I was pushed polled last night in Iowa; Hillary sinks lower than whale poo

[CoffeeCat]

So, the phone rings last night (Monday) and a man on the other end says that he has some questions about the Iowa caucuses that will take no more than 2-3 minutes. I tell him to go ahead.

First, he asks if I'll caucus with the Democrats or Republicans, and I reply, "Democratic."

He then says, "I'm going to read you two statements about each candidate, then ask you three questions.

First statement (which was short), "Bernie Sanders claims that he wants to break up the big banks and make Wall Street pay."

The second statement was very long (and I'm paraphrasing), "Bernie Sander's campaign is running on a singular issue, Wall Street. But being President is about more than one issue. Bernie Sanders has no foreign-policy experience and has never met with a world leader. He is incapable of handling the job of President. U.S. government officials have said that when Bernie Sanders has been in meetings where foreign policy was the issue, he was completely unable to grasp the issues; and he was way over his head and was unable to understand foreign policy."

Again, I'm paraphrasing, but that is the gist. A total slaughter of Sanders and also some lies sprinkled in.

I asked the caller if he could tell me who was commissioning this "poll". He said that he was not allowed to give out that information. I told him that this was a push poll and that it wasn't going to work. He then said, "I don't know what a push poll is. I'm just reading the screen."

He asked the three questions, "Who will you caucus for in the Iowa caucuses?" I said, "Sanders."

He then asked if I would ever consider supporting Clinton in the Iowa caucuses. I said, "I would rather be slid down a razor banister into a vat of lemon juice."

He asked me if I viewed Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders favorably or unfavorably. I said that I viewed Sanders favorably and that I view any Hillary presidency as a tragedy and that I would would rather vote for a rotten ham sandwich than vote for Hillary Clinton, because a rotten ham sandwich is not a lying, warmongering personal masseuse for Wall Street psychos.

He was laughing so hard, he could barely talk.

He asked how old I was and I was proud to tell him that I was a middle-aged woman from Iowa who would be caucusing for Bernie.

You know, Hillary...Iowans are not as dumb as you think we are. But nice try.

[Agschmid]

1. And again... No facts of of any kind.

Par for the course around here.

[CoffeeCat]

2. What do you mean, "No facts of any kind"? (nt)

[99th_Monkey]

8. The 'snark of the day' from Hillarians? Just a wild guess. nt

[CoffeeCat]

13. Facts ARE facts. I was called last night. (nt)

[Agschmid]

21. I don't doubt that...

[rurallib]

240. we get push polls like that all the time

she was reporting what happened. What "facts" are involved?

[Agschmid]

20. More like its a game of telephone... And we all get a version of the truth.

[CoffeeCat]

42. So, you're suggesting that the caller didn't say the things that I reported? (nt)

[Agschmid]

43. You said your self it's not verbatim...

[artislife]

47. Ahh, I hope you do a lot of stretching before reaching so far.

Be kind to your back.

[Agschmid]

53. ...

OP: it's not verbatim.

Poster: "it's not verbatim"

OP + Buddies: "why are you saying it's made up?!?!"

Poster: OP said not "verbatim"... So...

OP + Buddies: Better luck at yoga next time since you clearly are just making shit up even though the OP admitted in the OP that it wasn't verbatim, I reject that conclusion and replace it with the only conclusion that makes sense... Agschmid you are a liar.

[hr]

Just another day at DU...

[artislife]

55. Don't even. I have read all the replies to this OP. nt

[Agschmid]

56. Yes well maybe you should read the OP where the OP says it's not verbatim.

It's just a story...

[artislife]

57. I am done slow dancing with you on this subject. nt

[Agschmid]

65. That's fine, would you rather samba?

[Conch]

133. Good Riddance...

of the slow.

[Paka]

232. Someone who obviously never grew up reading Reader's Digest.

What is there not to understand about a encapsulation of a statement that hits the main points but leaves out an occasional inanimate article or two?

[greiner3]

68. So you are saying that other than the one or two sentence questions that might be easy to

Remember verbatim a question that took a minute to state is, according to you, something with no basis. I doubt the OP tapes their phone calls as this is a progressive board. So it begs the question do you tape your phone calls. Just askin

[Agschmid]

70. No I don't.

But I also don't run to a discussion board and post about them either...

[cui bono]

69. So is anything you read in a newspaper but you accept that as fact. n/t

[Agschmid]

72. No.

That would be foolish. Do you believe everything you read on the Internet?

No.

That would also be foolish.

[cui bono]

73. I didn't say "internet". Twisting everything up again. Yoga anyone?

[Agschmid]

77. Twisting lol...

Got it.

So when the OP says it's not verbatim... I'm twisting.

[cui bono]

89. You are twisting in the wind all over this OP.

[Agschmid]

91. Yup... Sure.

Like I said have at me I can take it.

[Paka]

233. Not verbatim is not synonymous to incorrect.

[Agschmid]

270. Again... That wasn't my point.

[roguevalley]

82. so even if you report the facts as you lived them you are

still a liar if you don't speak well for Hillary.

[Agschmid]

84. Nope not what I said...

But go for it.

[Fuddnik]

92. It's not what you said, it's what you're obviously doing. How Bushesque.

[Agschmid]

94. Sort of like name calling...

I won't resort to it.

[nxylas]

120. Or Clintonian

"Not verbatim" is exactly the same thing as "made up". Trusssst in me. Jusssst in me.

[Agschmid]

151. Class act, calling me a snake. Fun stuff.

[Goblinmonger]

180. But the Bush thing you did?

That was classy?

[Agschmid]

183. Now we are calling me a Bush...

Name calling... Apparently all you've got.

[John Poet]

191. EXACTLY.

And now you understand the rules of the game...

[CoffeeCat]

111. Just because something isn't "verbatim"

does not mean that it is made up. That's not even logical.

You are being ridiculous.

I'm a grown adult with terrific hearing. I know what I heard.

I couldn't believe in 2008, that I was pushed polled about John Edwards being an inferior candidate because of Elizabeth's cancer diagnosis. I didn't recall that call verbatim either.

But it happened. Other Iowans said they received the call as well.

[Rilgin]

192. Next

In this post, we see the formulation of the next Meme from the Hillary camp. She did not actually vote for the war as we keep saying because we do not remember or know if she said "Aye" or "Yes".

She didn't really say that mariage was only between a man and a woman because its not an exact quote and I made a typo.

I am amazed you had to even go through this thead.

[riversedge]

152. Chuckle. They try to twist you like a pretzel but you remainded strong.

[Agschmid]

156. I heard I was blowing in the wind...

[riversedge]

158. Ah well, it was a gentle breeze then.

[Perogie]

209. what in the world does remainded mean?

Can you please define that word?

[BeanMusical]

212. It's Clintonian Newspeak.

[Bubzer]

298. I think Agschmid did a pretty good job of self-pretzeling.

[lob1]

170. Just because it's not verbatim doesn't mean it's a lie.

What facts do you have to prove he/she is lying?

[Agschmid]

184. I never said the OP was lying...

They certainly got the call. And push polls do suck.

[Bluenorthwest]

269. "No facts of any kind" is what you said. That means it is all untrue, all false, you are calling the

OP a liar. Words have meanings and once you toss then at someone you can't redefine them. 'No facts of any kind'.

