Bernie Sanders Ducks Unsanctioned Debate, Clinton and O'Malley Are Game

[Cali_Democrat]

BY TAYLOR WOFFORD ON 1/27/16 AT 12:10 PM

For months, Bernie Sanders has blasted the Democratic National Committee and its chairwoman, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, for not scheduling enough debates to give voters a proper chance to choose between himself and his Democratic competitors, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and former Maryland Governor Martin O'Malley.

But, after the New Hampshire Union Leader, New Hampshire's largest newspaper, announced Tuesday that it will host an additional debate, unsanctioned by the DNC, on February 4, Sanders campaign manager Jeff Weaver told The New York Times that Sanders does not want to participate for fear of retribution from the DNC.

The DNC "said this will be an unsanctioned debate, so we would not want to jeopardize our ability to participate in future debates," Weaver told the Times. If the party decides to sanction the debate, Sanders's stance could change, Weaver added.

Clinton and O'Malley, meanwhile, seemed eager at the prospect of another debate. "Hillary Clinton would be happy to participate in a debate in New Hampshire if the other candidates agree, which would allow the DNC to sanction the debate,” a Clinton campaign spokesman told the Union Leader.

"We look forward to participating, John Bivona, a spokesman for O’Malley, told the paper. “Today is a big victory not only for our campaign and our supporters that championed this effort, but it is also a victory for voters across New Hampshire and the United States."

Read more:

http://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-unsanctioned-debate-new-hampshire-420225

[synergie]

1. The Bernie supporters were all on board, and heckling Clinton, before they realized

who was not so eager, so now they're turned and are attacking Clinton for being willing to do the thing they were abusing her for not doing.

<sigh>

[NurseJackie]

12. Typical.

[roguevalley]

19. Hillary has a lock with DWS and O'Malley would need a miracle to win. This is a

loser for Bernie because DWS would IMMEDIATELY ban him from the last two debates to help Hillary. Its called tactics. He would be there but for DWS's collusion with HRC.

[AgingAmerican]

28. That is exactly what would happen

[Sheepshank]

31. Are you saying in all honesty that DNC would only ban Bernie, and not the other two?

how interesting and wrong.

[roguevalley]

77. you didn't get it but I will elaborate. She is covered both ways. If they allow it, she's on board

as being willing to go. If they don't, she's willing to go. Win-win for her, a loser for Bernie. All he has to do is go and then DWS bans him. He has ZERO reason to trust her. That is why its a win-win. You're wrong.

[valerief]

52. They might even bump him from the Dem ticket for disobeying their stringent rules. nt

[SheenaR]

15. He is eager. Sanction it.

Weird... Last week I remember reading HRC was the last to agree to the Town Hall... (sigh)

[synergie]

86. He needs to tell them that, it can't just be you guys reading his mind. Yeah,

there is a whole lot of stuff going around, most of it is not really fact based. Though, why would it matter if she was first, last or second?

[mhatrw]

78. How fucking Orwellian.

The exact opposite is true. Hillary was in total control of debate schedule. She limited the number of debates and made sure they took place at strange times and dates to ensure the smallest possible audience.

Now that Sanders is winning despite the corporate media lockout and the lack of scheduled debates, Clinton wants the power to set up and shut down whatever debates she and her corporate media cronies want whenever and wherever she and her corporate cronies want.

Sorry, but she is now negotiating from a position of weakness. She does not get to call every shot anymore.

[synergie]

87. Um yeah, just because you heartily believe something, doesn't make it true.

Sanders wanted debates, and when offered them, he's the one dragging his feet, it's not Orwellian, it's just dishonest to pretend that the conspiracy theories about Hillary's supposed control makes what's he's doing somehow different than what it is.

Sanders hasn't won anything, nor has anyone else, not a single vote has been cast yet, and to anyone actually watching and listening with their eyes, ears and brains on, there has been no corporate media lockout of Bernie or support of Hillary.


Sorry, but there is no "negotiation", there is just Bernie flip flopping on debates and you guys spinning every desperate way possible to try to hide that simple fact and try to somehow still slime Hillary, because that's kinda what you guys do, she said no to debates, she's evil, she said yes to debates she's evil!

The hysteria, desperation and the projection is amusing. You might want to go read some Orwell, you don't really seem to understand how to use that term properly.

