John Poet]

85. O'Malley should have gotten in early...

I'd read stuff for a couple years that said he was probably going to run for president this year... So why did he wait so long? He didn't even announce until Bernie was already in it, and everyone knew Hillary would run, and Bernie got all the benefit of the anti-Hillary feelings out there. By the time Martin announced, "all the air was already sucked out of the room"...

I feel sorry for him, he deserves more consideration, but he just waited too long until almost all of the activist support was locked up by Bernie or Hillary. He should have started working Iowa hard in late 2014 or earlier, and he could have picked up a good deal more support, I think, that eventually went to Bernie Sanders.

[Ferd Berfel]

3. But since money is Speech

Hillary's crowd has Bernie's beat on the weight of the $$

[hifiguy]

13. I wonder how much they had to pay to get in?

[Ferd Berfel]

16. yea, would luv to knwo that too.

Maybe some patriotic gutsy bartender or busboy will shoot a secret video at one of these?

[merrily]

51. At this point, the campaign should pay people to show up.

[greiner3]

67. Which is why Hillary had to corral the bleachers. One $1

Has no real weight but how much does a couple of million

[libdem4life]

4. This has been going on for some time. I keep thinking that maybe the HRC folk are already decided

so no need to brave the cold weather. And low information voters probably don't know she's there. So, it could make some sense. But momentum and enthusiasm has forward movement...so one can hope.

[in_cog_ni_to]

5. Yes, that comparison stuck out like a sore thumb yesterday!

Bernie definitely has the enthusiasm!

I'm sure none of those rally goers will caucus though! They just like standing in lines for 3 hours to get into a venue for rallies.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

[beam me up scottie]

6. Wow, look at his crowd.

Go Bernie!

[ChisolmTrailDem]

7. My God! Change the date and the challenger and that looks just like the 2008 campaign! nt

[askew]

41. Obama's crowds were much, much bigger.

People forget how massive his movement was in 2007-08.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

47. I didn't forget. I was at Reunion Arena in Dallas to see Sen. Obama speak to...

...a house that was packed to the rafters. Like Bernie is doing this time.

[askew]

49. Not even close in crowd size. And Obama could get bigger crowds in areas outside the

Whitest, most-liberal areas.

I am happy that Bernie may be able to beat Hillary since my candidate, O'Malley, won't be able to. But, it only hurts Bernie when his supporters downplay Obama's campaign and his accomplishments. Remember Obama is the most popular Dem in Iowa by far. He has 90% approval ratings there. If Bernie wants to win, his supporters can't be shitting on Obama. Not sure his supporters get that.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

65. Another Bernie arena shot...

Looks like Obama-level support to me.

[Fawke Em]

77. Sorry - you're wrong.

He's pulling the same OR MORE than Obama:

http://iowastartingline.com/2016/01/25/bernie-sanders-just-passed-his-50000-iowa-crowd-turnout-mark/

[LiberalLovinLug]

81. The thing is

All those ex-Obama voters, in that more liberal State, it was less about the person of Obama, and more excitement about his stated progressive ideals. So that enthusiasm will transfer over to Sanders, not Hillary.

[Unknown Beatle]

92. You're spot on.

Obama promised progressive change, but once in the WH, his first appointees were Rahm Emanuel and Timothy Geithner. I thought at the time that it was strange that we're in the Great Recession and he picked a wall st. insider to run the department of the treasury. That's because Obama was anything but progressive.

Since the population of the US didn't see the change that Obama promised, the crowds that were there for Obama, are there for Bernie now.

[askew]

93. It was for Obama and not his progressive ideals. People fell in love with Obama.

Iowa Dems still love him. He has a 90% approval rating among them and Sanders palling around with Michael Moore, Cornell West and Bill Press is going to hurt him with those supporters.

[Vincardog]

95. Please post a link to any Bernie supporter shitting on Obama, this Bernie supporter has a

Hard time believing it.

[askew]

97. You must not be on Twitter. Bernie supporters have been attacking Obama for months

And harassing his AA supporters. It's gotten pretty ugly.

Sanders is my 2nd choice so it's hard to see so many diehard Obama supporters who loathed Hillary getting pushed into backing her because O'Malley is struggling and Bernie's supporters have been so abusive coupled with Bernie surrounding himself with some real odious anti-Obama zealots.

[Vincardog]

98. I don't really believe in judging as candidate by his alleged "Followers" actions. It is your vote.

[rhett o rick]

101. It's a lame attempt to influence. If one changes their vote because of a candidates supporters

they can't be very committed anyway. But I don't believe anyone does.