Prove that assertion. You made it. Prove it. But you won't because you can't. You are full of hot air and dust.

[Agschmid]

271. No saying that there "are no facts of any kind"... Is NOT calling the OP a liar.

It's just not, I know everyone wants to frame it that way but it's not.

There are no facts of any kind to connect this to Hillary, or any campaign for that matter. That was my point.

I'll just keep blowing my hot air and dust because apparently that's enough to create this shit show of a subthread. It's pretty ridiculous to see how many people resorted to personal insults here... It's the new DU normal I guess.

[Bluenorthwest]

276. Since you clearly need to review the basics, here is the definition of the verb 'to lie':

a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.
Synonyms: prevarication, falsification.
Antonyms: truth.

2.something intended or serving to convey a false impression; imposture:
His flashy car was a lie that deceived no one.
3. an inaccurate or false statement; a falsehood.


Here is 'Verbatim' so you can see what it means:

" adverb
1.in exactly the same words; word for word.


So 'these are not the exact words but the sense of the words' is what the OP stated, you responded with this assertion: Again, no facts of any kind.

The English language is what it is. If you used words you regret, say sorry and delete the insult. Or prove your assertion.

[Agschmid]

277. Yes and I used "verbatim" so if your point is they have different meanings... YES.

That's what's I've been saying this whole time. Not once did I call CoffeeCat a liar... In fact multiple times I clearly stated they were NOT.

Yet here we are...

Over and over...

It's just odd at this point.

[Bluenorthwest]

281. You said the OP had no facts of any kind. You need to prove that assertion or drop that smear.

And I am quoting you verbatim 'No facts of any kind'. Your assertion is that the OP is without any facts of any kind, this means you claim she did not get a phone call, it was not a poll and they did not ask those questions. No facts. Of any kind. None, all of it not factual, not true.

Do you even hear yourself? You made an assertion, prove it or admit it is baseless crap you said to have something to say.

[sabrina 1]

253. I got the gist. The call was from Hillary's campaign. The objective was to paint Bernie as bad on FP

It failed. It will fail because everyone knows that Bernie was RIGHT on Iraq and Hillary was wrong.

So it's not complicated.

What is it that you doubt?

What gets me is that they think War Mongering is popular with the American people.

Bernie has he Veterans fully in his corner and they are doing an awesome job of campiagning for him. They don't like Hillary because they believe she will send the troops to war when it is not necessary

Frankly FP is one of her weakest issue considering most Dems were opposed to Iraq and haven't changed their minds.

Not sure who's advising her, but imo, she needs a new team.

[Bluenorthwest]

268. 'not verbatim' is one thing, you stated 'No facts of any kind'. You called the OP a liar, and that

sucks. 'No facts of any kind' he says loudly and without any support for that bold assertion.

[Agschmid]

272. Nope didn't call the OP a liar, that's just the frame you all came up with to attack.

It's funny... It happens all the time.

But again people see what they want to see, and hear what they want to see.

[Bluenorthwest]

280. Well you did not call her a liar verbatim but that was the sense of your declaration that the OP had

"No facts of any kind". You are calling it a prevarication, devoid of truth and fact. The words mean what they mean, not what you want them to mean from moment to moment.

You made an assertion that the OP is not speaking factually. You should either prove that assertion or stop making such baseless assertions. It is your job to prove your assertion. Either do that or you are just doing a smear, bearing false witness. Anyone can assert anything about anyone else, if they can't prove it they are not to be taken as honest brokers.

[Agschmid]

282. The words do mean what they mean...

And in context they mean there is nothing to indicate this is from Clinton HQ.

If someone could prove this push poll was sanctioned by her, I'd drop her faster as my candidate than a bag of rocks off Empire State Building.

The push poll is crap, the other push poll Coffee Cat experienced about Elizabeth Edwards is also crap no one should campaign like that. It doesn't do any good for anyone involved.

Again... CoffeeCat is not a liar they clearly got the call. That's not up for debate.

[Bluenorthwest]

293. Then why did you allow yourself language which said otherwise? 'No facts of any kind. Par for the

course around here' is what you said. You are the one who put every single word of the OP on the table as being devoid of all facts of any kind. Not 'I think you are making assumptions' but 'No facts of any kind, par for the course'. That says not one thing in the OP is factual and that this is how the OP always behaves, par for the course, no facts of any kind.

You allow yourself strong assertions which when challenged can not be supported.

[Plucketeer]

80. There's the final word, CoffeeCat

YOU are obviously INcapable of relating the honest truth of your phone conversation because you didn't have a recording device set up to get the back and forth word for word. You may or may not have had a call from a pollster and then contrived a humorous account of how the alleged call might've transpired.

[Agschmid]

86. Well at least now she knows for next time...

[cui bono]

90. to have you on ignore before posting an OP...

[Agschmid]

93. That's fine.

I don't use ignore I'm not into it.

Echo chambers suck just as much as loyalty oaths.

[fleur-de-lisa]

104. You win! eom

[Agschmid]

115. Hopefully they got a good prize...

[BeanMusical]

215. Yes! An Hillary Voodoo Doll!

[Plucketeer]

106. Yeah

we'd hate to have to take her word for it!

[bullsnarfle]

99. Thanks Agschmid. I will have to remember

to call my mom a lying bee-yotch next time she updates me on a (non-verbatim, non-recorded) phone call she has with my sister in Alaska.

[Agschmid]

102. Except I didn't call the OP that anywhere...

But like I said we see/hear what we want to hear.

And your post proves it.

Nothing wrong with that its human nature but let's drop the front.

[CoffeeCat]

142. You're being ridiculous

To suggest that unless someone recalls a conversation word for word--then they have no idea what they heard--is beyond bizarre.

I know what I heard.

And you didn't hear the call at all. So, there's that.

[Agschmid]

144. I didn't hear it. And I haven't once called you a liar, you aren't.

I'm just repeating what you said, and getting this kind of response.

[CoffeeCat]

145. You are suggesting that

I am not reporting accurately what I heard during the push-poll call, because I was paraphrasing that conversation.

You even said, "We all hear what we want to hear." You suggested that it was like the game "telephone."

Are you now backing off from that statement?

[Agschmid]

146. No.

But none of those statements are calling you a "liar".

You aren't a liar.

But yes this is exactly like a game of telephone, one thing gets said and then gets repeated, or changed into what the next person wants to hear. It's human nature, plain and simple.

[aspirant]

162. So transparent

[BeanMusical]

217. And very obvious.

[zeemike]

250. And so educational

This sub thread could be used as a perfect example of derailing a topic...or much adieu about nothing.

[BeanMusical]

251. +1

[Agschmid]

263. Yup the topic was derailed.

Mosty by folks mocking me and calling me names... It's pretty spectacular.

I got accused of being a paid "think tank" member, I've been told I'm an idiot who needs to go back to school.

Class act folks.

[zeemike]

296. And that is clasic too.

When confronted play the victim.

But I don't mock you, I marvel at the skill with which you play the game.

[Bubzer]

300. And there's the implied "You didn't mean to say somthing untrue... but you still lied".

[CoffeeCat]

109. I was push polled about Elizabeth Edward's cancer (in Iowa during 2008 Dem Caucus campaign)

I mention this below, but I think it's worth noting that in 2007, I was also push polled in Iowa when the race between Clinton, Obama and Edwards was very tight.