[jillan]

2. DWS has stated over and over again that anyone that participates in an UNsanctioned debate

will be banned from the sanctioned debates.

Did Debbie change the rules?

[synergie]

17. It would seem that you have moved the goalposts. Expressing a willingness to participate

is not the same thing as actually participating, and if all three wanted to, DWS is pretty much forced to sanction it.

Bernie is the one who apparently has changed his mind after demanding more debates, now that he's offered one, he doesn't want it.

[TheBlackAdder]

22. The goal is to cancel the next two debates, to benefit HRC. HRC is good at forums, bad in debates.

.


Studying politics for many years, this isn't about having more debates, violating the DNC agreement.


This is about agreeing to debates that could impact later debates for the Southern Primary state elections.


====


If this is desired by all campaigns, why is the DNC stalling?


You will see an attempt to pressure a debate, which will not have much of an effect in NH.

But, if the candidates are people of rules, then why the big desire to be rule-breakers with their party? Why Now?


But, you already know this.


.

[synergie]

93. Sure, I'm sure your conspiracy theory based on your own power of wishing must make

reality so.

She does pretty good at debates, that's why the online polls have to be gamed in Bernie's favor.

If Bernie doesn't wish to after all the fuss you guys made, that's on him and his performance issues.

There is no "rule breaking" there is an expression of willingness to debate, there is a lot of hysteria and deliberate dishonesty and spin to cover Bernie's failure to say what his fellow candidates have said, that would force the DNC to give in to what Bernie once claimed he wanted, but apparently he's no longer interested, and thus the big desire to be oh so very supportive of that establishment that he's fighting. You'd break the rules if you participated in a debate, not expressing interest in having one.

So why is he now all pro-establishment and anti-debate? I think you already know, hence the deliberate distortion and the spin.

[Orsino]

42. It's not moving the goal posts to wonder where the hell DWS is on this.

Sanders committing to playing sanctioned ball is fine with me, as is the willingness to break free signaled by the other candidates.

It's Wasserman-Schultz' call. Tick, tick.

[synergie]

95. Ah but that wasn't what you were wondering. Sanders, like his fellow candidates

can indeed express interest in the debate, and that would force DWS' hand. It's not against the rules to express interest, and he's not showing much commitment to that stance where he was calling for more debates, when upon offer of another one, he balks, when his opponents are on board.

He's playing this game badly. After an entire career in politics, this is sloppy.

[Orsino]

96. I'm not sure where your opinion is coming from.

Being cautious about baking a party rule isn't bad, any more than the other candidates' signaled interest is bad. DWS has again forbidden extracurricular debating, and if that line holds, no one will remember what never happened.

[elias49]

90. Willfull ignorance. Shameful.

[synergie]

94. Indeed it is, why do Bernie folks choose such a shameful stance?

[asuhornets]

69. No she didn't change the rules but

apparently Bernie changed his mind. I wonder why?

[jillan]

70. Bernie is following the DNC rules, how is that changing his mind?

[asuhornets]

73. Bernie and his supporters

were complaining about more debates were needed.. Then why can't we start in New Hampshire. Bernie wants debates in New York, Illinois, and California because they are Hillary's states. He knows what he is doing.

[Orsino]

97. That's not a call for unsanctioned debates. n/t

[Warren Stupidity]

3. Um, uh, not ducking, wants clear ruling from DWS

that participation will not result in being barred from the two upcoming "sanctioned" debates.

[pandr32]

10. Right...

Like if HC and MOM did the unsanctioned debate then the only one left for the sanctioned debate would be BS?

[Warren Stupidity]

11. According to the rules, yes.

So DWS either sanctions this debate or decides to not enforce the rules.

[synergie]

18. If the entire field of Dems wanted to participate, she can't do anything, that's not a difficult

conclusion to reach. The fact that he doesn't want to participate now doesn't look good for Bernie.

[mhatrw]

79. Sure she can. DWS can ban all candidates from the remaining debates.

Then Hillary gets to pick and choose wherever and whenever she is willing to debate again, if she ever feels the need to do so.

[synergie]

85. Stop and think about what you just said there for a second, and let us know

when you figure out why it's ridiculous.

