If Clinton had beat Obama, would the ACA even exist?

[Skwmom]

I don't think so UNLESS she got contributions from the health insurance industry.

In that case, most definitely.

Single-payer which would save this country money, lower labor costs and save thousands in deaths each year - not a chance.

[Recursion]

1. I'd imagine something like it would, though it might be closer to a rebooted Blue Cross

What makes you think it wouldn't?

[Skwmom]

7. I think b/c of her healthcare defeat she will never take on another big challenge again.

Last edited Thu Jan 28, 2016, 01:32 PM - Edit history (1)

No wonder she is an incrementalist.

Plus, I think her benefactors will keep her busy.

Note, my update. It depended where she was getting her money from.

[pnwmom]

11. Use your logical skills. She took on the huge challenge of running for President AGAIN.

This is plenty of evidence showing that she is persistent in the face of defeat.

And there is ZERO evidence that any of the Dems who helped Obama pass the ACA would have refused to help her with her very similar plan.

[Skwmom]

18. Seriously? One is fighting for the American People while one is if fighting for her own desire to

be Pres. Looking at it logically there is a BIG difference.

[jeff47]

23. Really?

Her efforts in 1993 were thwarted. She then...stopped fighting.

[Armstead]

29. Bingo...They had a bad plan, and then abandoned it for over a decade

[pnwmom]

33. She did not. She helped push through the program for children, CHIP.

And when she ran for President in 2008, she was back with a new health care proposal, which basically became the ACA.

[jeff47]

35. Make sure you forget about that little window between those two things

I guess she was home doing nothing in that window. She certainly wasn't in a position to introduce legislation or anything that would actually be continuing the fight.

[pnwmom]

36. Oh, yeah. That little window when she was Secretary of State.

She didn't accomplish anything then either.

[jeff47]

37. No, that would be after the time you were talking about.

First, you talked about what she did as first lady. Then you talked about her 2008 campaign. She was something in between those two, but I just can't quite put my finger on it. Certainly not in any sort of political position where she could propose legislation.......

[lunamagica]

2. Clinton promoted children's health care

n a sharp exchange with John Edwards during a Jan. 5, 2008, debate in New Hampshire, Hillary Clinton made the case that she has a well-established record of fighting for change. She pointed to her role in starting the State Children's Health Insurance Program, called SCHIP. The program, created in 1997, promotes health coverage for children by providing federal funding to states. The states then put up their own money and set rules to provide care for uninsured children.

"There are 7,000 kids in New Hampshire who have health care because I helped to create the Children's Health Insurance Program," Clinton said.

Clinton's number is correct. A study by the Kaiser Family Foundation found that in June 2006, there were 7,688 children enrolled in SCHIP in New Hampshire.

Clinton is also on solid ground saying that she helped to create SCHIP. Much of the credit for SCHIP usually goes to Sen. Ted Kennedy, D-Mass., who shepherded the legislation through a Republican-controlled Congress. But the Clinton campaign has said previously that she used her influence behind the scenes to push for SCHIP, and there is evidence to support that.

Soon after the legislation passed, the New York Times reported, "Participants in the campaign for the health bill both on and off Capitol Hill said the first lady had played a crucial behind-the-scenes role in lining up White House support."

In a previous campaign ad, Clinton claimed credit for SCHIP without any qualifiers, and we found that contention Half True, given the other people who had a hand in passing the legislation. (See that ruling here .) But in this case, she accurately said she helped to create SCHIP (as in she wasn't the only one), and she got the number right on how many children are enrolled in New Hampshire. For these reasons, we rate Clinton's statement True.

[Eric J in MN]

3. Yes. Health insurance lobbyists wanted it. Especially individual mandate and no public option. NT

NT

[Cali_Democrat]

4. And Bernie voted for it. nt

[Eric J in MN]

5. Yes, he did. Shows he will compromise to get things done. NT

NT

[Skwmom]

6. ACA was a great interim fix but it is not sustainable in the long run.

If I were Obama, as my legacy I'm much rather be looked upon as the President that successfully opened the door to healthcare for all as a right. That would be one hell of a legacy....

[nationalize the fed]

14. And how did Obamacere "open the door"?

Obamacare mandated that every citizen alive pay insurance companies for the rest of their lives. And Obama campaigned against this mandate, and then promised that there would be a public insurance option, which was never implemented.

Obama promises a public insurance option

Reid promises a public option

What "Obamacare" did was mandate every citizen to pay monthly for something that most will never use. (edit) thereby making it almost impossible to institute any alternative.

[slipslidingaway]

8. Probably not, but is moving an important issue from the front burner to the back burner ....

really helpful? Or is it just literally putting it on hold to the detriment of millions of people.

I think it has been detrimental instead of incremential, some opinions may differ.