I was asked if I thought that John Edwards would be an effective President, even though his wife had cancer.

I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Others in Iowa reported getting the same call. Politico reported about it and my experience was included in the article. The Politico link is broken but here is an article about those awful calls attempted to undermine John Edward's candidacy by using Elizabeth's cancer diagnosis.

http://www.pollster.com/blogs/about_those_ugly_iowa_calls.html (Article about the Iowa Edwards/cancer push polls)

Push polling (and even nasty push polling) isn't anything new. Some on this site are so taken aback at the mere suggestion that Hillary would dare use push polling.

As I stated in my post that is later in this thread, I've experienced many Iowa caucus cycles since the early 1980's. Many candidates, Democrat and Republican have trounced through our state. I've only experienced push polling in two campaign years; 2008 and today.

Both calls were offensive, lie-based assaults on Democratic candidates. The only common denominator in 2008 and 2016 is Hillary Clinton. Isn't that interesting?

[Agschmid]

112. Push polls suck, I agree.

If there was proof this was Hillary I'd be done, no more $$$ no more volunteer hours, nada.

There is a lot of dark money in politics and it's almost impossible to know who, how, and why this is happening.

Either way I'll be supporting Hillary or Bernie in the GE, who ever it is they have to get there first.

[CoffeeCat]

122. I'll just say this to you

What kind of proof are you seeking? Anything short of a personal confession from Hillary means that there is no proof. Which is absurd.

This nonsense was done in Iowa in 2007 against John Edwards with Elizabeth Edward's cancer diagnosis.

It is being done now against Bernie in 2016.

See the common denominator? See the ONLY common denominator?

Sometimes you don't have proof. But you do have reasoning.

I'm not here to convince anyone to not support Hillary or not volunteer for her. I'm just reporting about the call that I received last night. Interesting things happen in Iowa, in the run up to the caucuses, that's for sure.

[Bubzer]

301. Clearly anything not recorded doesn't count...

So, you know, most news, all news papers, scientific research and other scholarly articles. None of those count.

In essence, Agschmid is pushing the old "Pictures or it didn't happen!" meme.

[aspirant]

164. So gullible

[Punkingal]

127. "Isn't that interesting?"

But not at all surprising. i have zero doubt whose campaign it was (is) and it isn't MOM.

[JonLeibowitz]

257. Hi Coffeecat, here is a working Politico link

http://www.politico.com/blogs/ben-smith/2007/11/message-testing-in-iowa-elizabeth-edwards-health-004151

and:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/ben-smith/2007/11/iowa-push-poll-contd-004182

The Internet archive link for the first (the second one, with considerably less information, is not archived) is:

https://web.archive.org/web/20150911083232/http://www.politico.com/blogs/ben-smith/2007/11/message-testing-in-iowa-elizabeth-edwards-health-004151

[Conch]

132. Facts can be cites without quotes.

Uggs, even your understanding of semantics and rhetoric needs mending.

[Ed Suspicious]

59. We need to get the telemarketer on the line for his side of the story?

[Agschmid]

66. No.

But have at me, for essentially repeating what the OP said.

[cui bono]

71. That's not what you did. You said there were no facts. The OP stated the facts.

So are you calling the OP a liar? Saying s/he fabricated this incident?

.

[Agschmid]

76. The OP also said that she doesn't have the facts...

She said she paraphrased, she said the didn't record the call.

I don't need to accuse anyone of anything when it's freely admitted in the OP.

[greiner3]

103. "...freely admitted in the OP"

So then it follows when a poster admits something then they are admitting to things I will get hidden if I said what's on a lot of other posters here. Just sayin.

[aspirant]

166. So untrustworthy

[Agschmid]

185. I await the next adjective...

[Bluenorthwest]

274. You don't deserve any other adjectives.

I have a couple of choice verbs in mind however.

[Agschmid]

275. Yah I'm sure you do...

Have at me, this is apparently a school yard and some folks are here just to bully.

It's funny I though I moved past this when I came out in 7th grade but apparently not.

Not something I would do to you... But hey to each their own.

[Bluenorthwest]

283. You are the bully here. You are the one who claimed without any supporting evidence that the OP is

intentionally deceptive and devoid of fact. It's a baseless accusation that you have been unable to support with facts of your own.
You started this. You have yet to prove your assertion. Trying to paint yourself the victim is pitiful. You opened with a very strong insult to the OP, based on nothing but your desire to insult.

[Agschmid]

284. Yup... Me a bully. You nailed it.

Meanwhile I await any information showing that Clinton was behind this which was the OP's assertion.

Like I said have at me, you'll score some DU points I'm sure. Some high fives about how much of a "bully", "uneducated", "troll", "jumpy", "desperate", "paid shill", "paid troll", "Clinton HQ hack", "snake", a "Bush", "untrustworthy", "lying-beotch" I am.

Now do you need links to those? Or no?

Oh how could I forget "whiner"! That's was a good one from Logical.

I know I'm such a bully.

Meanwhile I've clearly stated over and over that CoffeeCat is NOT a liar... That my post was about the connection to the Clinton campaign... But no one seems to care and just would rather throw shit at me.

Have at it.

Enjoy, I can certainly take it.

[Jim Lane]

171. Classic fallacy of the excluded middle.

Either the call was recorded (and, presumably, the transcript notarized), or there were no facts.

This is one of the stupidest posts I've seen lately, and given what we've had to shovel through as the primaries heat up, that's saying a lot.

See, in real life (i.e., when not posting on a discussion board to try to denigrate anyone who disagrees with you), reasonable people frequently rely on information that's considered reasonably accurate even if something more accurate can be imagined. For example, the rules of evidence applied in court exclude many things that get posted online, but if there were a lawsuit over this issue, CoffeeCat would be competent to testify to the same effect as the OP, and the testimony would be admissible.

I started to elaborate on why "no facts" is not a sensible response to the OP, but I got bored. The Wikipedia article uses the term "false dilemma". Either you're genuinely interested in discussing the issues, in which case you'll go read that article and all its links, or you're a lying shill who's being paid by the Koch brothers to sow discord here.

[Agschmid]

186. This whole subthread proves my point.

People see/hear what they want too.

And apparently everyone thought I was calling the OP a liar, but I didn't and I'm not. That's not what my first post was about, just no one seems to care.

Again not shocked.

[Jim Lane]

199. I was addressing your actual post, which you now don't defend.

You complain that "apparently everyone thought I was calling the OP a liar...." Some responses did so. Mine didn't. Your first post was captioned, and I quote verbatim, "No facts of of {sic} any kind." My response was to point out why your phrase "No facts" was totally unjustified.

[Agschmid]

264. It's not unjustified at all, and again I certainly did not call the OP a liar.

Everyone just jumped to that conclusion.

There are no facts which identify who paid for or sent the call, none.

[Jim Lane]

266. There is evidence, whether you like it or not

"Absence of definitive proof that leaves no room whatsoever for any doubt" is not the same as "No facts".

