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kennetha

(3,666 posts)
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 09:17 AM Jan 2016

Is America Ready to elect a non-religious president?

Sanders hasn't quite called himself an atheist, but he's come pretty close. Is America --which is by some measure the most religious country in the developed world - ready to elect an all but self-declared atheist? One thing that certainly will keep Sanders from making strong inroads with African American voters in the South is his lack of interest in religion.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/bernie-sanders-finally-answers-the-god-question/2016/01/26/83429390-bfb0-11e5-bcda-62a36b394160_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-more-top-stories_sandersreligion-7am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

141 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Is America Ready to elect a non-religious president? (Original Post) kennetha Jan 2016 OP
Is he Jewish or an Atheist? RiverLover Jan 2016 #1
He said he believes in God. That's not being an atheist. These bigoted religious threads suck and merrily Jan 2016 #26
I go along with Ambrose Bierce's definitions hobbit709 Jan 2016 #40
Forgive me, but, while I appreciate you, for the moment, I don't care about what you go along with. merrily Jan 2016 #45
Of course they are. The spin machine is going so fast the bearings are overheating. hobbit709 Jan 2016 #50
Hillary's surrogates have been on TV this past week with "atheist" and merrily Jan 2016 #56
It's no different than lying about Obama not being a Christian. beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #63
Very true. /nt RiverLover Jan 2016 #66
Yes, Hillary's camp did, in 2008, imply Obama was Muslim. merrily Jan 2016 #68
Being Jewish is more than just a religion though. beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #90
Not sure. merrily Jan 2016 #92
You're right, I misspoke. beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #94
There's a first time for everything. Never known you to mispeak before. merrily Jan 2016 #98
I think Hillary's campaign is pushing it for both reasons. beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #99
Agree, but not only Christians. merrily Jan 2016 #102
Oh,they tried. passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #133
I think it's a safe bet that we already have had a non-religious President. NorthCarolina Jan 2016 #2
Yup. Agschmid Jan 2016 #22
Possibly even the current occupant of the WH. (n/t) thesquanderer Jan 2016 #115
Absolutely. nt SusanCalvin Jan 2016 #124
Like the third ShrimpPoboy Jan 2016 #129
It's questionable, so many Americans are so totally brainwashed. n/t RKP5637 Jan 2016 #3
Jewish refers to both a culture, some say DNA, and a religion. It's complicated. libdem4life Jan 2016 #4
Not really wondering about you kennetha Jan 2016 #6
Say what? n/t libdem4life Jan 2016 #10
Sorry...it's early...I got it. Yes, you may be right. libdem4life Jan 2016 #12
You're not wondering. You're trying to perform a hatchet job over Sanders' concept of God. merrily Jan 2016 #96
If you read the article kennetha Jan 2016 #5
Where did he say he has no religious conviction? merrily Jan 2016 #18
Define "not all that culturally jewish". beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #33
He's Jewish enough for Cruz Goblinmonger Jan 2016 #74
I doubt it. NurseJackie Jan 2016 #7
Well as long as you have a list of the kinds of discrimination that are okay. Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #11
They sure seem ready to nominate one. Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #8
aaaahhh... So today's attack is going to be Bernie Sanders isn't Jewish enough. notadmblnd Jan 2016 #9
This is a "sticky wicket" as my friend used to say. No win here for the attackers. libdem4life Jan 2016 #13
I'm Jewish and I back Bernie. Health Wagon Jan 2016 #14
This is an interesting angle Lordquinton Jan 2016 #122
That is my understanding. notadmblnd Jan 2016 #136
Why not? Le Taz Hot Jan 2016 #15
What's wrong with being godless? NastyRiffraff Jan 2016 #17
LOL! Le Taz Hot Jan 2016 #19
Claiming he's lying about his religious beliefs is an attack. beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #35
Okay whatever NastyRiffraff Jan 2016 #117
you don't care, and I don't care... awoke_in_2003 Jan 2016 #140
The man said he believes in God. Therefore calling him an atheist is a lie, not an insult, a lie. merrily Jan 2016 #61
Most of America Non-Religious? kennetha Jan 2016 #21
Either blind or ignorant. VulgarPoet Jan 2016 #25
Well, aren't you precious. Le Taz Hot Jan 2016 #28
He said he believes in God. How is that close to Atheism? merrily Jan 2016 #16
Well, at best he's a pantheist kennetha Jan 2016 #20
No, pantheism isn't "just really a fancy name for atheism". winter is coming Jan 2016 #31
Where are you getting these definitions? beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #34
use your little brain... kennetha Jan 2016 #36
We're to use our brains to agree with definitions you made up? Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jan 2016 #46
not just your brain passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #134
That is not the definition of atheism. Atheists don't believe in gods. beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #53
Jury results: TacoD Jan 2016 #59
Personal assults of other DU members are now OK on DU riversedge Jan 2016 #105
Losing a jury call (esp. 4-3) doesn't mean it's OK on DU. thesquanderer Jan 2016 #114
Nope. Pantheism is a belief. Though "god" may reside bvf Jan 2016 #64
No that's not right. kennetha Jan 2016 #73
There's no shortage of ignorant teachers. You know that. bvf Jan 2016 #84
You "teach this stuff"? Where, Liberty University? cleanhippie Jan 2016 #137
out of his posterior. hobbit709 Jan 2016 #44
You don't want to know. merrily Jan 2016 #57
My guess is Conservapedia beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #60
