It's a nice thought, but Bernie Sanders can't win

[wyldwolf]

In my heart, I #FeelTheBern.

I believe in universal health care coverage, generous minimum wages, an extension of the public education model through college and tight leashes on big banks, all of which are being advanced by the Democratic presidential campaign of Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders and symbolized on Twitter by the hashtag #FeelTheBern.

I admire Sanders' comparative purity and integrity, his inspiring rhetoric, his boldness, his idealism. And I like how he has moved the party to the left and drawn greater attention to the problem of vast income inequality.

But in my mind, I #FeelTheCrash.

I think through the political ramifications of Sanders at the top of the Democratic ticket in November, and "The Bern" (supporters' shorthand for exhilaration over Sanders' refreshing candidacy) becomes heartburn.

He's a 74-year-old secular Jew who identifies as a democratic socialist. None of that bothers me as a liberal voter, but there's enough ageism, religious bigotry and reflexive horror at the idea of socialism among the broad electorate that, if he wins the nomination, Sanders would probably lose every state — even his home state of Vermont.

Yes, in theoretical head-to-head matchups, recent national polling averages show Sanders beating potential Republican rivals Donald Trump, Ted Cruz and Jeb Bush by slightly larger margins than his main rival for the Democratic nomination, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton (who, in those same matchups, actually loses to Cruz).

But the Republican attack machine has been relentlessly pounding Clinton while saying little about Sanders. Hmm? Anyone wonder why?

If and when the GOP goes after Sanders, it will be with commercials pointing out that the portion of his vision that isn't even half-baked is pure fantasy; that his plans rely not only on him being elected president but also on a coast-to-coast progressive revolution at the ballot box that would give him control of Congress; and that he has almost no foreign-policy experience. All over a choral bed of "socialist, socialist, socialist, socialist."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/zorn/ct-bernie-sanders-trump-cruz-zorn-perspec-0131-20160129-column.html

[merrily]

6. No one who is honest about feeling the Bern writes articles like that.

I love Bernie and everything for which he advocates, but...



The Bernie Butters sure are spreading something around, but it sure doesn't smell like love of Bernie and the programs for which Bernie advocates. Smells like bull puckies.

[FreakinDJ]

16. Another Hilary Crony

All these media outlets stand to gain immensely by the passage of the TPP

[merrily]

17. A dishonest, bigoted article.

[FreakinDJ]

21. And as publicly stated Hillary has told them Don't worry about TPP

The fix is in

[RBInMaine]

31. It sounds like you're "Feeling the Paranoia".

[FreakinDJ]

36. Not at all - This too shall backfire on Hillary

She'll feel the backlash come Monday

[Cali_Democrat]

9. Your response is violence? nt

[DefenseLawyer]

24. Only if Health Wagon is really Batman. n/t

[JackRiddler]

33. Thanks for the lulz.

Violence!

[KingCharlemagne]

37. Sigh. Pathetic - nt

[Cali_Democrat]

65. That poster was just banned

The threats of violence weren't appreciated.

[KingFlorez]

39. Some need to have sense beat into them to Feel the Bern

Don't you know you have to slap the sense into people sometimes? It's a time honored tradition

[workinclasszero]

13. That's kinda scary

Don't you think?

[cantbeserious]

2. Spreading Ever More FUD - So Predictable

eom

[merrily]

5. +1

[merrily]

3. We'll soon see. Meanwhile, I am supporting Sanders.

[Broward]

7. Can Hillary Win?

She'd depress turnout on the Left. If up against Trump, he'd relentlessly go after her TPP support and her Iraq War vote. She's a flawed candidate.

[JackRiddler]

41. Actually, the Left...

will reliably vote for her candidacy, as it tends to do due to lesser-evil logic and despite being branded "retards" and the like by Democratic party leaders.

She'd depress turnout generally, as people are sick of her for both good and bad reasons.

Probably she'd win against Trump, as the sane portion of the electorate actually constitutes a majority and is concentrated in states that give a strong electoral advantage.

Even more true of Sanders, who will raise turnout among groups with normally low turnout.

This what-if stuff distracts from the primary question: Whom do you actually want to see. Screw the speculation, vote for what you want!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

8. NO, WE CAN'T!

[Rosa Luxemburg]

10. When the GOP go after Hillary she will be toast

If the GOP go after Bernie it will be water off a duck's back.

[AZ Progressive]

12. If I was being a realist like you, I would think...

That the Corporate Establishment will do everything they can to make sure Sanders doesn't get elected, including assassination.

However, I do believe that someone needs to stand up to the corporate bullies that run America and Bernie Sanders, being almost 75 years old, has lived a full life and is prepared to be a martyr if needed. You can kill a leader but you can't kill an idea. It's Bernie and his follower's job to spread revolutionary progressive ideas to the point that the corporate establishment won't be able to stomp them out.

[politicaljunkie41910]

62. Can't someone have an opinion that differs from yours without your surmise that someone

would want them dead. And how do you know that Bernie's willing to die for his ideas? Has he discussed this with you? If not, spare us your flare for the dramatics.