CoffeeCat's report is evidence that the call was intended to help Clinton. That right there is a fact. It doesn't prove that the Clinton campaign paid for or sent the call, but it's a fact that can be cited in support of that conclusion. ("Clinton campaign" could be a directive from national headquarters, or it could be a local precinct chair who got a little overzealous.) It's also possible that one of her SuperPACs was behind it. It's also possible that the sponsor was some even more shadowy pro-Clinton entity that we don't know about. It's even possible that it was a false-flag operation by the Sanders campaign trying to make Clinton look bad. The facts reported by CoffeeCat (the substance of the call, even if not verbatim) don't definitely resolve these questions, but they do take it out of the realm of "No facts".

You say, "again I certainly did not call the OP a liar." And, again, I certainly didn't say that you called the OP a liar. I realize you find it easier to answer that charge than to address my actual argument, but in this context it's pretty obvious deflection.

[Agschmid]

267. Your argument is it could be anyone who sent the call.

We essentially agree here.

[Jim Lane]

297. No, I'm not agreeing with your connotation

Your phrase "could be anyone" seems to imply that all the possibilities are equally likely, in keeping with your original "no facts" position.

At one extreme is "we know this for sure." At the other extreme is "we have absolutely no idea." There are, however, quite a few points in between. That this was a pro-Clinton operation is far more likely than that it was Sandersite dirty tricks, which in turn is more likely than that it was aliens from the planet Zontar using advanced technology to hack into CoffeeCat's phone.

[Bubzer]

303. +1

Thank you for dismantling this pseudo-logic argument.

[Beartracks]

216. But you paraphrased, and summarized.

Thus there were no facts in your post.

================

[thereismore]

98. You know... for balance! Hehehehe. nt

[CoffeeCat]

117. What really matters here is REALITY on the ground in Iowa.

Myself and other Iowans, no doubt--got these calls.

And I will tell you one thing--nonsense like this does not work on Iowans. We reject it. It's offensive.

While we're doing practice caucus sessions in our neighborhoods, attending rallies, volunteering for the campaigns and just trying to make a solid decision about for whom to caucus--these little games are being played.

And push polls like that one--stick out. They are jarring. So, whoever is engaging in these types of tactics will be harmed. That's what is important.

While you're busy suggesting that I can't even recall basic information communicated to me in a telephone call that happened last night--I'll be over here snickering at the ass hat who used these bungling, obvious tactics on Iowans who are very astute when it comes to politics. They'll react to this. I guarantee it.

These calls may not get the media attention that the 2007 Iowa push polls that tried to sabotage John Edwards' campaign with Elizabeth's cancer diagnosis. However, Iowans will discuss these tactics. They'll be just as offended as I was. They'll know the dirty tricks that are being played and they won't like it.

That's the reality. That's what matters.

[Agschmid]

153. It is offensive. And the call was full of lies.

But again there is no proof who created the call, or why they did.

You may not being trying to say "Hillary did it"... But some folks on here jump to that conclusion, and it's not one based on facts or information.

So now we've got people saying "such a new low for her" and you don't even know it's her!

The GE is coming and no matter who our candidate is we are all going to have to work our asses off for them if they want to win. Revolution or not it's going to take ALOT of work, so startin rumors or baseless conjecture against a potential nominee does nothing but hurt the party.

It's fine, it is what it is, and it clearly is the agenda of some folks here (not you).

[aspirant]

169. So defensive

[BeanMusical]

220. And concerned.

[highprincipleswork]

28. You have a wonderful way with words! Amazing to not believe a story or register its simple meaning.

I would hate to live in such a state of affairs, Very unhappy people they must be, and kind of paranoid.

For me, I was laughing my ass off.

And I can't believe the tactics. Who else do you suppose commissioned the poll?

[hay rick]

229. I think this is a push post on your push poll.

Are you a Sanders supporter who lies about everything (press 1); a Sanders supporter who is confused about everything (press 2); or a Sanders supporter who is a confused liar (press 3).

Love the line about the razor banister and lemon juice.

[rhett o rick]

237. He had to rush his response to get the first response slot within 3 minutes. Not easy. nm

[Agschmid]

273. Go forbid someone respond first... And within 3 minutes!

The shock of it all!!!!

They must be a paid shill working at a think tank, there can be no other logical reason for this type of response. How could anyone who isn't be paid disagree with me?!?!?



Such a flawed accusation.

[Sunlei]

304. can you post the phone number from your caller id?

[m-lekktor]

5. what a strange response.

[NCTraveler]

6. Yep. nt.

[DefenseLawyer]

10. What facts were you hoping for? n/t

[jeff47]

17. Written proof

that Clinton herself ordered this poll, and supplied every single word to be said during the poll, and specifically directed that the OP be called.

Otherwise, it's a terrible right-wing attack.

(Btw, if someone does produce that proof, it is a terrible right-wing attack based on a forged document. And if Clinton then announces she indeed wrote the document, it becomes bold leadership)

[DefenseLawyer]

18. Your objection goes to the weight of the evidence not its admissibility n/t

[Agschmid]

23. Man... You beat me to it.

[artislife]

50. *chortle

This thread is fast becoming the most amusing since Chelsea said she really doesn't care about money.

[cui bono]

78. hee-hee

.

[Punkingal]

130. Are you kidding? Some wouldn't believe it if there was a video.

[JDPriestly]

187. It could have been one of her superpacs. Bernie doesn't have to worry about that kind of thing

because he is not encouraging superpacs.

Face it. First thing I noticed months ago when there was a discussion about Hillary's campaign expenditures here on DU was that she was spending an awful lot of money, a disproportionate amount of money on polls.

Enough is enough is enough.

To question the OP's report on the call is just beneath the level of discourse on DU. Just disgusting.

Of course, the OP is telling the truth.

Hillary is desperate. Her poll numbers are falling fast.

[Agschmid]

202. Again I did not once question the fact that the OP got the call, nor the content of the call.

I questioned he assumption of motive behind the call... But that's it.

[JDPriestly]

213. I've been push-polled. When you get push-polled, you know the motive behind the call.

I do not doubt the truth of the statement in the OP at all.

[Bluenorthwest]

286. But you did. You said 'No facts of any kind'. That means no facts, of any kind. That means no call

was made and the content is also without fact of any kind. That is very different from questioning the motive being assumed, it is saying very clearly 'No facts of any kind'. Not 'some facts' and not 'I think the OP is assuming things about the pollsters' but 'No facts, of any kind'.

Your assertion was that the OP had no facts at all. Of any kind. If that's not what you meant, just delete that assertion and say sorry, restate your profound concerns without the insults. It's easy to do.

The OP says 'I got this call' you say 'No facts of any kind'. It's that simple.

[Agschmid]

287. .

So I stand by what I said...

I'm not going to change my mind.

There were no facts of any kind that back up the claim that it was the Clinton Campaign.

... Should we keep going around and around?

We won't make any progress we are both dug in here.

Call it a double down, at this point it's like a twenty fifth down. Ugh.

I'm going to work now so I won't be around for a while, unlike what some people asserted in this subthread I don't work here, go figure.

[cali]

22. That comment makes no sense. The op

is simply recounting a phone call. If you don't believe the op, that's one thing, but your comment just doesn't make sense.

[Agschmid]

24. The OP themselves admits they don't remember parts of the call.

We all hear what we want to hear.

See the Nate Silver thread where Nate clearly stated Bernie is the only one to beat Trump... Oh wait... He didn't. But people certainly jump to the conclusion they want to hear don't they?