Really? I thought they were being pulled straight out of his or her ear. merrily Jan 2016 #62
Well from past experience most people who make up shit to smear atheists have a source. beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #69
Checked conservapedia. It's definition does not match what Bernie said. merrily Jan 2016 #76
Um, no and no. You are pulling stuff out of your ear. merrily Jan 2016 #38
"...pantheist which is just really a fancy name for atheism." bvf Jan 2016 #47
you want to match wits kennetha Jan 2016 #55
LOL! bvf Jan 2016 #78
You need to stop trying to use tough words. Goblinmonger Jan 2016 #77
Well, in his defense, he read it on the internet, so it must me true. cleanhippie Jan 2016 #138
... awoke_in_2003 Jan 2016 #141
He's being defined as a "Jew from New York" WhaTHellsgoingonhere Jan 2016 #23
What atheism? He said he believes in God. How is that atheism? merrily Jan 2016 #41
aside from the fact that he is not an atheist passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #135
I Sure Am Nanjeanne Jan 2016 #24
Most folks do not know as Sanders has yet to be vetting by the media.. riversedge Jan 2016 #27
You think his Judaism should be vetted? JonLeibowitz Jan 2016 #51
YOU said that -not me. riversedge Jan 2016 #103
Well you were replying to a post about his religion and his being Jewish JonLeibowitz Jan 2016 #107
only in our bubble do you make stuff up and point blame and say it is true. Btw- riversedge Jan 2016 #111
You brought vetting into a thread about his religion. jeff47 Jan 2016 #109
Yes. Please media. Looking into his "Jewishness" Goblinmonger Jan 2016 #81
Please comprehend the article--it talkes o non-religious with a small r--NOT riversedge Jan 2016 #108
So what do you think the media will find when the vet him Goblinmonger Jan 2016 #110
Well for starts-then you missed the point of my post since OP headline was riversedge Jan 2016 #112
Oh, your point was pretty clear, all right. bvf Jan 2016 #116
Like Trump is religious? Beanie is Jewish. sinkingfeeling Jan 2016 #29
I'd be wary of comparing kennetha Jan 2016 #30
One religious dog whistle at a time please. beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #32
If Bernie wins the democratic nomination workinclasszero Jan 2016 #37
"self avowed socialism and atheism"? Goblinmonger Jan 2016 #82
Link or article title where Bernie has said that he is an Atheist. SamKnause Jan 2016 #106
Who will we blame? Lordquinton Jan 2016 #123
There's another OP somewhere quoting a poll that Americans think Hillary and Trump are the least Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jan 2016 #39
Go Ber-nie! Go Ber-nie! Go Ber-nie! Go Ber-nie! cherokeeprogressive Jan 2016 #42
America needs a broader definition of "religious." N/t gollygee Jan 2016 #43
so, #notjewishenoughbernie is the meme of the day restorefreedom Jan 2016 #48
Probably Not, But SDJay Jan 2016 #49
many people don't get it...judaism is a non proselytizing religion restorefreedom Jan 2016 #52
The issues voter had with Obama - I don't think this will fare much better liberal N proud Jan 2016 #54
Well Word of God says.... DreWId Jan 2016 #58
It might be easier for a secular Jew than for someone who was born Christian but left the Church. bklyncowgirl Jan 2016 #65
Religious bigotry has no place in politics! in_cog_ni_to Jan 2016 #67
Now it's "he's not really Jewish!". The dog whistles are deafening. beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #71
Exactly. I can't wait to see what they pull out of their bag of slime next. in_cog_ni_to Jan 2016 #75
A thread claiming Obama wasn't really a Christian would get hidden or locked and righfully so.. beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #80
Yep...always has been. in_cog_ni_to Jan 2016 #89
It's a fun Catch 22 Goblinmonger Jan 2016 #83
Brought to you by the same candidate who refused to say Omama wasn't a Muslim in 2008. beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #85
It really is. in_cog_ni_to Jan 2016 #86
We knew they would go full-on anti-Semitic, it was only a matter of time. beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #88
The fact we have to ask that question is depressing. Goblinmonger Jan 2016 #70
It is depressing kennetha Jan 2016 #79
How is he an atheist when he said he "believes" in God? beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #87
No atheist and no honest person defines a belief in God as atheism. This is religious bigotry. merrily Jan 2016 #93
The lack of Hillary supporters calling out this intolerance is telling. beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #97
Staying on message. Religious bigotry seems to be the order of the day, literally. merrily Jan 2016 #100
And one last night, it's a coordinated effort. beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #101
Being raised Jewish means there is no "lack of religion" here. Are you kidding me? in_cog_ni_to Jan 2016 #95
I worry more about anyone who consorts with The Family. n/t demmiblue Jan 2016 #72
There are several things you don't get Bad Thoughts Jan 2016 #91
Americans are religious. Bad Dog Jan 2016 #104
Sanders is as atheist.... AlbertCat Jan 2016 #113
This bigotry against non Christians is ridiculous jfern Jan 2016 #118
If Trump is the nominee... NCTraveler Jan 2016 #119
but they think he is Jesus Rosa Luxemburg Jan 2016 #128
"No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust senz Jan 2016 #120
Why do the Bernie backers protest so much? workinclasszero Jan 2016 #121
According to our Constitution, SusanCalvin Jan 2016 #127
Rs aren't the only ones. bvf Jan 2016 #139
Well, according to our Constitution, SusanCalvin Jan 2016 #125
This American would prefer a non believer PowerToThePeople Jan 2016 #126
More than ready. Eager!!!! nt valerief Jan 2016 #130
The 'religious' ones have screwed our country over pretty much non-stop... Peace Patriot Jan 2016 #131
Hell yes! I literally cannot wait! passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #132

RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
1. Is he Jewish or an Atheist?
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 09:19 AM
Jan 2016

Make up your mind.

The attacks can come from either side, just want to know where to look.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
26. He said he believes in God. That's not being an atheist. These bigoted religious threads suck and
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 09:57 AM
Jan 2016

they are proliferating. Hillary's surrogates have been on TV with this stuff



Having religion = being religious


Some definitions of religion:

re·li·gion (rĭ-lĭj?ən) n.

1.

a. The belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers, regarded as creating and governing the universe: respect for religion.

b. A particular variety of such belief, especially when organized into a system of doctrine and practice: the world's many religions.

c. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.

2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order: a widow who went into religion and became a nun.

3. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion: a person for whom art became a religion.

American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition. Copyright © 2011 by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. All rights reserved.


religion (rɪˈlɪdʒən)
n
1. belief in, worship of, or obedience to a supernatural power or powers considered to be divine or to have control of human destiny

2. any formal or institutionalized expression of such belief: the Christian religion.

3. the attitude and feeling of one who believes in a transcendent controlling power or powers

4. (Roman Catholic Church) chiefly RC Church the way of life determined by the vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience entered upon by monks, friars, and nuns: to enter religion.

5. something of overwhelming importance to a person: football is his religion.

6. archaic
a. the practice of sacred ritual observances

b. sacred rites and ceremonies
[C12: via Old French from Latin religiō fear of the supernatural, piety, probably from religāre to tie up, from re- + ligāre to bind]
Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged, 12th Edition 2014 © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2014


re•li•gion (rɪˈlɪdʒ ən) n.

1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe,
esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usu. involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code for the conduct of human affairs.

2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion.

3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.

4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.


5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.

6. something a person believes in and follows devotedly.


7. Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion.


http://www.thefreedictionary.com/religion

hobbit709

(41,694 posts)
40. I go along with Ambrose Bierce's definitions
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:36 AM
Jan 2016

Religion. A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable.

Christian: One who believes that the New Testament is a divinely inspired book admirably suited to the spiritual needs of his neighbor. One who follows the teachings of Christ in so far as they are not inconsistent with a life of sin.

Pray, v. To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner, confessedly unworthy.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
45. Forgive me, but, while I appreciate you, for the moment, I don't care about what you go along with.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:38 AM
Jan 2016

Right now, I care that this thread and others like it are disgusting attacks on Sanders.

hobbit709

(41,694 posts)
50. Of course they are. The spin machine is going so fast the bearings are overheating.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:41 AM
Jan 2016

they've tried everything else so far to smear him. Religion is one of the few left that they hadn't used until now.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
56. Hillary's surrogates have been on TV this past week with "atheist" and
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:47 AM
Jan 2016

"socialist" and how polls show Americans will not vote for either for President.

He said he believes in God, though not a traditional God. That's it. He's not an atheist.

No one has a right to judge his religious beliefs or his view of God. This thread is religious bigotry, plain and simple. It's disgusting.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
63. It's no different than lying about Obama not being a Christian.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:51 AM
Jan 2016

And claiming he's not really Jewish is anti-Semitic as well.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
68. Yes, Hillary's camp did, in 2008, imply Obama was Muslim.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:54 AM
Jan 2016

Since Bernie is not claiming that his religion is Judaism, I am not sure it's anti-semitism. However, it is religious bigotry.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
90. Being Jewish is more than just a religion though.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:16 AM
Jan 2016

I would consider the op's claim that he's not "culturally Jewish" anti-Semitic.