[lasttrip]

4. let's go DNC

Clinton: DNC should authorize additional Democratic debate next week
Reuters
Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:42pm EST

U.S. Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton called on the Democratic National Committee on Wednesday to authorize an additional debate in New Hampshire next week for the party's candidates.

"I am, you know, anxious if we can get something set up to be able to be there," she said in an interview with MSNBC which will air later Wednesday. "So, let’s try to make it happen."

She said she would like to see DNC chairwoman Debbie Wasserman-Schultz and the campaigns of the other two candidates, Bernie Sanders and Martin O'Malley, to agree to the new debate.



Link: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-clinton-idUSKCN0V52CE

[PoliticAverse]

5. Clinton has indicated she won't do an unsanctioned debate and DWS isn't sanctioning the NH debate.

[Motown_Johnny]

6. Bernie wants rules upheld. Hillary and Martin ready to break them at the drop of a hat.

Integrity


Look it up

[FSogol]

9. Arbitrary party decisions are not rules or laws. They can easily be changed.

Revolution stalled because they didn't want to break a rule?

[Motown_Johnny]

24. Sorry you are wrong

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/dem-primaries/267120-dnc-will-not-sanction-additional-debates

^snip^

DNC rules stipulate that any candidate who participates in an unsanctioned debate forfeits the opportunity to attend contests sanctioned by the party. A DNC aide told The Hill that the party is not considering lifting that policy.

[FSogol]

25. I'm not a Clinton supporter and I know the rules. They rules are wrong and should be challenged.

Call DWS's bluff.

[Motown_Johnny]

27. I edited it sorry.

That snarky response made you sound like one, my bad.


But you are wrong. It is a rule.

[Motown_Johnny]

36. He fired everyone involved. What more do you want?

The data company did fuck up. They do hold some blame.



Maybe you should be a bit more honest about your arguments. Then again, it seems your definition of the word "integrity" does not compel you to do that.

[Sheepshank]

37. i deleted before I realized you responded

Still, I do stand by my original words....Bernie and his weasely spokesperson Weaver, blamed everyone but themselves.

[Motown_Johnny]

39. Weaver and Bernie didn't do anything and everyone got fired.

Honestly, it was dealt with. No cover up. Everyone involved, Fired.

[Sheepshank]

45. everyone? doubt it. n/t

[Motown_Johnny]

47. Based on what? n/t

[Sheepshank]

49. On what basis do you know that "Everyone" has been fired?

I believe Weaver had been manipulating and withholding info from Bernie for a long time. Once Bernie was notified of the thefts, he knew Weaver had to have been involved with the theft and the cover up. Weaver has not been fired.

[Motown_Johnny]

51. The downside of being caught in a cover up is so much worse than

firing some staffer makes it unreasonable to assume they would do that.


Even Clinton's campaign is not as far off in fantasy land as you are.


Your beliefs are completely baseless.

[LiberalArkie]

50. distrust of anyone who does not agree.

[Matariki]

7. Oooh! Politics!

[mmonk]

8. Bernie is a smart mouse. He won't go for the cheese.

[immoderate]

56. It's a ...

--imm

[litlbilly]

13. Bernie is not gonna fall for Hillary and DWS attempt to save her campaign. Too funny

[Renew Deal]

14. Hillary and O'Malley should show up

Sanders will show up too if they do.

[randome]

16. If all 3 go to an unsanctioned debate, how would the DNC react? Reject them all? Doubt that.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)[/center][/font][hr]

[FSogol]

26. Exactly. Call DWS's bluff. n/t

[mhatrw]

80. Bluff? DWS will cancel the last 2 debates in a heartbeat if she thinks this will give Clinton

any advantage.

[Ferd Berfel]

20. Catch 22 - IF Bernie Attends - the DNC will find a way to screw him for it.

If he doesn't attend Hilllary gets a free Soapbox

[Cali_Democrat]

21. So if all 3 candidates attend, the DNC will only screw Bernie? nt

[AgingAmerican]

30. Hillary would not show up

[mhatrw]

81. Yes. By canceling the last 2 scheduled debates, thus allowing Clinton to schedule

or not scheduled any more debates at her whim.

[Agnosticsherbet]

23. If everyone attends, no one can be screwed. The candidates can "Trump" the DNC.

What this shows to me is that Sanders wasn't being 100% truthful when he called for more debates.