[cali]

36. No. The op said he/she paraphrased because they don't remember every word verbatim

That is not the same thing. And this op has nothing to do with some other thread.

[Agschmid]

38. So they don't remember every word verbatim, is different than they don't remember parts of the call?

Got it.

[CoffeeCat]

44. I remember the highlights, which I have written here

There is nothing that I wrote in my message here, that was not said.

Of course, I do not remember the call verbatim. I would need a recording device and would have to report every exact word.

I don't think that is needed.

I find it interesting that you are attempting to suggest that I am remembering things wrong. Or that I have filled in blanks, "We all hear what we want to hear."

Are you suggesting that this call is so egregious that there's so way that I could have heard what I'm reporting?

I know what I heard. I guess when these tactics are used--all you can do is deny and try to rip up the person reporting the call.

Revealing.

[Agschmid]

45. How am I "ripping you up"... You said you were paraphrasing.

I don't consider that "ripping someone up"...

[roguevalley]

83. I guess, OP that the readers of this list don't understand

the meaning of 'is'. I love you anyway, darling. I get them all the time, even some for Palin back in the day. I fucked them over too. The poor pollsters and I always commiserated about the idiocy of how they were phrased.

[ebayfool]

154. Geeze, you're getting the same push poll tactic used on you that the caller used on Bernie!

The second statement was very long (and I'm paraphrasing), "Bernie Sander's campaign is running on a singular issue, Wall Street. But being President is about more than one issue. Bernie Sanders has no foreign-policy experience and has never met with a world leader. He is incapable of handling the job of President. U.S. government officials have said that when Bernie Sanders has been in meetings where foreign policy was the issue, he was completely unable to grasp the issues; and he was way over his head and was unable to understand foreign policy."

Challenging experience
Insinuating diminished mental/intellectual capacity

Apparently tactics trickle down!

[progressoid]

96. Stop. Just stop.

Have you ever gotten a push poll? One doesn't have to have the words verbatim to get the gist.

Jeez.

[Agschmid]

100. Yes I've gotten them...

I lived in NH, and helped Sanders beat Tarrant (Nr. Push poll himself).

[Perogie]

210. WHERE ARE YOUR FACTS??

I think you are lying about getting a push poll because you didn't provide facts

[Agschmid]

265. So I never said the OP lied about getting the call.

I know it's convenient to think I did because it's "fun" to jump on the attack on me... But I didn't.

It didn't happen.

So....?

[aspirant]

172. So jumpy

[BeanMusical]

223. And desperate.

[randys1]

27. I am willing to bet a very large amount of money that the phrassing the OP used here

to describe that long push poll question attacking Bernie's foreign policy abilities, was not the way it was stated by the pollster.

I would be honestly interested to hear what was actually said by the polling person, but I suppose there is no way to find out.

Having said that, I am concerned that DWS is going to do something, or the party is going to do something related to Bernie, helping Hillary, delegates maybe, that will royally piss off Bernie supporters and then many of them wont vote.

If that happens, I will blame the DNC for not knowing their audience.

But OK, this is good

"I would rather be slid down a razor banister into a vat of lemon juice."

[Agschmid]

33. Too late. IMO.

[JimDandy]

194. Offer a $10,000 reward to the person who can produce the script

or a recording of the call. Add another $5,000 if they provide the name of the organization conducting the push poll. And the info must be submitted to a mainstream media outlet and posted on DU.

No need to bet...put your money where your doubts are.

[artislife]

31. But it was comedy gold!!

You have to follow CoffeeCat, this poster has been posting all along about Iowa. I found her to be one of the most enjoyable and informative reads on this board.

[Agschmid]

40. Your are correct it was comedy gold.

[hueymahl]

140. You are acting like a troll in this thread

You are better than that. At least I hope so.

[BeanMusical]

225. Not just in this thread.

[Agschmid]

278. Yup you caught me... I'm a long term troll.

Check out all my posts spewing personal insults in this thread... Oh wait... There are none.

My original point was there is nothing "no facts of any kind" to suggest this call was from Clinton HQ. And because of that one post I have been called almost everything in the book... Add troll to the list.

...

[Agschmid]

279. Do you suggest I let people mock me?

Just take it lying down?

So far I've been called most names in the book, now I can add "troll" to that list.

It is just the internet so I'll get through it but I wish people would stop pretending they are holier than thou... Let's cut the act.

[aspirant]

176. So comical

[CoffeeCat]

221. Thank you artislife!

That is very kind of you to say!

[Paka]

243. +100000

Her posts are always great.

[roguevalley]

81. COFFEECAT! YOU MY HERO! :D

[A Simple Game]

149. Thanks for the informative post. I'm sure you related the conversation to a very high degree of

accuracy.

The disruptive poster is just trying to make the thread so tedious to read that people won't get the main idea that their candidate is once again doing dirty campaigning. Don't let them bother you.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

128. So, a person can't relate their own experience

Since when is evidence is needed for that?

[Agschmid]

150. Nope...

Watch this thread... http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511031646

[Conch]

129. Like your post?

You assume without any knowledge that her experience was a lie.

You base this on less than would be necessary to create even a flimsy hypothesize because you know nothing of what went on.


Is that par for your course?

[Agschmid]

138. I didn't say it was a lie, she got the call.

[Conch]

143. I see the problem

You are confusing the word fact with quote.


No biggie, time to look those words up and carry on.

Cheers.

[yodermon]

204. my my, look at the big subthread you caught.

[Agschmid]

241. Yah go figure.

[roody]

205. Do you mean in the push poll?

[Fantastic Anarchist]

207. If you're talking about your own post, then I agree.

[Perogie]

208. Person is telling of their experience.

Last edited Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:44 PM - Edit history (1)

[Agschmid]

242. May I suggest you read the subthread...

At no point did I accuse the OP of lying I just think their conclusion was off base.

But hey thanks for the personal insult, it's pretty clear that's all you guys have.

[rhett o rick]

236. Wow a first reply in 3 minutes. But you don't get full credit because you hurried your response.

Fact is that H. Clinton amassed $50,000,000 in a very short time, mostly coming from banks and Wall Street. Fact, the Corp-Media favors her over Sanders. Not surprising. She is using Citizens United for all it's worth, again not surprising.

[Agschmid]

244. Rhett your "timed response thing" is pointless.

It's not hard to read something and reply within minutes.

I don't get your line of attack there?

[rhett o rick]

252. It's more than a coincidence that HRC supporters are often the very first to respond to

OPs like this. One has to watch the GD forum closely for new posts, refreshing at least every 30 seconds, and then when a pro-Sanders post is made, get a response written within the two minutes. I've seen one within one minute. I have heard that there are a number of similar tactics discussed in the Clinton off-site Think Tank. The first response slot seems to be very important. Tell me that you are not aware of the tactics discussed.

[JonLeibowitz]

259. Pretty quiet here. n/t

[Agschmid]

261. Yes because I was asleep... Sorry next time I'll do a better job from

At my off site think tank.

[JonLeibowitz]

302. They need to have you guys work shifts over there.

[Agschmid]

262. It's ridiculous that you think anyone who disagrees with you must be paid by the other campaign.

[Logical]

238. You whine.....a lot. nt

[Agschmid]

245. How is agreeing with the OP whining?

I'll tell you what happens a lot... I get called names. Over and over, down the whole subthread. It's a real class act around here.