They haven't explained what they meant by that yet and I doubt they will.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
92. Not sure.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:28 AM
Jan 2016

I think there's more to being a Jew than just the religion, but I think Judaism is the religion. However, I'm not sure and don't want to spread disinformation. It's probably better to get the info from a Jew.

In any event, this is about electability. Polls show that a bit under 50% of Americans say they would vote for an atheist. So, the Hillary campaign is hitting on atheism to say Bernie's not electible in the general because he's an atheist. However, since Bernie has said he believes in God, he's not an atheist, end of fucking story. You don't then pick apart his concept of God and reject it. That's religious bigotry.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
94. You're right, I misspoke.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:32 AM
Jan 2016

But the op's dig about him not sharing AA's faith is a blatant dog whistle, one that's been used here once before.

And that's why they're spreading these rumours.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
98. There's a first time for everything. Never known you to mispeak before.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:35 AM
Jan 2016
But the op's dig about him not sharing AA's faith is a blatant dog whistle


Agree, but it's also about polling that shows that under 50% of Americans says they would vote for an atheist for President.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
102. Agree, but not only Christians.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:41 AM
Jan 2016

Anyone of any persuasion who would rather not see an atheist as President.

 

NorthCarolina

(11,197 posts)
2. I think it's a safe bet that we already have had a non-religious President.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 09:19 AM
Jan 2016

In fact, probably several of them.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
4. Jewish refers to both a culture, some say DNA, and a religion. It's complicated.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 09:23 AM
Jan 2016

But I will be proud, as a non-practicing Christian, to vote for our first Jewish President, and am glad that it has not become an issue. It may in the GE, but being anti-semetic is no longer the "in" thing to do.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
96. You're not wondering. You're trying to perform a hatchet job over Sanders' concept of God.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:34 AM
Jan 2016

It's religious bigotry and religious bigotry is shameful and disgusting.

Every time I think DUers can't possibly go any lower to attack Sanders, they do.

kennetha

(3,666 posts)
5. If you read the article
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 09:25 AM
Jan 2016

you'll see that his not all that culturally jewish and he is not at all religious. I wasn't wondering about his cultural background, but his self-avowed lack of religious conviction.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
33. Define "not all that culturally jewish".
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:26 AM
Jan 2016

Last edited Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:05 AM - Edit history (1)

Now you're claiming he's not Jewish enough to be called Jewish?

What website am I on again?

 

Goblinmonger

(22,340 posts)
74. He's Jewish enough for Cruz
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:58 AM
Jan 2016

to apply the "New York culture" label to him if he wants.

Seriously, how the hell do you know how "Jewish" he is?

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
11. Well as long as you have a list of the kinds of discrimination that are okay.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 09:30 AM
Jan 2016

Seems to me we were told by Hillary supporters in '08 that America would never elect a one term AA senator with a weird name, too.

notadmblnd

(23,720 posts)
9. aaaahhh... So today's attack is going to be Bernie Sanders isn't Jewish enough.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 09:28 AM
Jan 2016

Guess they couldn't get away with attacking his Religion without upsetting Israel, so they're going to go the other way and claim he's an atheist.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
13. This is a "sticky wicket" as my friend used to say. No win here for the attackers.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 09:33 AM
Jan 2016

It's unacceptable to run a Christian/religious purity meme. And, likely, politically stupid. At least I hope so.

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
122. This is an interesting angle
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:18 PM
Jan 2016

I mean, didn't he loose a lot of family in the holocaust? And isn't that why his family came to America?

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
15. Why not?
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 09:38 AM
Jan 2016

Most of America is non-religious. So, that's the new meme? "SOSHULIST!!!111!!" isn't working, now he's godless. Well, why not? They've thrown everything else at him, why not this?

NastyRiffraff

(12,448 posts)
17. What's wrong with being godless?
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 09:43 AM
Jan 2016

I think it's a good thing, and I'm a Hillary supporter. I don't see being called an atheist is an attack on Bernie, or on anybody.

Bernie is really not the perpetual victim you think he is, and I don't think you're doing him a favor by trying to make him one.

NastyRiffraff

(12,448 posts)
117. Okay whatever
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 06:24 PM
Jan 2016

I don't give a shit whether or not Bernie, or anyone else, believes in a god or not. I don't know and don't care. I'm an atheist myself, but I can even understand why he would lie about it if he were an atheist, or leaning towards atheism (as more and more Americans are), given the false premise that an American president must be religious (or, more likely appear to be).