[askew]

103. It's not just followers. It is the surrogates that Sanders is using on the campaign trail.

He is really showing that he doesn't understand AA voters when he keeps using Cornell West as his top AA surrogate. That guy is an anti-Obama lunatic and is mocked by Obama supporters.

[Vincardog]

104. You base your vote on anything you want. Based on POLICIES I vote BERNIE.

[merrily]

52. Which numbers do you consider much bigger than Bernie's crowds?

[greiner3]

68. You forget this is IOwa first of February

Obama's historic crowds. March through most of the election. Wonder what the Way Back Machine would show

[dreamnightwind]

8. This can't be

Just this morning I heard on M$NBC, pretty sure it was Joy Reid, with a straight face, saying how there was more enthusiasm from Hillary supporters than Bernie supporters. The dishonesty and spin is over the top. Thanks for the OP.

[Lazy Daisy]

30. And with that overwhelming turnout

Hillary has, all down ticket Dem's will win.

If Hillary is nominated, we're toast next fall.

[dreamnightwind]

31. I agree

I think she can win the general election (though I can't stand the thought of having her for POTUS), but regardless, if she is our nominee, she'll have negative coattails, and Democrats will continue to be blamed for shoving corporatist policies that benefit the wealthy down the throats of Americans. We have Repubicans for that, our party should be an alternative to corporate rule. Anyway IMHO that's why we have lost Congress to Republicans.

[elljay]

35. MSNBC

I have MSNBC on now, in the background, and they just said that Bernie's campaign having more enthusiasm has turned out to be not true, as Hillary's contributors have shown even more enthusiasm (not a verbatim quote, but you get the gist). Note that the comparison is between Bernie's SUPPORTERS and Hillary's CONTRIBUTORS. While Bernie's supporters ARE his contributors, that is not necessarily so for Hillary. She takes money from many large contributors.

Compare the two candidates on OpenSecret.org. You will see that Bernie's top contributor is Alphabet (aka Google) for 50,000 and his 20th largest contributor is the anonymous "Mr." who gave about 7,000. Hillary's top contributor is Saban Capital (hedge fund I presume) for more than $2 million and her 20th is Epoch Properties for $258,000. In other words, her 20th largest contributor gave 5 times more than Bernie's largest. Comparing the enthusiasm level of the tens of thousands of small Bernie contributors and volunteers to that of Hillary's hedge fund managers contributors is disingenous at best.

Bernie: https://www.opensecrets.org/pres16/contrib.php?cycle=2016&id=N00000528&type=f
Hillary: https://www.opensecrets.org/pres16/contrib.php?cycle=2016&id=N00000019

[dreamnightwind]

37. Excellent info, thanks

This campaign has sadly shown me that Democrats are just as capable of being disingenuous as Repubicans. Corporate spin everywhere. I used to have some respect for MSNBC, no more. I expected as much from CNN, and they don't disappoint, it's all about Trump and Hillary, and if they ever cover Bernie it's about why he can't win.

It was funny how, in one of the debates, Bernie said his dream job would be to be president of CNN! He said he'd cover the news a lot differently than they do.

[dreamnightwind]

74. Dunno, you? It's gonna be close

I think I heard this morning that the source of the Joy Reid talking point about Hillary's supporters being more came from some recent Quinnipiac poll (hopefully I heard right, was still sleepy), so apparently she at least had something to base her statement on.

From everything I've seen there is no contest, the Sanders supporters are far more enthusiastic, the Clinton supporters more organized and better financed.

[dreamnightwind]

80. I heard the Clintons have over 4,000 stations in Iowa

working to get people to caucus for them. Money isn't everything but it isn't nothing either, it buys a lot of infrastructure and can pay for a lot of campaign labor that the Sanders people have to use volunteers for, not exactly what I'd call a level playing field.

[rhett o rick]

99. The difference is that volunteers have enthusiasm. You can't buy enthusiasm. nm

[dreamnightwind]

100. I hope you're right!

[sammythecat]

84. What are you getting at?

What do you think? You think he's going to win?

Will I get an answer?

Doubt it.

[libdem4life]

86. The Quinnipiac poll I saw this morning had Bernie up by 2 or 3, but he was ahead.

[libdem4life]

90. I think that is the only one...most had HRC ahead by about the same margin.

I believe the last Q poll, as I recall a few days ago, had her ahead by the same margin.

