2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumTo Students and Millennials: Take Another Look at Hillary Clinton
For over twenty-five years Republicans and the elite east coast media have tried to bring down Hillary and Bill Clinton. They have been stymied by the truth and by all both Clintons have accomplished for the country.
Contrary to what Bernie Sanders and his campaign have said; groups representing women, the LGBT community and workers who have endorsed Hillary are not the establishment. Unions representing 15 million workers have endorsed her. Women's organizations providing needed healthcare to poor women including NARAL and Planned Parenthood endorsed her. Organizations representing the LGBT community including HRC, LPAC and California Equality have endorsed her. Those fighting climate change like the League of Conservation Voters have endorsed her. They understand it is Hillary who has spent her lifetime fighting the establishment alongside them and will continue to do that as President.
There are members of the Democratic establishment who endorsed her. They include hundreds of past and present members of Congress with nearly all members of the Progressive Caucus; twelve sitting Democratic governors; hundreds of Democratic office holders across the nation; and multiple newspaper editorial boards. All because they trust Hillary can get the things she says she wants to do done.
So does this matter? Do hundreds of endorsements for Hillary prove Sanders is the anti- establishment candidate? The answer to that is NO! Every caucus goer, especially college students and millennials who will caucus for the first time, need to do some research before they attend a caucus on Monday night. If they do they may just realize if they want to make headway on the progressive issues they care about; making college more affordable or free; reducing interest costs on college loans; improving our nation's healthcare system making it more equitable and cost effective for everyone; reforming our judicial system so Black Lives Matter is more than a slogan; reforming our immigration system to provide a real pathway to citizenship for those now here illegally; they just might end up caucusing for Hillary.
The facts! Bernie is a politician and has been in Washington D.C. longer than Hillary. His only real job has ever been as a politician. First as Mayor of Burlington, Vermont and now twenty-five years in Congress. As a politician he cut a deal with the National Rifle Association (NRA) to win his seat. That deal included voting against the Brady bill five times and voting to oppose giving people the right to sue gun manufacturers. Hillary, who Sanders calls the establishment candidate, fought the NRA, supported the Brady bill, and supported allowing us to sue gun manufacturers.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-d-rosenstein/to-students-and-millennia_b_9120166.html
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Hillary's shills like Rosenstein are so desperate they'll say anything at this point, accusations of corruption from supporters of the candidate who took millions from the banking industry.
Bernie never took a dime from the NRA and has a record of voting for gun control going back decades.
http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Bernie_Sanders_Gun_Control.htm
....However, the Nation and the other reports like it dont shed real light on where Sanders is coming from. They dont explain why he supports some gun controls but not others. Nor do they ask if theres a consistency to Sanders positions and votes over the years? They simply suggest that Bernies position is muddled and makes a good target for Hillary.
Yet there is an explanation. Its consistent and simpler than many pundits think. And its in Bernies own words dating back to the campaign where he was first elected to the U.S. Housein 1990where he was endorsed by the NRA, even after Sanders told them that he would ban assault rifles. That year, Bernie faced Republican incumbent Peter Smith, who beat him by less than 4 percentage points in a three-way race two years before.
In that 1988 race, Bernie told Vermont sportsmen that he backed an assault weapons ban. Smith told the same sportsmens groups that he opposed it, but midway through his first term he changed his mind and co-sponsored an assault rifle baneven bringing an AK-47 to his press conference. That about-face was seen as a betrayal and is the background to a June 1990 debate sponsored by the Vermont Federation of Sportsmens Clubs.
I was at that debate with Smith and three other candidatesas the Sanders campaign press secretaryand recorded it. Bernie spoke at length three times and much of what he said is relevant today, and anticipates his congressional record on gun control ever since. Look at how Bernie describes what being a sportsperson is in a rural state, where he is quick to draw the line with weapons that threaten police and have no legitimate use in huntinghe previously was mayor of Vermonts biggest city, and his record of being very clear with the gun lobby and rural people about where he stands. His approach, despite the Nations characterization, isnt open-minded.
As you can see, Berniewho moved to rural northeastern Vermont in the late 1960shas an appreciation and feeling for where hunting and fishing fit into the lives of lower income rural people. Hes not a hunter or a fisherman. When he grew up in Brooklyn, he was a nerdy jockbeing captivated by ideas and a high school miler who hoped for a track scholarship for college. But like many people who settled in Vermont for generations, he was drawn to its freer and greener pastures and respected its local culture.
I went before the sportsmen of Vermont and said that I have concerns about certain types of assault weapons that have nothing to do with hunting. I believe in hunting. I will not support any legislation that limits the rights of Vermonters or any other hunters to practice what they have enjoyed for decades. I do have concerns about certain types of assault weapons.