 

awoke_in_2003

(34,582 posts)
140. you don't care, and I don't care...
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 07:21 PM
Jan 2016

but a large portion of this fucked up country does, so if you want to through a monkey wrench in the campaign you spread rumors about the opponent being an atheist.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
61. The man said he believes in God. Therefore calling him an atheist is a lie, not an insult, a lie.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:50 AM
Jan 2016

And guess why the Hillary campaign is spreading this lie.

VulgarPoet

(2,872 posts)
25. Either blind or ignorant.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 09:55 AM
Jan 2016

"Bible belt 'round Anglo waste" is still the status-quo for quite a bit of the south, to crib a Brian Warner quote.

kennetha

(3,666 posts)
20. Well, at best he's a pantheist
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 09:46 AM
Jan 2016

which is just really a fancy name for atheism.

I am not actively involved with organized religion,” Sanders said in a recent interview.

Sanders said he believes in God, though not necessarily in a traditional manner.

“I think everyone believes in God in their own ways,” he said. “To me, it means that all of us are connected, all of life is connected, and that we are all tied together.”

kennetha

(3,666 posts)
36. use your little brain...
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:31 AM
Jan 2016

pantheism = the belief that God is the Universe and the universe is God. There is no difference between them. God is not a thing that transcends the universe. it just IS the universe.

Atheism = the belief that there is nothing beyond the universe. the universe is the totality of all that is and nothing "transcends" it.

The pantheist and the atheist agree on what exist. The pantheist calls that thing god. the atheist refuses to.

Pantheism is thus just atheism by another name.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
46. We're to use our brains to agree with definitions you made up?
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:38 AM
Jan 2016

I can play the make up a definition game too!

Atheists are simply people who believe in one less god than monotheists.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
53. That is not the definition of atheism. Atheists don't believe in gods.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:46 AM
Jan 2016
Definition of atheism in English:
noun

Disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

Origin

Late 16th century: from French athéisme, from Greek atheos, from a- 'without' + theos 'god'.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/atheism

TacoD

(581 posts)
59. Jury results:
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:49 AM
Jan 2016

On Thu Jan 28, 2016, 09:40 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

use your little brain...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1081426

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

"Use your little brain" is a clear personal attack.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Jan 28, 2016, 09:48 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Agree with alerter
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: A crummy comment but hiding these things is b.s.
Get tough. It's primary season.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: "Use your little brain" is completely uncalled for and inappropriate in a civil discussion.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

thesquanderer

(11,990 posts)
114. Losing a jury call (esp. 4-3) doesn't mean it's OK on DU.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 01:05 PM
Jan 2016

It means the jury system is imperfect. This is not news.

 

bvf

(6,604 posts)
64. Nope. Pantheism is a belief. Though "god" may reside
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:53 AM
Jan 2016

everywhere in this way of thinking, the concept still infers a separate, higher intelligence.

Atheism decidedly makes no such inference. Stop showing your ignorance.

kennetha

(3,666 posts)
73. No that's not right.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:57 AM
Jan 2016

that's panentheism.

subtle but important difference.

And really, I'm not at all ignorant. I teach this stuff.

Here's a wikapedia article to help enlighten you

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panentheism

Here's an article from an encyclopedia of philosophy to help too.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pantheism/

 

bvf

(6,604 posts)
84. There's no shortage of ignorant teachers. You know that.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:07 AM
Jan 2016

As for religious scholarship, which is what you're essentially laying claim to: it's an empty pursuit, posing as erudition.

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
137. You "teach this stuff"? Where, Liberty University?
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 11:41 AM
Jan 2016

Atheism is, quite literally, the lack of belief in a god. Yet you assert that it is a belief anyway.

And you "teach this stuff"?

Thanks for giving the anti-education lobby more ammo for their argument regarding 'bad teachers'.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
69. Well from past experience most people who make up shit to smear atheists have a source.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:55 AM
Jan 2016

You could be right but their refusal to accept that Bernie's a "real" Jew also sounds familiar.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
76. Checked conservapedia. It's definition does not match what Bernie said.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:59 AM
Jan 2016

Conserevapedia says it's God in everything, which would include objects. At that, so the fuck what? It's still not atheism! However, Bernie statement was only about people.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
38. Um, no and no. You are pulling stuff out of your ear.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:35 AM
Jan 2016

He said he believes in one God, not a pantheon and pantheism is not a synonym for atheism.

Sanders said he believes in God, though not necessarily in a traditional manner.


Exactly. He believes in God. How the hell do you think you have the right to judge or dismiss his belief in God?

This is a thread of religious bigotry. It's shameful, disgraceful and disgusting.








 

bvf

(6,604 posts)
47. "...pantheist which is just really a fancy name for atheism."
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:39 AM
Jan 2016

You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

bvf

(6,604 posts)
78. LOL!
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:00 AM
Jan 2016

A common, mistaken, (and quite arrogant) argument is that atheism is "lacking" something. This piece relies on that argument in spades.