[AgingAmerican]

29. Hillary would simply not show up

Thus getting Sanders booted off the debate schedule.

[Agnosticsherbet]

38. Bullshit...

She already said she will be there.

Sanders is the one refusing to show up, showing he has been less than truthful about wanting debates.

[AgingAmerican]

53. She said she would be there IF IT WERE SANCTIONED

[Agnosticsherbet]

60. She called for the DNC to Sanction it.

Again, Bullshit.
Sanders caught in not being completely honest.

[AgingAmerican]

62. She said she would participate if the DNC sanctioned it

And the DNC said they would not sanction it. IT's a dirty trick. It's a moot point and it is desperate.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/brian-fallon-sanders-holdout-unsanctioned-debate

[Agnosticsherbet]

63. And Sanders is shown to be less the honest.

She said she wanted to debate and called for the DNC to sanction it.

Sanders, crickets. Again, its bullshit.

[AgingAmerican]

65. The DNC has stated they won't sanction it

IT's a moot point.

[mhatrw]

82. Wrong. DWS can take the final 3 scheduled debate off the table.

The candidates could then of course participate in other unsanctioned debates, but only if Clinton agrees to do so.

[SDJay]

32. The Manipulative/Cynical Steps

being taken here are getting ridiculous. Now everyone is baiting everyone else involved to break rules, follow rules, dare someone else to break rules, etc.?

Is this a presidential campaign or an elementary school playground? I realize the Democratic primary looks like a group of adults compared to the baboons on the Repuke side, but that doesn't mean that this still isn't embarrassing.

For those who think Bernie is being overly cautious, let's remember that he's already, from his perspective, been screwed once by the DNC with this whole datagate garbage. I can't blame him for not trusting the DNC to do the right thing.

The right thing is for DWS to get off her ass and sanction this. All three candidates seem to want this, at least publicly.

Seriously, WTF is the harm?

This is mind boggling.

[Go Vols]

33. lol

As a general rule debates are bad for front runners. No front runner ever wants more debates. The Clinton campaign is the 900 lb. gorilla in the Democratic race. If they wanted more debates, the DNC would have scheduled more debates.

It was great of Maddow to ask the question that has been on the minds of most Democrats. The debate schedule has clearly been designed to minimize viewership. Hillary Clinton’s answer was a dodge that passed the buck to the DNC.

http://www.politicususa.com/2016/01/19/rachel-maddow-asks-hillary-clinton-buried-democratic-debates-tv-siberia.html

[AgingAmerican]

35. Bullshit, Hillary won't show up if it is unsanctioned

Clinton is open to participating if other candidates agree and the DNC sanctions the debate.

If it is unsanctioned she simply will not show up.

[LannyDeVaney]

40. Holy crap at the spin ...

The only Bern I'm feeling is from the friction of his supporters spinning like a top.

Yikes. Hypocrisy everywhere.

[mhatrw]

83. LOL. The hypocrisy is that Clinton has controlled the entire debate schedule from the start.

And this is her transparent bid to allow her free rein to renege on the final two debates SHE scheduled and agreed to.

[Uponthegears]

41. Sounds like the ball

is in DWS's court. Sanction the debate and we move forward. Should be simple.

Super . . . looking forward to it.

Someone let me know when she approves it.

[Autumn]

43. Bernie Sanders abiding by their rules as a guest in their house.

[draa]

48. He has no reason to debate at this time. He's the new front-runner so it only helps Clinton.

He's also leading the polling in NH by 16pts or more. Debating Clinton in NH would not benefit Bernie at all so let DWS and HRC suck an egg.

They chose these shitty debate schedule. Now that she's losing it's coming back to bite the DNC in the ass and she's scrambling to help Clinton again. Screw those assholes.

[Autumn]

54. Exactly. There is no benefit to him in playing Debs and Hills game.

DWS would just find the worlds worst person to "host" it anyway.

[MoonRiver]

44. Bernie sucks at debates.

This is an example of that old maxim "be careful what you wish for."

[NurseJackie]

55. Am I recalling correctly that Bernie's poll numbers would often dip after a debate?

I can't recall.