That was not the end of his remarks. But it is worth noting that his separating the rights of traditional hunters from the concerns of police chiefs has been a constant thread in many subsequent votes he would take in Congress. Its also noteworthy that Bernie consistently has opposed assault weapons from the late 1980sbefore he was in Congresswhich he reiterated to the moderator.
http://www.salon.com/2015/10/10/what_bernies_gun_control_critics_get_wrong_partner/
Next, the 1990 debate turned to gun control. The moderator, who clearly was a Second Amendment absolutist, went after Bernieto test his mettle after Smiths about-face.
Do you support additional restrictions on firearms? Do you support additional restrictive firearms legislation? he asked. Bernie Sanders, explain yourself, yes or no?
Yes, he replied. Two years ago, I went before the Vermont Sportsmans Federation and was asked exactly the same question. It was a controversial question. I know how they felt on the issue. And that was before the DiConcini Bill. That was before a lot of discussion about the Brady Bill. That was before New Jersey and California passed bills limiting assault weapons.
I went before the sportsmen of Vermont and said that I have concerns about certain types of assault weapons that have nothing to do with hunting. I believe in hunting. I will not support any legislation that limits the rights of Vermonters or any other hunters to practice what they have enjoyed for decades. I do have concerns about certain types of assault weapons.
That was not the end of his remarks. But it is worth noting that his separating the rights of traditional hunters from the concerns of police chiefs has been a constant thread in many subsequent votes he would take in Congress. Its also noteworthy that Bernie consistently has opposed assault weapons from the late 1980sbefore he was in Congresswhich he reiterated to the moderator.
I said that before the election, he continued. The Vermont sportspeople, as is their right, made their endorsement. The endorsed Peter Smith. They endorsed Paul Poirier. I lost that election by about three-and-one-half percentage points, a very close election. Was my failure to get that endorsement pivotal? It might have been. We dont know. Maybe it was. Maybe it wasnt. All I can say is I told the sportspeople of Vermont what I believe before the election and I am going to say it again.
I do believe we need to ban certain types of assault weapons. I have taked to police chiefs. I have talked to the police officers out on the street. I have read some of the literature all over this country. Police chiefs, police officers are concerned about the types of weapons which are ending up in the hands of drug dealers and other criminals and our police oficers are getting outgunned.
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/bernies-gun-control-critics-are-wrong-his-stance-has-been-consistent-decades
WASHINGTON, April 17 Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) today voted for expanded background checks on gun buyers and for a ban on assault weapons but the Senate rejected those central planks of legislation inspired by the shootings of 20 first-grade students and six teachers in Newtown, Conn.
Nobody believes that gun control by itself is going to end the horrors we have seen in Newtown, Conn., Aurora, Colo., Blacksburg, Va., Tucson, Ariz. and other American communities, Sanders said. There is a growing consensus, however, in Vermont and across America that we have got to do as much as we can to end the cold-blooded, mass murders of innocent people. I believe very strongly that we also have got to address the mental health crisis in our country and make certain that help is available for people who may be a danger to themselves and others, Sanders added.
The amendment on expanded background checks needed 60 votes to pass but only 54 senators voted for it. To my mind it makes common sense to keep these weapons out of the hands of people with criminal records or mental health histories, Sanders said.
Under current federal law, background checks are not performed for tens of thousands of sales up to 40 percent of all gun transfers at gun shows or over the Internet. The amendment would have required background checks for all gun sales in commercial settings regardless of whether the seller is a licensed dealer. The compromise proposal would have exempted sales between family, friends, and neighbors.
In a separate roll call, the Senate rejected a proposal to ban assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. That proposal was defeated by a vote of 60 to 40.
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/sanders-votes-for-background-checks-assault-weapons-ban
Bernie Sanders voted for the 1994 crime bill because it included the Violence against Women Act and assault weapons ban:
A spokesman for Sanders said he voted for the bill "because it included the Violence Against Women Act and the ban on certain assault weapons."
Sanders reiterated his opposition to capital punishment in 2015. "I just dont think the state itself, whether its the state government or federal government, should be in the business of killing people," he said on a radio show.
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/sep/02/viral-image/where-do-hillary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders-stand-/
If he's a pro-NRA/pro-gun politician why did the NRA give him a lifetime D- rating?
Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #1)
DURHAM D This message was self-deleted by its author.
Kokonoe
(2,485 posts)CountAllVotes
(20,875 posts)n/t
BERNIE 2016!!
The Revolution in Right Around the Corner!