[Hekate]

9. Given how much blood, sweat, and tears she shed in the 1990s trying to get universal health care...

....introduced into the Senate, how can you or anyone else even ask that question?

Must be some form of universal amnesia going around -- but I suspect you can get that treated under Obamacare.

[jeff47]

22. Because she stopped when her effort in 1993 failed.

History isn't just the parts you like.

[Hekate]

31. The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy cut the legs out from under her. Remember them? DU used to...

DU used to take their existence and malevolence as a given. And there is no question they have tried again and again to destroy Hillary Clinton.

So after the Clintons managed to survive the White House years when weaker folks would have crawled into a hole and died, they formed the Clinton Global Initiative and spent their political capital trying to do good in the world, including the US.

But do people here acknowledge that? Nooooo. The Clintons also got rich, and like crabs in a bucket there are plenty of folks who just can't stand that. Ideology seems to play a part, like No Good and Pure Democrat Would Ever Get Rich, and envy surely plays a part as well.

Hillary Clinton has worked her whole life for the betterment of women, children, and men. That's history too.

I'm not looking for a plaster saint to elect; I'm looking for a competent, intelligent achiever who is also a Democrat.

[jeff47]

34. I'm well aware. That doesn't change that she stopped trying.

Nor does changing the subject to the Clinton's foundation. And if you're going to start talking about money and trying to do good, you're going to run into things like their poor performance in Haiti.

Hillary Clinton has worked her whole life for the betterment of women, children, and men. That's history too.

This claim gets made often, but keeps not being backed up when she actually had power to.

Where's the bills she introduced in the Senate for the betterment of women, children and men?

[Hekate]

38. Pfft. ONCE AGAIN here is a list of her accomplishments

http://bluenationreview.com/lets-talk-about-the-good-that-hillary-has-done-in-the-world/

[jeff47]

39. So you couldn't find any legislation then?

So odd if she's such a fighter and so devoted to these causes. You'd think she'd have introduced at least one bill.

[pnwmom]

10. Why not? It was a huge priority of hers. All the Dems would have supported her in it,

just as they supported Obama.

She probably wouldn't have gotten Rethug support, but neither did Obama.

[DanTex]

12. Yes, and it would be about the same. They ran on basically the same plan.

If Bernie had been president in 2008, though, we'd have nothing.

[Goblinmonger]

20. So you had a chance to use your time machine to visit alternative timelines

and that's what you picked? What else happened when Bernie won the election in that alternate universe? Did ISIS also start WWIII and blow up the whole planet?

[bec]

13. Not only that

She would have defended DOMA because she does not believe in same sex marriage.

[dsc]

15. it would have

Health care was her top priority and the aca is her plan without the public option

[eridani]

16. Possibly. However, the Iran agreement and the opening to Cuba probably wouldn't n/t

[Skinner]

17. ACA is closer to Clinton's plan during the 2008 campaign than to Obama's plan.

Clinton and Obama were advocating virtually identical health care plans during the 2008 campaign. The primary difference was that Clinton's plan included an individual mandate whereas Obama's did not.

So I think it is safe to conclude that yes, we probably would have had ACA even if Clinton won in 2008.

[book_worm]

19. To be honest--I think not.

A lot of people didn't want Obama to spend so much political capital on health care but to concentrate on the economy. I think that Hillary might have bought into it. Who knows? politically it might have been the right thing to do and might have meant less losses in 2010, but I still think Obama was right and as somebody who works signing up folks for ACA--I can say it is a very good program that could be better--and I'm hoping it's the first step towards Medicare for All.

[jeff47]

21. No. When it hit the rocks with Brown's election

Clinton would have taken one of the proposed quarter-measures instead of continuing to fight for the bill.

[Binkie The Clown]

24. Wall Street would have had a wonderful new health plan though. n/t

[bigwillq]

25. I say probably not

But it's useless to play the "what if" game

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. The irony is she was for the mandate during the primary which Barack Obama opposed.

In his book "Believer", David Axelrod indicated that PBO knew it was necessary at the time but it was not politically popular.


I am not upset with the president. That's politics.

[Jarqui]

27. Romney would be fighting for a second term about now

[Agnosticsherbet]

28. Healthcare was a feature of the 2008 Democratic Primary.

I think Clinton would have pushed "Hillarycare," which would have looked in every case like "Obamacare."

[Orsino]

30. We would just call it HillaryCare.

It would be more or less the ACA we have.

[karynnj]

32. yes and it would likely look similar with a big if

However that assumes the same Congress as elected. Obama needed every Senator he had. If even one race won as lost, there would be no ACA. I doubt that she would have had quite the coattails. The huge youth and black vote might not have happened.

What would not have happened is the Iran deal and the climate change pact.