[merrily]

288. HUH? The poster gave you all the facts of her phone conversation.

[Agschmid]

289. Jump on in.

[99th_Monkey]

3. LOL - Well done!! I bet that push-poller might reconsider who THEY are voting/caucusing for

after you cracked them up with your responses. Thanks for sharing.

GO BERNIE!!!!

[CoffeeCat]

11. My view was...

If you want to play these games, and be unprofessional and absurd--I'll meet you where you are.

Our dog had just recently run away and had been outside overnight (and we had no idea where she was) in -20 below temperatures.

I was in no mood for malarkey.

[Kentonio]

157. Did your dog come home?!

[CoffeeCat]

219. Yes! She is safe!

Thank you for asking.

She's warm, happy and we are enjoying every second with her!

Thank you for asking.

[tblue37]

193. Please tell us your dog came home safe and not harmed by the cold! nt

[nxylas]

136. Depends who he was caucusing for in the first place

The guy was probably just some poor schlub trying to make a buck. There's no reason to suppose that he supports Hillary just because he's paid to make phone calls on her behalf.

[Mnpaul]

214. That would be a delightful backfire

Push the push pollers into voting for Bernie. It seems to very effective in getting their attention.

[NCTraveler]

4. +1

That's how it's done.

[MissDeeds]

7. Great post, CoffeeCat

Best line of the day:

"He then asked if I would ever consider supporting Clinton in the Iowa caucuses. I said, "I would rather be slid down a razor banister into a vat of lemon juice."



K&R

[HassleCat]

29. The ham sandwich thing was not bad, either. (eom)

[closeupready]

54. +100. I bust out loud laughing at that part.

[HerbChestnut]

9. Kick for Creativity.

Love it.

[99Forever]

12. I'd wager big money that...

..that the jerk marked you down as "caucusing for Hillary" anyway. There is no lie or cheat that those people won't try.

[JTFrog]

15. And no conspiracy theory that some people won't drum up. n/t

[99Forever]

34. Proven liars lie.

That's a fact, not a theory. Conspiracy or otherwise.

[dsc]

75. I'll remember that when reading your posts

[JTFrog]

108. Well played. n/t

[demwing]

181. Yeah, conspiracy theories are for the deranged

Uhmm...what I meant to say was...oh nvrmnd...

[emulatorloo]

35. Or maybe he told his boss Karl Rove "mission accomplished"

Who knows, I tend to be skeptical of the origin of push-poll calls

[Voice for Peace]

14. Ahahahaahahaahaha most excellent

[alittlelark]

16. Good thing I wasn't drinking tea or water when I read this......

Wish I got those calls !!

[GreatGazoo]

19. Flocculent Whale poop is essential to life in the oceans!

Whale poop doesn't sink to the bottom of the ocean. Rather the fluffy plume floats at the surface.
...
While many mammals produce excrement in clumps, whale poop is more of a slurry. "Very liquidy, a flocculent plume," says whale expert Joe Roman at the University of Vermont. Flocculence is a state of fluffiness, akin to a tuft of wool.

http://www.livescience.com/8788-whale-poo-ocean-miracle-grow.html

Just sayin'

[SwampG8r]

61. Dolphins too? Or just whales?

No snark intended i spend a lot of time on the water and this is new info for me

[MADem]

135. This is the most useful post in the thread! I've learned something at DU!

That used to happen often, here. Now...not so much.

Thank you.

So, if she's 'lower than whale poop' she's on top of the heap...good to know!

[BeanMusical]

228. Not exactly.

floats at the surface

If she's lower than whale poop then she's under the heap.

[Uncle Joe]

25. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for sharing, CoffeeCat.

[GoneFishin]

26. Another tactic out of Karl Rove's playbook.

[SheilaT]

30. Thanks for that report.

I suspect that the person on the other end of the line had not been told who had commissioned the poll, although from the questions any reasonable person could guess.

And the person on the other end would have absolutely not incentive to change your answer from caucusing for Bernie to caucusing for Hillary. If pollsters do that, then polls are vastly more unreliable than any of us think.

[alittlelark]

74. He found a job.....

Hard these days unless u are in a Chinese speaking country...........

[Armstead]

32. LOL...I sure wouldn't want you to get mad at me

sliding down a bannister of razor blades...love it.

[emulatorloo]

37. You are funny as hell! Loved your responses.

[Funtatlaguy]

39. Razor bannister and lemon juice...

Omg...that is hilarious......
Hopefully, not naked, though. Don't think you could ever make pee pee painlessly again.

[CoffeeCat]

222. I can't argue with that!

These responses are hilarious.

The humor, sarcasm and witty responses on DU always impresses me--and is highly entertaining.

[dragonfly301]

41. Thank you for posting this

gives me some idea what I can expect in April when the circus comes to my state.

[polly7]

46. LOL, GREAT replies!

[SandersDem]

48. desperation

and the hill-bots responses, too funny.

Here's what struck me....the demographics of the person posting the OP. She should be right in HC's wheelhouse, but instead she is feeling the Bern!

What does HC do IF Bernie takes NH, IA, NV AND SC?

I think the DNC tries to pull some kind of stunt (like a draft Biden) that will absolutely blow up in DWS's face. That would be like setting off a nuke in our own Party. Besides, I don't think Biden will have any of that stuff.

[tblue37]

196. I suspect that Biden, at his age and after so many tragedies, is inclined not to

compromise in ways that he compromised to avoid alienated the wealthy and powerful while he still believed he had a good chance of being president someday.

After losing his son, he might also not want to give up precious time and energy to a grueling, spirit sapping campaign that he could instead devote to the people most precious to him.

Sure, he says he regrets deciding not to run, but I suspect that's just the habitual impulse of an old fighter who can't stop responding to the sound of the bell or an old warhorse that responds automatically to the drums and bugles and the shot of "Charge!"

When around certain situations and people, I get some of those regrets, too, about past activities I used to immerse myself in.

[SandersDem]

198. He also has been given a new mission

a gift from Obama in the SOTU, something he will be passionate and I hope effective doing and that is to help advocate and lead on a cure for cancer which is within reach.

[tblue37]

200. +1. nt

[Still In Wisconsin]

49. Next thing you know she will pose with a Hayden Fry cutout wearing a seed cap, next to a tractor.

[CoffeeCat]

224. I would pay to see Hillary in denim overalls!

Still in Wisconsin, I am impressed with your Iowa knowledge. Haden Fry!

Howdy neighbor.

We can share a crying towel as we discuss our crazy, Republican governors. Hehe

[Still In Wisconsin]

227. How could I forget Hayden Fry? He beat our butts for a couple of decades.

Truth be told, our entire football program's lineage runs through Iowa City. Barry Alvarez was Fry's LB coach, and brought our DC and TE coach with him. The rest is history.

As for our governors, I think Walker wins the crazy contest... but Ernst probably beats the soon to be ousted Ron Johnson in the Senate, so we'll call it even.

[bvf]

51. Well done!

To this day I'm amazed that anyone even conducts such "polls."

"Good evening, am I speaking to the idiot of the house?..."

[CoffeeCat]

113. LOL!!

That was my attitude when he launched into his statement about Bernie's foreign-policy credentials.