[JDPriestly]

91. Have you done any calling?

Iowans have been called and polled and squeezed and hugged and beaten up so many times on their phones that they must be (and some definitely are) really tired of it.

I wonder whether they can get through a meal without someone calling them.

And those who are supporting a candidate, say Bernie, are out and canvassing and putting door hangers on door knobs.

It's a wild time. I doubt that the polls are very accurate. Lots of elderly people in nursing homes; lots of people who are not going to be able to caucus.

[zappaman]

9. Ok. n/t

[Punkingal]

10. Some political reporter on Face The Nation said

Hillary is not getting crowds because people know her and have seen her before.

[bigdarryl]

50. Total bullshit crowd sizes f on mean shit

Obama had massive crowd sizes in NH much more than Hillary and guess what the results were

[Mopar151]

96. Many reasons why this is a different election.

Like who is running on the Republican side, and, sadly, the color and name of the current POTUS. NH is not particularly racist, but they are slow to warm to "outsiders" in general, and folks who they haven' heard of.. By the time he arrived back in NH for the "Unity" rally, NH was solid for him. For that matter - that rally took place in my Uncle Tiny's back yard. You'd have to know my Uncle very well to understand how Esquire could quote him briefly verbatim and completely miss the larger picture with his "rants like a Negro" comment. He sincerely wanted to hear what the man had to say, and (all my uncles, dad too) profound hearing loss combined with an unfamiliar speaking style makes that hard. OTOH, he had NO trouble telling Sen. Ayotte why she wasn't getting his vote!
Bernie is pretty well known hereabouts, and fairly well regarded.
If the Sanders campaign could evoke some of the old "Give 'em Hell, Harry" ethos, It would resonate very well with my "homies".

"I give em' the truth, and they think it's Hell!" That'll work!

- Oh yeah, push the big banks as villans deal. They thought the term "bankster" was the funniest/not funniest thing theyd heard in years when it came around.

[SheilaT]

56. If I'm enthusiastic for a candidate,

and if it's reasonably convenient to see the candidate, I'll happily go to multiple events. Sounds like a bullshit explanation.

[frylock]

57. That's why the Stones never draw.

[Beartracks]

76. ROFL

============

[LiberalElite]

70. yeah that's the problem

They know her.

[Jarqui]

11. Same town, Dubuque, Bernie drew 1,300, maybe same day or close to it:

[hifiguy]

12. Gee, I wonder what that could mean?

Go Bernie!!!

[Ino]

14. Hillary spins tiny crowd in Des Moines as ‘standing room only’

Pollster Frank Luntz even commented on the tiny crowd, saying it looked “barely bigger than the press pool”

Photos at link...

[frylock]

21. Note to Hillary Supporter: do not follow that link..

brutal.

[Autumn]

25. Forget the pics being brutal the comments are what's brutal

[frylock]

32. Yep!

[polly7]

23. Good grief. They could have each brought in their own recliner. nt.

[cherokeeprogressive]

29. Where were they standing... a porta-potty?

[reformist2]

43. Pretty soon they'll be meeting in the broom closet to make sure it's SRO!

[merrily]

53. Had the press been telling us every time that they are the bulk of the attendee, though?

I don't think so.

Good grief, if that had ever been true of a Sanders' event, Sanders would have been getting coverage a lot sooner and "pitiful attendance" would have been the headline of every story.

[whopis01]

64. In her defense

there were no chairs provided for the crowd

[morningfog]

71. Only because they didn't offer any chairs.

[Sophiegirl]

15. Enthusiasm vs. passion

Here are my thoughts.

When it comes down to brass tacks, Bernie supporters are passionate. Yes, enthusiastic, but more importantly, passionate. This passion drives them to fight for change. And a snowstorm won't keep them away. Hillary supporters may very well believe the hype that she is the inevitable nominee and decide to stay home, safe and warm.

It's all about the passion for real change that affects the "we" for all. It will be the deciding factor.

[merrily]

54. A lot of them are downright desperate, too.

[SoapBox]

17. And saw someplace...15,000+ volunteers in the state.

Link? Nope. Can I personally verify? Nope.

But...we have had so many personal reports...offices jammed, too many showing up and being redirected to other towns/areas...and even one last week of those phone banking, saying that they had run out of numbers to call!

This is HUGE!

...and pathetically down played by the scared shitless, tired, old school, Third Way, Cushy Entrenched Establishment DINOs...stupid or totally scared shitless...who knows...who cares.