[bowens43]

14. more mindless bullshit

hillary will never be president and if democrats are stupid enough to give her the nomination say hello to poresident trump.

By the way she'll probably be under indictment by then

[AZ Progressive]

18. BTW Hillary will just continue to help to sell off America and we DON'T need more of that

[cherokeeprogressive]

19. Less than an hour before you posted this you were begging students and millennials.

Too fuck'n funny.

[wyldwolf]

22. Yep! I write for huff po and Chicago Tribune...

... Under two different names.

Too fuck'n funny.

[Ed Suspicious]

29. Then how about you try some fucking quotation marks.

[tblue37]

30. Even better--he could use the "excerpt" button and put the

quoted material in a box with a gray backround.

[Ed Suspicious]

35. You taught this old dog a new trick! Thanks.

Even better--he could use the "excerpt" button and put the quoted material in a box with a gray background.

[wyldwolf]

34. Links are sufficient for most people

In the future I'll be sure to write a disclaimer just for you.

[Ed Suspicious]

38. Not for me, but for the author of the article from whom you are plagiarizing.

[wyldwolf]

40. wow! This article really has you seeing red!

LOL.

[KingCharlemagne]

42. It almost smells like plagiarism - nt

[tblue37]

44. Still, why not use the excerpt button so the quoted material appears in a gray box to

avoid any possibility of confusion:

Like so.

[wyldwolf]

45. Because It isn't my job to make sure you're not confused

Why not tell the site the admins that people who don't use gray boxes are plagiarizing?

[tblue37]

47. Actually, I teach writing, and one of the first things I tell my students is that

it is the writer's job to make his point clear, because in most cases he won't be there to straighten things out if the reader gets confused.

[wyldwolf]

49. So?

Why not tell the site admins you teach writing and they'd better change their rules or else????!!!

[tblue37]

54. I said nothing about the rules. I just pointed out that you could prevent your readers from

misinterpreting your posts. Most people actually want their writing to be understood by their readers.

I often see multiple posts in threads responding to an OP as though the OP were the person who wrote the material posted, when in fact the OP is just posting material someone else has written. This happens even when the OP clearly identifies the source of the material. Perhaps people read too quickly or too carelessly, or maybe they just skim the first part of a passage.

But I have noticed that when the excerpted material is set off by the "excerpt" button, those awkward responses don't happen.

I didn't always know that we had an "excerpt" button available--I simply never noticed it up there. Before I realized the "excerpt"button was there, I used other devices to ensure that material I was posting from another site was clearly set off from my own words.

I used HTML tags so the quoted passage would be set off in a blockquote (I didn't realize we had a "blockquote" button then, either!); I used HTML tags also so the quoted passage was in a different font color; and I even used HTML tags to make the font for my own words one size larger.

It was a lot of work, especially when posting from my stupid little 7" tablet. I was soooo relieved when I discovered that "excerpt" button. (Maybe I would have noticed those convenient buttons if I hadn't been posting on that little tablet.)

[wyldwolf]

67. Never been an issue with anyone before. Maybe you have a problem with comprehension?

[tblue37]

72. I wasn't the one who mistook the OP for your own writing. nt

[aidbo]

74. The poster you responded to so rudely was politely trying to educate you.

Your insult is uncalled for and reflects poorly on you.

[wyldwolf]

75. the poster I was responding to before should stick to the topic

No one needs his 'education.'

DU's TOS asks that sources be "clearly identified." Since early 2002, a link has sufficed.

[Sheepshank]

60. Wow...you really need a chill pill

Missing Quotation marks....the fuss is about quotation marks!

[wyldwolf]

76. SUDDENLY there's an issue with providing a link to an article.

DU's TOS only states sources have to be identified and text followed by the link has been standard practice since 2002.

[NowSam]

20. Bernie must win

It is clear to all with eyes to see Hilary = Jeb or Trump or any of them. She = the status quo.

Bernie must win.

[angrychair]

23. Good friends

Vote for a "Dem" that spends her personal time, away from the public eye, with the Bushes and Trumps and counts them as her friends.
Yep, not sure about you but I would never call war criminals and xenophobic racist my friends.

[Armstead]

25. If and when the GOP goes after Sanders it will be on ideology -- And that would be an improvement

I would much rather see a fight between GOP Corporate CONservatisam and liberal/progressive values than the crappy non-debates we have had for 35 years.

I believe in the principles that Sanders -- and I also believe in a real contest we can win that debate. Let the GOP fling their shit. If we fling back the truth, I am convinced we CAN win in a much larger sense.

[DefenseLawyer]

26. By the way, Clinton fans did the same whisper campaign against Barack Obama in '08

Well, sure he gives nice speeches and excites the base but let's get serious, a black man is never going to get elected.

[Ed Suspicious]

27. No you don't. The Bern isn't something you can just shrug off because a prettier pony crosses

your gaze. Nope. No change. You are definitely not "Feeling the Bern."

[reformist2]

28. They lost me when they said he'd lose every state, even Vermont.

[KingCharlemagne]

32. Even assuming you are correct, Hillary can't win either. Hatred of her among Repubs will

drive them to the polls en masse, and Independents dislike and distrust her.