Just exactly how dumb do you think I am?

And how dumb are you?

But this guy was just doing his job. He was nice.

[stonecutter357]

52. whale poop floats.

Last edited Tue Jan 19, 2016, 04:19 PM - Edit history (1)

[truebluegreen]

107. "poop" Whale "poop" floats.

Kinda wrecks your whole snarky response when you misspell shit.

[stonecutter357]

179. thanks.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

249. Whale-Poop Find May Fetch Man $180,000

What's yellowish-gray, stinks to high heaven and is worth tens of thousands of dollars per pound?

Just ask Ken Wilman, whose dog Madge went nuts over a dirty old rock the pair found on a lonely, windswept beach near Morecambe, England. But it wasn't actually a rock: "When I picked it up and smelled it, I put it back down again, and I thought 'urgh,'"

"There are places in Europe that will buy it from you," Hill said. "They will age it, like a fine wine, and then test it for perfume. "How much it's worth will depend on how fresh it is, but it's potentially $180,000."

http://news.yahoo.com/whale-poop-may-fetch-man-180-000-172658141.html

[lark]

58. Partially with you.

I agree that this does sound like a push poll, and for shame Clinton campaign. I also agree that Bernie is the better candidate, much more aligned with "we the people".

However, do I agree that Clinton is the same as or worse than any of the Repugs, 100% ABSOLUTELY NOT!! I hope this was just rhetorical flourishes and that if Clinton is the general D nominee, you will hold your nose and vote for her. It's what Bernie would do, after all. Clinton certainly isn't perfect and is too entrenched in the $$ scene, however she's not batshit crazy and doesn't absolutely loathe all women (not their wives) like every one of the Repugs do. She's not anti-choice, not anti-healthcare, not anti-union and will tax the rich more rather than less, and the most important thing of all, she won't put Scalia/Alito/Thomas clones on the SCOTUS which is exactly who we'd get to replace Ginsberg if a Repug is nominated.

Don't sell out your country in search of the perfect, please. We can't afford 4 -8 years of constitution destruction.

[CoffeeCat]

60. I was push polled in 2007 too, in Iowa; Caller brought up Elizabeth Edward's cancer.

I was push polled in 2007 in Iowa, as well. The caller asked me if I thought that John Edwards would be able to be an effective President, given that his wife Elizabeth has cancer.

Yeah, that happened.

I emailed Politio about it, and I was included in an article about this push polling. I was quoted as saying that the call was, "Jarring". Many others reported that they got these calls in Iowa in 2007 (the 2008 Iowa caucuses were held Jan 3, 2008).

Here's a link to an article about this push polling call that attempted to use Elizabeth Edward's cancer to suggest that John Edwards would not make a good President.

http://www.pollster.com/blogs/about_those_ugly_iowa_calls.html <------- ( best article about these calls)

http://www.bleedingheartland.com/2007/11/13/open-thread-on-push-polls-and-message-testing/ <----(another article)

This is nothing new. So...those who are practically getting the vapors over this style of tactic, are ridiculous.

I'd also like to note that I've experienced several Iowa caucus cycles. I've been active in the campaigns and have volunteered in the caucuses since the early 1980's. I've been paying attention for decades.

2008 and this year are the only two years that I've been push polled in Iowa, in ways that were vicious and used lies.

Gee, who was the ONLY common denominator in these two years?

[PatrynXX]

62. Gosh bet you just made the Push Poller switch :)

Humor kills fear every time. I wish I had my humor back. It comes and goes right now. When it's around it's rather good

I just read over on Politico on how Trump wins and it's a strange one but it speaks volumes of what Hillary is missing ..... And what anyone who argued against the Republicans assertion that Obama only won because he was black. So if Donald wins because a Majority of Blacks voted for him where does if Hillary is Female and the majority of women must vote for her has she figured this out yet?? Never assume.

[Bjornsdotter]

63. When I was polled....

....sometime in late November, I said I was voting for Bernie and they hung up. Not a clue if they were polling for Republicans or Democrats.

[cui bono]

64. I JUST heard Thom Hartmann read the "slid down a razor banister" line!!!

I only heard that part, starting with "would you consider voting for Hillary". I finished the last bite of my cereal and turned to my laptop and opened this OP and saw it was the one he was just reading!

Good job.

I guess she will never learn. It's her tactics that are one of her biggest problems. People don't want or like that. I could NEVER support someone like that. Next thing she will have them calling and telling people to be sure to go caucus and give the date AFTER the caucus. Yes, she would go that low.

.

[Casandia]

67. I KNOW!!!

I just read this comment from CoffeCat to my husband while Thom is on TV, and 'voila'!! Thom read it right after me.
Congrats Coffee Cat!

[chervilant]

118. When I watched the clip of HRC

snubbing Bernie's handshake after the last debate, I thought about how ungracious she seems to be as a general rule.

I hope I don't have to hold my nose in the GE. At this point, I believe the corporate megalomaniacs will have to pull something completely fraudulent to keep Bernie from becoming our nominee, and the President of this United States.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

79. Well done. K&R

[Duval]

85. Thom Hartmann just talked about this, CoffeeCat!

He laughed when he read parts of this, and I did, too! Such a great response, CC!! If I get such a call, I hope I can do at least 1/3 as well!

[CoffeeCat]

119. Wow, that is crazy!

I am usually pretty kind on the phone. Last night, I was full of adrenaline because our dog had gone missing for three days in -20 Iowa weather. I was running on 5 hours of sleep since last Saturday.

I was in no mood for political crapola.

[haikugal]

137. Has your dog come home?

[CoffeeCat]

147. YES!

We found her yesterday. After three days of frantic searching.

So grateful!

[haikugal]

159. Very good news!

Nothing worse!! Whew!!

[Fumesucker]

182. I'm glad you got your doggie back

He typed with a dog warming his lap...

[CoffeeCat]

226. Awwwww

So sweet that your dog sits with you while you're on the computer.

Dogs are just the best!

[Duval]

168. Good grief! And yet you were able to access your humor, which is remarkable in itself.

And I see your dog came home. Yayyy! I was wondering about that, too. Oh, I sent your OP to my sisters, with the subject, "You Just Have to Read This", and told them you were on DU. Hope that's ok.

[CoffeeCat]

188. Sure

Democrats and dogs--some nice things we have in common.

[Faux pas]

87. Kickin' with gusto!

[hootinholler]

88. Are you now or have you ever been a bubblehead?

I got my fish

[oberliner]

95. How is there such hatred for Hillary Clinton on a Democratic message board?

Vicious attacks on Hillary Clinton ought not to be what Democratic Underground is about.

[thereismore]

101. People tend to speak freely here... until they get tombstoned, that is. nt

[ieoeja]

110. Maybe because the Clintons built their national reputation using vicious attacks against Democrats?

They were just horrible in 1992. They pretty much ignored the incumbent President, and spent the election saying they would be better at controlling the out of control Democrats in the legislature. As founding members of the DLC, they convinced other politicians to run as local, conservative Democrats against national, liberal Democrats.

Democrats had dominated the House as well as State legislatures for decades before the Clintons came along and gutted the party. Democratic Party membership was much greater than that of the Republican Party. The Republican Party has not grown, but the Democratic Party has shrunk to match.