As for matching wits, you appear unarmed.

 

Goblinmonger

(22,340 posts)
77. You need to stop trying to use tough words.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:00 AM
Jan 2016

Pantheist is not a fancy name for atheism. Go and actually talk to some of each about what they feel and you'll find out.

 

WhaTHellsgoingonhere

(5,252 posts)
23. He's being defined as a "Jew from New York"
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 09:51 AM
Jan 2016

...the truth doesn't matter.

But, no, America is not ready to elect an unabashed atheist today. However, atheists are growing at a rapid rate, so who knows what will come in a generation or two.

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
135. aside from the fact that he is not an atheist
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 03:01 AM
Jan 2016

The point is that many more people than atheists believe that we should not have a theocracy...that religion and government should be separate, and that good people and good leaders do not necessarily have to share our personal beliefs to support them.

You do not have to be an atheist to think religion should not be part of our government.

riversedge

(70,242 posts)
27. Most folks do not know as Sanders has yet to be vetting by the media..
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:01 AM
Jan 2016

But a few of the media have begun the vetting process.

JonLeibowitz

(6,282 posts)
107. Well you were replying to a post about his religion and his being Jewish
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:49 AM
Jan 2016

by saying he needs to be vetted. Pretty clear what you were suggesting.

But I of course understand if you want to backpedal now.

riversedge

(70,242 posts)
111. only in our bubble do you make stuff up and point blame and say it is true. Btw-
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 12:14 PM
Jan 2016

I am referring to r--and in small religious. And yes, Sanders needs to be vetted. bye

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
109. You brought vetting into a thread about his religion.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:52 AM
Jan 2016

So either you decided to make an utterly irrelevant post on a completely different topic, or you're saying his religion needs to be vetted.

 

Goblinmonger

(22,340 posts)
81. Yes. Please media. Looking into his "Jewishness"
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:02 AM
Jan 2016

and let's find out how "Jewish" he is.

You really need to think about what you are typing.

riversedge

(70,242 posts)
108. Please comprehend the article--it talkes o non-religious with a small r--NOT
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:52 AM
Jan 2016

organized Religion -including Jewish.

 

Goblinmonger

(22,340 posts)
110. So what do you think the media will find when the vet him
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 12:03 PM
Jan 2016

in regard to his religion? Please comprehend that I was replying to your statement and not the article.

riversedge

(70,242 posts)
112. Well for starts-then you missed the point of my post since OP headline was
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 12:22 PM
Jan 2016

in small r and NOT big r and in organized religion. That said--I do not know what they will find. Nor do I care much. religion has never been big in my life--big r or small r.

 

bvf

(6,604 posts)
116. Oh, your point was pretty clear, all right.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 02:08 PM
Jan 2016

Calls for religious tests such as yours (nobody gives a shit about your "R"-vs.-"r" argument, either--it's pure deflection) are abhorrent and hateful.

There's no walking that bigoted crap back.

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
37. If Bernie wins the democratic nomination
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:33 AM
Jan 2016

His self avowed socialism and atheism will be front and center in every republican attack ad.

Yup Bernie will be painted by the rethuglicans as a godless commie, count on that. I figure he would be about as popular as McGovern was with the same results as him in the GE.

So then get ready for president Trump, a packed SCOTUS full of hardcore right wing ideologues and 8 years of living hell under the teahaddists.

If you think things are bad now....you ain't seen nothing yet if the republicans gain control of the government again for 8 years and the SCOTUS for the next 30 or 40 years or so.

At least we will know who to blame.

 

Goblinmonger

(22,340 posts)
82. "self avowed socialism and atheism"?
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:03 AM
Jan 2016

Since he has never said he is neither, it's kind of awesome that you are pushing right-wing talking points.

SamKnause

(13,108 posts)
106. Link or article title where Bernie has said that he is an Atheist.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:48 AM
Jan 2016

You won't find any, because you are lying.

Yes, we know exactly who to blame if the Republicans gain control.

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
123. Who will we blame?
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:57 PM
Jan 2016

"Bernie will be painted by the rethuglicans as a godless commie"

Just like Hillary will be, just like Obama was. Just like every opponent they have. I expect it from them.

I don't expect it from other Democrats like I see here everyday.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
39. There's another OP somewhere quoting a poll that Americans think Hillary and Trump are the least
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:36 AM
Jan 2016

religious candidates running. Now this is completely wrong in Hillary's case. She's actually extremely religious - and I use the word 'extremely' literally, since she's a Dominionist and an admirer of a man she referred to as her spiritual mentor, David Coe of 'The Family', a group that believes in gaining control of politicians around the world to create a Christian global theocracy in spirit, if not name, since they prefer to keep in the shadows.