DURHAM D
(32,610 posts)elective office a bonus.
just sayin'
Herman4747
(1,825 posts)...to be a bonus, unlike the Goldwater girl.
Just sayin'
Oh, and by the way, could you tell us all why that arrow in the H points to the right?
Did she vote for Goldwater? Did she register Republican? What were you doing at 19?
That arrow question is so last year.
Herman4747
(1,825 posts)You see, unlike Hillary, I'm a liberal.
You may meet us on occasion. We're what you call leftists, believing that it is to the left the nation should go.
Hillary, on the other hand....
DURHAM D
(32,610 posts)Lucinda
(31,170 posts)So the Goldwater meme is attacking a High School girl for caring about her country.
DURHAM D
(32,610 posts)And, operative word is girl.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)She wasn't fighting the establishment in that speech, she was defending it.
Herman4747
(1,825 posts)Her positions are not determined by right or wrong, but what will advance her political career.
amborin
(16,631 posts)to getting huge donations from Wall Street. And huge speaking fees from Big Pharma. And now Hillary says Single Payer will
never pass (not if she can help it, it won't)
just the tip of the iceberg and doesn't even tough the war mongering and neo con constant regime change escapades
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)Bernie has a D minus rating with the NRA
Luciferous
(6,081 posts)Response to wyldwolf (Original post)
Post removed
Out of Time Man
(141 posts)You can be understandably angry over the loss of your friends in Iraq, but that doesn't give you license to call her a "corporatist whore". That kind of rhetoric doesn't serve any purpose other than to antagonize Hillary supporters and make Bernie supporters look bad.
Primary season here is ugly, but it doesn't have to be this ugly. Please edit your post before someone rightfully alerts on it.
ETA: ...nevermind. Jury took care of that one.
Response to wyldwolf (Original post)
1000words This message was self-deleted by its author.
frylock
(34,825 posts)rurallib
(62,416 posts)It has been refuted over and over for months now
ETA and something that really bothers me is the use of Rovian tactics of attacking the opponents strength in Democratic primaries. She should run on her record and her policies.
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)The swarming by Sanders supporters to piss all over every positive thread about Hillary Clinton is nothing less than bizarre.
If your candidate is so great and Hillary Clinton is so awful, why not just let folks sort it out themselves instead of obsessively hijacking every pro-Hillary thread?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)A positive thread is one that promotes a candidate on their merits, not one that falsely accuses their opponent of corruption.
I stay out of positive threads about Hillary and O'Malley out of respect, this is a hit piece and the blogger at HuffPo lied about my candidate, so it's fair game imo.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)Thanks for pointing that out.
litlbilly
(2,227 posts)lots of experience too.
cali
(114,904 posts)in_cog_ni_to
(41,600 posts)Last edited Sat Jan 30, 2016, 11:29 PM - Edit history (1)
the solution! Why would/should they support her?
She supports:
Wall St. THIEVES who KNOWINGLY stole $12.8 TRILLION of OUR Tax dollars and no one has ever paid for that CRIME.
FRACKING
TPP
XL PIPELINE
MONSANTO
GMOs
Labeling GMO food
PRISONS for PROFITS
The Bankruptcy Bill...which disproportionately affects women and children
Welfare Reform...which disproportionately affects women and children
She voted for the IRAQ WAR RESOLUTION
SHE'S A WARMONGER. Still calling for a war in Iran (young people fight those wars!)
She created the disasters in Syria and Libya and gave us ISIS.
She DOESN'T support:
Medicare-for-All/Single-Payer Healthcare - she doesn't care if fellow citizens DIE for lack of healthcare
Tuition-free Universities for all eligible students
Legalizing Marijuana
There's absolutely no reason young people would /should support her!
PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE
oasis
(49,388 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)Now that she has decided that undercutting basic liberal goals is her key to victory, she crossed the line.
angrychair
(8,699 posts)Vote for a "Dem" that spends her personal time, away from the public eye, with the Bushes and Trumps and counts them as her friends.
Yep, not sure about you but I would never call war criminals and xenophobic racist my friends.
jfern
(5,204 posts)And Bernie has had various jobs such as farmer and carpenter besides being a politician.
Broward
(1,976 posts)Look closely at her support for job-killing free trade agreements. Look closely at her close ties to Wall Street.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)Then the author insults my ideals by ridiculing Bernie.
Sigh*
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)I think voters need to think carefully
thereismore
(13,326 posts)Kokonoe
(2,485 posts)Who cares about Hillary's hundreds of millions of US dollars.
This election is about everyone you see, every day.
JUST VOTE
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)ypsfonos
(144 posts)Welcome to the future!
Hint: it's not Hillary
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)Uhhuh...