Note to Jury: I'm asking a question. I'm not making a statement. I do not know if this is true or not, but I want to know for sure. If I happen to be wrong, please keep in mind that I was merely seeking to be informed, and not trying to insult any candidate or candidate's fans.

[MoonRiver]

89. I haven't kept track of all the rolling poll numbers,

but it wouldn't surprise me.

[morningfog]

46. Hillary is NOT on board. Like Bernie, she would only participate if DWS sanctioned it and DWS

has said she will not.

[draa]

57. Facts don't mean anything to these people.

They have lied repeatedly so I doubt any form of truth will register.

[Bobbie Jo]

61. What people are you referring to here?

"these people" ??

[draa]

64. You know who I'm talking about.

Just look through the articles and OP's over the last week or so and you'll find more than enough proof. This is more of the same and so very Republican of this group now.

[Bobbie Jo]

67. So you're referring to the OP?

and who else?

Say what you mean, already. If you're going to throw out the vicious insults, least you can do is stand up and do it right.

[draa]

68. I didn't need to insult them because they've done that to themselves.

From Clinton's daughter lying and people on here running with the lie to the Red baiting and that being used on here as well. No one needs to say anything.

Also..

[Bobbie Jo]

72. Good Lord

What a load.

Vicious nonsense like this has rendered this place unreadable. This "they brought it on themselves" attitude is about as RW as it gets.

Gah...

[draa]

75. Hahaha, you responded to me not the other way around.

Here's my problem with the lies being pushed.

I defend Hillary Clinton against the allegations of Benghazi. Not once but hundreds of times between family, friends, and online. I did that because it was a LIE. Not because I liked Clinton. It was a lie. It was complete and utter bunk and Democrats are the fact based community. We don't need to lie.

When I defend my party, which I've been a member of for decades, I would rather do it against Republicans and not members of my own damn party. Thanks.

[AzDar]

74. ...

[Jarqui]

58. What is with this "ducks" nonsense?

Bernie made an agreement with the DNC that he would not participate in debates that are not sanctioned by the DNC.

He's a man of his word and abiding by his agreement.

What is wrong with that?

If the DNC sanction it, he said he'd reconsider. The DNC have said they will not sanction this NH debate.

End of story as far as Sanders is concerned.

I do not see why that would be a problem for Sanders.

[jeff47]

59. Don'tcha hate it when reality steps in and breaks your carefully-crafted meme?

Sanders calls for a series of more debates in states such as "Illinois, Ohio, California, New York"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511076183

Also, read your own article:

Hillary Clinton would be happy to participate in a debate in New Hampshire if the other candidates agree, which would allow the DNC to sanction the debate

Both Clinton and Sanders are saying the same thing: They'll only participate if the DNC sanctions the debate.

[Nitram]

66. It is dismaying how dishonest many of the most vocal Bernie supporters on DU are.

They go on and on blaming Clinton for rigging the primary process by limiting the number of debates. and when she proposes adding another, they all jump on her for...well I'm really don't understand what. But whatever it is, it is dishonest, cheating, corporatist, rightwing, and nefarious!

[Dawson Leery]

71. It is all BS from the professional left.

This is another change for Bernie to move up in the polls and he is ducking it.

Hillary is clearly the best suited to be President.

[hrmjustin]

76. Sanders needs to get on board!

[whatchamacallit]

91. Or just kick back and prepare to get drunk on your salty tears

[hrmjustin]

92. Always good to see you too!

[Tom Rinaldo]

84. "Hillary Clinton would be happy to participate in a debate in New Hampshire if ...

...the other candidates agree, which would allow the DNC to sanction the debate,”

In other words Hillary won't do it either if the DNC doesn't sanction it. This is a cheap way to try to score political points. Sanders said he won't do a non sanctioned debate - he would do a sanctioned one. So the DNC can sanction it today if the want to. But she said NO.

Hillary is artfully dodging the only real question there is concerning a debate. Will she do it if the DNC refuses to sanction it? No where has she said that she would .

She has the same position that Sanders has but she's just blowing smoke to obscure the fact that that she hasn't agreed to a non sanctioned debate either. She just wants it to look like Sanders is the one standing in the way when really it is still her gal Debbie.

Show me where Hillary says she is willing to do a non DNC sanctioned debate. I haven't seen it.

[elias49]

88. Well that's not true.

Does that matter to you?