So if the polls about what Americans think are true, and if America is 'not ready to elect a non-religious President', then Hillary is the one who is hurt by that problem. Still, it's probably better for her to be hurt by people thinking her not to be religious than for them to actually understand her religious beliefs.

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
48. so, #notjewishenoughbernie is the meme of the day
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:41 AM
Jan 2016

if this is all that is left, then hillary is officially toast on issues.

jeez, first, there are antisemitic attacks, now he is not religious enough. this is getting very hard to follow. maybe you guys could get together to coordinate, like on another website or something.......

SDJay

(1,089 posts)
49. Probably Not, But
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:41 AM
Jan 2016

From what I've read and understand, Bernie is not an atheist. He simply chooses not to push it into people's faces in public, which I really respect given how so many Rs never STFU about how they love them some Republican Jesus, as he's the foundation of their hatred for basically everyone.

In fact, I'd guess - and let's be honest, all we can do is guess - that he's more publicly honest about his beliefs than Hillary or even Obama, whom I've always thought to be a closet agnostic. But again, that's just a guess. Religion is just part of the whole kabuki dance of being a public figure in this country, and I don't like that at all.

It's strange, too, in that atheists/agnostics now make up a pretty big part of the population. Something around 20-25 percent if I recall correctly, which makes them the second largest group. You'd think it wouldn't be political voodoo to just acknowledge what you believe or don't, but it still is.

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
52. many people don't get it...judaism is a non proselytizing religion
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:45 AM
Jan 2016

most religions, actually are not. people get confused because christianity is huge on proselytizing and get in people's face all the time, so some think if you are not harassing someone hourly about their faith, then you don't have one.

interestingly enough, the other big conversion/proselytizing religion is islam.

liberal N proud

(60,336 posts)
54. The issues voter had with Obama - I don't think this will fare much better
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:46 AM
Jan 2016

Religion of the candidate always rears it's ugly head. So much so that candidate have suddenly found God to make sure they don't get attacked by the religious fanatics.

He will either suddenly find a church that he will have claimed to attend for years or lose.

bklyncowgirl

(7,960 posts)
65. It might be easier for a secular Jew than for someone who was born Christian but left the Church.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:53 AM
Jan 2016

This is a majority Christian, majority Protestant country. A religious Jew might make people nervous. Even JFK, a Catholic, had to distance himself from his church.

Someone a little more secular can reach across to Christians more easily and come off as less threatening to their beliefs. Religious Christians on the other hand may distrust one of their own who broke away from the fold more than they trust someone from a different tradition.


in_cog_ni_to

(41,600 posts)
67. Religious bigotry has no place in politics!
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:54 AM
Jan 2016

Shame on you for bringing it here.


He's a racist!!!11!!! didn't work.
Guns attacks didn't work.
Healthcare attacks didn't Work.
Red Baiting - SOCIALIST!!!111!!!11! Didn't work.

So now you've moved onto religious bigotry. Pathetic and shameful

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

in_cog_ni_to

(41,600 posts)
75. Exactly. I can't wait to see what they pull out of their bag of slime next.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:59 AM
Jan 2016

They have no ethics. None. Nada. Zip. Zero!

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
80. A thread claiming Obama wasn't really a Christian would get hidden or locked and righfully so..
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:02 AM
Jan 2016

But I guess intolerance against Bernie is just fine.

in_cog_ni_to

(41,600 posts)
89. Yep...always has been.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:13 AM
Jan 2016

The crap they've gotten away with here would have never have been allowed if it was aimed at HRH.

This one really takes the cake.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

 

Goblinmonger

(22,340 posts)
83. It's a fun Catch 22
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:05 AM
Jan 2016

They want people to say how Jewish he actually is so they can go back to #NewYorkJew

It's despicable.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
85. Brought to you by the same candidate who refused to say Omama wasn't a Muslim in 2008.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:07 AM
Jan 2016

Notice how the other Hillary supporters are either agreeing with this or silent?

 

Goblinmonger

(22,340 posts)
70. The fact we have to ask that question is depressing.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:56 AM
Jan 2016

And, no, probably not. If Sanders were to come out and say he is an atheist, that would be it. What he said in that interview is likely as close as anybody is going to get to saying they are an atheist.

Why should his lack of interest in religion make him unappealing to African American voters? Do they think he is going to outlaw religion? I mean, he's Jewish which gives a certain level of tension to Christianity. Why isn't that hurting him?

kennetha

(3,666 posts)
79. It is depressing
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:01 AM
Jan 2016

I'm a dyed in the wool atheist. I would love to see a self-declared atheist as president someday.