Go Bernie!

And a hearty GO Berners!

[Spitfire of ATJ]

18. Reminds me of something....

[frylock]

19. I don't know how anyone looks at these pics and still thinks she stands a chance..

all they have left to hang their hopes on is low-voter turnout and parlor tricks.

[askew]

42. Her hope is that Bernie's supporter are concentrated in a few college & major cities.

That's what happened to Dean in 2004. And there is some worry with it. Bernie hasn't done as much outreach to the Western part of the state where Hillary cleaned up on delegates in 2008. As an O'Malley supporter, the best thing that could happen for us is a strong Bernie win with O'Malley pulling a decent size 3rd. If Hillary wins Iowa, she is going to get some momentum and it will be hard for Sanders or O'Malley to pull off upsets in NV, SC or Super Tuesday.

[Mopar151]

105. I see a lot of Bernie signs where there never were signs...

Older people in NH tend to think of Howard Dean as more suited to monarchy than democracy. The 'Inevitable Canidate" thing works against Hilary here as the election gets closer.

[askew]

106. NH is Bernie country. He should do fine there except if a lot of independents vote in GOP

Primary instead.

But, NH (and IA) are very different from the other states Bernie will need to win. I don't see that translating to other states outside of Maine and Vermont unless he can find a way to reach older white voters in the Midwest and minority voters.

[Mopar151]

108. Keep going after the banks and financiers.

Anyone who was not stinking rich during the Depression, and tells their descendents about it, spreads the hate of bankers. Woody Guthrie's songbook hardly needs updating to hand out at Bernie rallies.

[Dont call me Shirley]

20. And the media says it's a "close race"?! I don't think soooooo!

[zentrum]

22. What's amazing too

…is how he had to overcome being ignored——to the point of being barely mentioned--- by the media, for months. And the incredible power of the Clinton Machine.

He's getting it done against huge odds. And that's the kind of President he'll be too.

[Perogie]

24. Now Clinton supporters are saying...

I've seen posts at DU from Clinton supporters that are saying if Bernie only wins Iowa by a few percent then it's a loss for him.
He has to win by big numbers or it means Hillary won.

I guess they are seeing the writing on the wall and trying to move the goal post. Wasn't too long ago they said he'd never poll out of the 20's. Now it's he has to win Iowa huge or it's bad news for Bernie.

[KingCharlemagne]

45. Cue Casablanca: "We'll always have . . . South Carolina." :rofl: - nt

[Attorney in Texas]

26. WOW! K&R

[ucrdem]

27. And tomorrow they'll be

[saltpoint]

28. Can speak only to the photographs

you've given us and it looks to me like one hell of a lot of people.

I'm guessing they intended to be there and didn't stumble in by accident.

Hope every last one of 'em shows up to caucus tomorrow evening.

This Sanders guy has got it together.

[riversedge]

33. Your photos in your OP are very deceptive. I corrected these yesterday but

will do it again.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1096286



I saw a post somewhere here on DU this morning in which a picture was posted and a comment (paraphrasing this) for Jan 29. The comment said something to the effect of -lots of press but nothing else. A few responses followed with snark about small crowds.
Anyway, the pic that the Sanders supporter posted was the press setting up before the Town Hall in Dubuque Iowa.


So--to correct the record I am posting a few pics of Hillary's Jan 29 Town Hall in Dubuque once the event got going.

** And just to be clear---I do not care about whether or not the crowd was large or small. We all know that Hillary does Town Halls where she can interact and communicate with the audience. Large rallies are not conducive to that.

Enjoy the pics








"She's never touched a thing she didn't make better," Bill Clinton says of Hillary.

And earlier in Dubuque:

Clinton on 2000 election: "We went off and elected another -- Well, the Supreme Court went off and selected another Republican president."






Austin Lyle ?@AustinLyle 14h14 hours ago

Standing room only here in DBQ this afternoon!






Jordan Nixon ?@Jordan__Nixon 15h15 hours ago

Packed room for @HillaryClinton in Dubuque tonight!! DBQ ❤️s HRC!!




Sabrina Siddiqui ?@SabrinaSiddiqui 13h13 hours ago

"We've got to defend what we've achieved," Clinton says. "Stick with the Affordable Care Act. Stick with me on this."


Clinton: "Before it was called Obamacare, it was called Hillarycare."
@SabrinaSiddiqui 14h14 hours ago Davenport, IA

Clinton campaign says roughly 1500 here in Davenport tonight at campaign event feat. both Bill and Hillary.