If I'm going to have to try to survive under a fascist dictatorship presided over by Trump or Cruz, I want to go into it knowing I supported and voted for a Socialist and nOT some van Papen-like figure.

[BainsBane]

43. In my heart #Imwithher

and I don't consider the alternative a nice thought at all.

I, however, wholly reject the idea that being a Jew somehow mitigates against his being president. Fear of bigotry is not a reason not to vote for someone. In fact, that justification only serves to reinforce bigotry.

I don't support Bernie because I don't believe him capable of executing the job of the president, because I do not believe his promises, and am increasingly troubled by what were are learning about the campaign. His being a Jew is not among the factors I consider.

It's not like Clinton isn't met with continual sexism herself.

[Karma13612]

46. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO.

Keep telling yourself this stuff.

Me, I'm voting for the winner, the one who stands for the 99% with no apologies or games.

[frylock]

48. More condescending claptrap.

The pants-shitting is positively palpable. #fearthebern

[jfern]

50. Bernie has been attacked quite a bit

And it seems like Hillary's e-mails are getting to be more of a liability.

[AzDar]

51. Bernie CAN and WILL win...

Feel The Bern, Indeed!

[redstateblues]

52. If Bernie wins the nomination

He will have some serious vulnerabilities that could be exploited in the GE by Republicans who would have no problem lying and twisting his words. There is no point listing them here as the hubris of most BSS believe he is perfect and has no weaknesses as a candidate. Surely his peeps are coming up with effective strategies to handle those issues in the same way that Obama did in his brilliantly run campaign.

[daleanime]

53. Not too hard to read between the lines....

because we won't let him.

[november3rd]

55. It's About All Of Us,

Not just him.

[californiabernin]

56. The Republicans are in denial about Sanders. Bernie Sanders is the realist we should elect.

In conclusion <snip>:

In the face of the Sanders surge, Clinton supporters have resorted to the “electability argument”: that Sanders can’t be elected because he’s too far left. Put aside the irony of Clinton dismissing the electoral viability of someone she might lose to. Clinton has inevitable baggage of her own that raises doubts about her electoral prospects. And Clinton’s decision to present herself as the candidate of continuity in a time of change is problematic. In contrast, the positions Sanders champions — Medicare for All, cleaning up politics, curbing Wall Street, a less-interventionist foreign policy, rebuilding the United States, tuition-free college, fair taxes for the rich and corporations — are all extremely popular. Furthermore, Democrats have a natural electoral majority if they turn out. Even the Clinton campaign worries about her ability to rouse the young and people of color as Obama did. In contrast, Sanders has clearly electrified millennials with his message and integrity. A voter using his head rather than his heart might well be conflicted on the question of electability.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/bernie-sanders-is-the-realist-we-should-elect/2016/01/26/6af4d268-c392-11e5-a4aa-f25866ba0dc6_story.html

[jeff47]

57. Cowardice just cedes the field to the Republicans.

One only has to have been conscious the last 40 years to see the results.

[coyote]

58. Yes he can

[NurseJackie]

68. This wasn't thought through very well ...

... for obvious reasons.

[HERVEPA]

61. Thank you for your concern.

[Dems to Win]

63. Hillary Clinton Can't Win

1. Iraq War vote -- anti war activists may hold their nose and vote for her, but many won't

2. $250,000 speeches to CitiBank - OWS activists may hold their nose and vote for her, but many won't

3. Sexual Harasser in Chief - many feminists will vote for Hillary, but some will balk at returning Bill to the White House in any capacity

4. Forward, Not Back - nothing more same-old same-old than returning the same married couple to the White House who left it 16 years ago. The 90s are done and in the history books.

5. All Drama, All The Time Clintons. After 8 years of No Drama Obama, not a whiff of personal scandal, who wants to return to the Clinton years?

6. The Saudis are not our friends. Anyone who gets $25 million from the Saudis for their Foundation is not who we need in the White House.

7. The wedding party pic with her good buddy Donald Trump. Ordinary Americans aren't part of the wealthy club, and there's no point in voting for one or another member, so many people will just stay home in disgust.

[Joe the Revelator]

64. Remember when we elected a black guy??

Shit was crazy.

[Ron Green]

66. SOTD

Congrats.

[Warren Stupidity]

69. Nope and No Change 2016!

Sheesh. Talk about a losing campaign.

[Hiraeth]

70. CAN'T NEVER COULD DO NOTHING !! YOUR CONCERN IS DULY NOTED.

[DesertRat]

71. K&R

[SidDithers]

73. DU rec...nt

Sid

[Odin2005]

77. NO WE CAN'T! NO WE CAN'T! NO WE CAN'T!

[grntuscarora]

78. I'm 60 and damned tired of being told to suck it up.

I'm sick of hearing that this is the fuckin' best we can do, and that deviance from the established rules and authorized D candidate is going to result in fuckin' disaster.

Ain't listenin' no more.

Even if what you say is true, I'd still rather go down swinging for a better future for my kids than meekly accept more of the same old shit.

I owe it to them to try.

PS I couldn't access your ct link without paying, so sorry if I didn't. But I think I caught enough of the general drift to respond.