African American are among the most religious people in America, especially in the South and are highly suspicious of people who lack religion.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
87. How is he an atheist when he said he "believes" in God?
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:09 AM
Jan 2016

I don't believe you, no atheist I know defines atheism as believing in God.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
100. Staying on message. Religious bigotry seems to be the order of the day, literally.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:39 AM
Jan 2016

There are at least two threads like this here right now.

in_cog_ni_to

(41,600 posts)
95. Being raised Jewish means there is no "lack of religion" here. Are you kidding me?
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:33 AM
Jan 2016

Jews live Judaism. It's the fabric of their lives. If he had a Bar Mitzvah he was in Hebrew school CONSTANTLY. It means he knows more about religion than most people....including Christians who go to church 5 times a week.

Perhaps, as an adult, he chose his own path to be a non practicing Jew. So what! It doesn't mean jack shit. He said he believes in G-D. And that's more than anyone needed to know because IN THIS COUNTRY, we do NOT have a religious litmus test! That's disgusting.

And what's really unconscionable is having that RELIGIOUS LITMUS TEST BROUGHT HERE BY HRH's supporters...because they know she's losing Iowa and NH. It's despicable.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

Bad Thoughts

(2,524 posts)
91. There are several things you don't get
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:27 AM
Jan 2016

First, "is America ready" is a dangerous meme that has no place in the Democratic Party. It can be applied broadly and loosely to many individuals and groups, disempowering them. Is America ready for a Catholic? An African-American? An Hispanic? A Woman? There will be few who are immune is we decide that the question deserves to be pursued. Every candidate will of course struggle in presenting their biography to the American people, integrating personal beliefs with political practices. However, saying that "America is not ready" for one kind of person or another can have a damaging effect on all people of that group.

Second, Judaism is not the decrepit grandfather of Christianity. You keep trying to apply Christian concepts of theism to Judaism that don't hold. Monotheism and idolatry are fairly different, to the point that representations of G-d are impossible and speculation about the nature of G-d is fraught. I'd say that the nature of G-d is a secondary concern to most Jews; even the most orthodox will focus on the meaning of commandments and how to put them into practice. Indeed, it is the interpretation of the commandments that divides Jews more. Subsequently, the many different interpretations of the nature of G-d not only co-exist, they are often peripheral. In the end, the binary between theism and pantheism, or the supposed association of pantheism and non-religion don't really exist in the context of Judaism.

Bad Dog

(2,025 posts)
104. Americans are religious.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:47 AM
Jan 2016

This would not be an issue anywhere else in the developed world. In the UK we have a state religion and the end result is the least religious country in the developed world. Socialism isn't a dirty word over here either, we Socialists are proud to call ourselves as such.

Jeremy Corbyn is a Socialist, Sanders isn't, not by a long chalk.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
120. "No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:51 PM
Jan 2016

under the United States."

Article VI, Clause 3 of the United States Constitution

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
121. Why do the Bernie backers protest so much?
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:13 PM
Jan 2016

Why doesn't Bernie step up and spell out exactly what he believes in? Is it a big secret or something?

Do his backers actually think the republicans would not use his religion or lack thereof as a weapon against him?

Just like his socialism will be called communism, his religion...or not, whatever (I'm confused ) will be all over the country in republican attack ads.

Better to deal with it now and settle it. What's the big deal?

 

bvf

(6,604 posts)
139. Rs aren't the only ones.
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 05:15 PM
Jan 2016

There's a ton of garbage being done right here in this thread. You just responded to some.

 

PowerToThePeople

(9,610 posts)
126. This American would prefer a non believer
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 12:06 AM
Jan 2016

But I will settle for anyone who does not try to push their fairh onto the public.

Peace Patriot

(24,010 posts)
131. The 'religious' ones have screwed our country over pretty much non-stop...
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 01:58 AM
Jan 2016

...since Reagan, so maybe it's time to try something different, eh?



I couldn't help saying this, I feel it so strongly. The presidents and other politicians who have robbed us blind over the last 3 1/2 decades, have sent our young people to die in unjust wars, have slaughtered millions, and have utterly abandoned the poor majority, meanwhile parading themselves as religious, make me sick!

My first thought was to ignore this outrageous attack on Bernie Sanders, a man of Jewish heritage who actually practices the best values of the Judeo-Christian tradition, such as honesty, compassion, helping the poor and pursuing justice. But I can't ignore it. Feeding religious prejudice is truly foul, and is just as dangerous as other kinds of xenophobia.

I don't know if this disgusting OP was a put-up job for or by the Clinton campaign, or merely a clueless partisan acting unilaterally. Unfortunately, Hillary Clinton doesn't have a good record as to "dirty tricks," lies and slander. All I can say is that it is a scurrilous OP that makes the Clinton campaign look very bad, indeed, whether they are guilty of it or not, and it will surely backfire on them, whether they deserve it or not.

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
132. Hell yes! I literally cannot wait!
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 02:00 AM
Jan 2016

Last edited Fri Jan 29, 2016, 02:38 AM - Edit history (1)

It's about time we got God out of the White house.

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