Bill and Hillary Clinton take the stage together in Davenport





Nick Merrill ?@NickMerrill 14h14 hours ago

Great turnout to see @HillaryClinton and @billclinton in Davenport, IA tonight.





Nick Marroletti ?@NickMarroletti 14h14 hours ago

Scott County is all in for @HillaryClinton. This is what #enthusiasm looks like.








Hillary Clinton ?@HillaryClinton 14h14 hours ago

Heart to heart in Newton, IA.



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZ7mE6QWcAAvMVv.




Hillary for Iowa ?@HillaryforIA 13h13 hours ago

"We need a fighter. @HillaryClinton is that fighter. The stakes have never been higher.”
– Cecile Richards, @PPact

[pinebox]

34. Welcome to zoom lens compression

Look again.
These are your pictures #1-#3

[riversedge]

36. LOL

[pinebox]

44. It's funny?

You're speaking to a photographer.
http://photographio.com/mastering-lens-compression/

[frylock]

59. I took it to be more of a nervous laugh.

[Perogie]

60. Just want to point out one thing

If you make the room smaller then it can be filled by fewer people. Notice the black curtains creating a smaller room in a larger auditorium. Do you see that in any of the Bernie rally photos?

Put 200 people in a room 60'x 60' and it's standing room only. Put them in an auditorium with out the black curtains and it a small turn out.

[cui bono]

63. Why are you posting those pics in defense of Hillary's crowd size?

All you are doing is proving she has tiny crowds as compared to Bernie's crowds.



.

[bvar22]

94. Why are ALL of your photos so Close Cropped.

Do you have any that show the whole room?
Most of your photos show a couple of hundred supporters at the most,
and 25% (at least) are Media and Camp Followers.

[Divernan]

38. Keep posting these pictures! Love 'em!

Put them in every thread where the HRC folks are whistling in the dark about how Hill is going to win Iowa. That Hillary "rally", repurposed as an intimate gathering, is so feeble. You could call it standing room only since they couldn't even put out 200 chairs.

I can hear the Clinton campaign strategy. See guys, if we just put a couple of rows of chairs out, then we'll have a couple of rows of people standing. then we jam them all up close to each other, stage pictures from the back and, Mook's your uncle, it looks like a crowd!

[Arugula Latte]

39. Oh dear.

That "crowd" for Hill is kinda ... pathetic.

[book_worm]

46. Yes, hopefully those crowds will actually turn out

[Rosa Luxemburg]

48. I hope so

[Logical]

58. Kick

[xfundy]

61. Pitiful for Hillary. Bernie obviously reflects voter seniments.

[cui bono]

62. I'm sorry, but if he doesn't win Iowa then something fishy has to be going on.

The crowds are an obvious illustration of who has more support imho.

.

[Lucinda]

78. Not at all. Hillary went with small intimate crowds specifically

For example, people were making fun of her bowling alley visit the other day at one of her last campaign stops, but there was a reason for it:

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/01/27/with-bowling-alley-visit-hillary-clinton-closes-a-circle-in-iowa/

This campaign has been all about making one on one connections with voters, and fact finding, much as she did when she ran for her Senate seat in NY. The smaller crowds allowed a more intimate setting where she was specifically asking them for their support. Totally different approach than Sanders larger more traditional rallies.

[Helen Borg]

69. That sad Clinton picture...

I can imagine the scene, with the microphone going into Larsen...

[Myrina]

72. Holy crap, there was a bigger crowd at my college to see her as First Lady in 1996 ...

[Jarqui]

79. Grandview University - visits a day or two apart

Clinton:



Sanders

[Gamecock Lefty]

82. Bernie is drawing Howard Dean-like crowds.

Whatever happened to him???

[Goblinmonger]

88. Hillary was leading going into Iowa in 2008

Whatever happened to her?

[PatrynXX]

83. was that way in cedar falls the other day

at and I'm gonna ruin the name Galligar Bludorn (yeah never went to UNI. brother did) I've been there once. Hillary supporters were hoping more would show up. I think the speaker I went to see on Business drew more people smh and nobody's heard of him.

[Iggy Knorr]

87. 'Ok, now everybody bunch up and look real populist!'

[rhett o rick]

102. To be fair, that picture is before photoshop. nm

[d_legendary1]

107. Just zoom in real close to HRC's podium to show lots of support

Its how the media frames the ever so "populist" HRC as the people's champ.