[oberliner]

131. She heaped quite a bit of praise on Obama at the last debate

For what that is worth.

[Duval]

177. The Democratic Party has not only shrunk since the DLC, it has leaned to the right.

Bernie is helping us take our party back where it used to be. And your point was well taken, leoeja. Thank you.

[chervilant]

121. Did you see HRC

snub Bernie's handshake after the last debate? What does this say about her?

I don't see any of this OP as a "vicious attack" of HRC. I believe that some of her supporters will have to suck it up and admit that many Democrats do not support her. Add to that the growing number of independents and Republicans who are feeling the Bern, and I see a sea change in our political landscape next year.

[oberliner]

125. "a lying, warmongering personal masseuse for Wall Street psychos."

That seems like a pretty vicious attack (even if you agree with it).

In any case, I do understand that not everyone loves her - but this sort of thing seems a bit extreme to me.

Generally speaking, Hilary has spoken pretty positively about Bernie, and Bernie has spoken pretty positively about Hilary.

There have been some snubs here and there, but this is a political campaign so a bit of that is to be expected.

[chervilant]

160. Okay.

I have to say that the multiple examples of HRC's deceit are an issue for me. And, she DID vote for the illegal invasion of Iraq, so I can see why some people are calling her a warmonger.

Most importantly, I am distressed by her unarguable ties with Wall Street and the big banks. I don't see how she can work for income equality and repealing Citizens United if she "owes" these uber wealthy donors a quid pro quo.

As I've said before, I WILL vote for her, if she becomes our nominee. At present, I think that's a BIG if.

[CoffeeCat]

134. I am reporting about a phone call that I receive in Iowa

That is not attacking Hillary Clinton. That is reporting my experience.

I didn't appreciate the phone call or the tactics. And I'm free to express my opinion when a Clinton-campaign flunky calls me on my cell phone.

Some of you act like you're going to pass out because I get a nasty push-poll call. You're so outraged that I'm reporting what happened.

Where is your outrage for your candidate's lies and underhanded tactics?

Hillary-fan logic:
--Iowan reporting on phone call = Vicious attacker and simpleton who can't recall the conversation verbatim
--Hillary who communicates lies to Iowans with dirty campaign tactics = The best person to run our country!

[oberliner]

141. Your comments to the person on the phone were vicious attacks on Hillary, no?

Your remarks about her such as calling her "a lying, warmongering personal masseuse for Wall Street psychos" are what I meant.

Personally, I think push polls are an unfortunate reality of politics. They stink but I don't necessarily hold them against the candidates who in some cases don't even know they are being made on their behalf.

[DFW]

211. Reporting on a phone call is absolutely not an attack

"a lying, warmongering personal masseuse for Wall Street psychos" seems to come a little closer, though.

I haven't definitively decided yet, and have already caught some flak, albeit mild and not nasty, from at least one Hillary supporter for not joining their bandwagon (not yet decided, means NOT YET DECIDED). But even so, where I HAVE posted when a criticism of Bernie was over the top, so was that one of Hillary. My first Democratic Convention was when JFK was nominated in 1960. Since that time, until this campaign, I haven't heard that kind of stuff flung at a Democratic contender by one of our own (possible exception--George Wallace before he left the party, but that's not the kind of company we want to keep anyway, right?). It does nothing but feed the Republican trove of verbal ammo, and these days, comments like that are just about their speed. I would hope it doesn't become ours.

[Paka]

246. I for one appreciate this report.

You simply reported your experience and to equate that as an attack is in itself an attack.

[jeff47]

139. Because most Democrats care more about a person's record than the letter after their name. (nt)

[musiclawyer]

178. How ?

Because she's uber establishment , beholden to to the bankers and the war machine who lies to the progressive base, a large part of the party, to its face. People don't like being lied to. My 20 year old son told me unsolicited that HRC is funny. I asked why. He said to give him half hour and he could print out her being on both sides of every big national issue since he's been alive. People are sick of politics as usual. Fed up. Disgusted. HRC represents the old school politics --revolting to the youngsters and the older base that wanted change in '08, i.e., Bankers in jail. Out of the Midfle East, ect. HRC represents not even change along the margins like Obama. She literally wants no change. That's why the mocking on social media re " no we can't, "after the last debate. That's how one foments hate in 2016. This is not 1996 when the voters were spoon fed national media junk news about how so and so wants to be POTUS and all people cared about was relating. to the candidate. Wanting to be POTUS nowadays better be about something , not just wanting to be POTUS

[tazkcmo]

285. Partly because of push polls as described.

Also lies, spontaneous evolving, hypocrisy, conservative/Third Way platform.

[thereismore]

97. Vat of lemon juice! LOL Right on! nt

[progressoid]

105. Well at least you lightened up some poor guy's day.

I guessing he gets a lot of angry responses and hangups during the day. Kind of a crappy way to make a buck.

[MisterP]

114. man, if you can get her backers' hired pollsters laughing that's a bad sign for her

[Babel_17]

116. K&R: You know you made a spot-on post when ...

K&R You know you made a spot-on post when people see a need to obfuscate the facts of the matter. Congratulations on saying your piece, I salute you.

Salute!

[chervilant]

123. Lower than whale poop...

I'm glad Thom read your OP. There are a lot of us feeling the Bern!

[winter is coming]

124. What a dumb poll. You don't even have to know anything about the candidates

to realize it's a push poll.

[shenmue]

126. Stay classy!

[INdemo]

148. Are sure you weren't talking to a Hillary

Supporter from DU?

[amuse bouche]

155. I truly hate to see Dems be so nasty about the candidate that is not their

first choice. It's such a turn off, I can't read the rest of their post

All I see is 'poo..poo..poo'

[draa]

161. Great story and exactly how many of us feel.

[blackspade]

163. I was LOLing too.

[pa28]

165. That's low but they WILL go lower. Remember the voter suppression robocalls from 2008?

Group with Clinton Ties Behind Dubious Robocalls

"Hello. This is Lamont Williams. In the next few days, you will receive a voter registration packet in the mail. All you need to do is fill it out, sign it, date and return the application. Then you will be able to vote and make your voice heard. Please return your registration form when it arrives. Thank you."

..................

This sounds like a classic example of voter suppression — sowing confusion in order to drive down turn-out. The calls seemed to be aimed at African-American communities, places where Illinois Sen. Barack Obama is expected to run well ahead of New York Sen. Hillary Clinton.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90114863

Glad to hear Hartmann talked about your story today. These tactics are going to be exposed and it's going to backfire.

[retrowire]

254. wow i learn something new everyday. nt

[Vinca]

167. Thanks for this story. I'm all alone and laughing out loud.

As a NH resident, I can appreciate the "poll." Just think. In a few short days the phone will be silent and we won't hear from them again for another 4 years.

[snagglepuss]

173. "I would rather be slid down a razor banister into a vat of lemon juice."

Thanks I needed that.

[WillyT]

174. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You For That !!!

[ViseGrip]

175. best post of the day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JimDandy]

189. What an appalling push poll!!

It's probably being pushed from the 'Campaign of Lies'.

[historylovr]

190. I was push-polled last week.

I'm afraid I wasn't that creative, but I did laugh at the obviousness of it.

[beemer27]

195. You are a quick thinker.

I hope that the paid "poller" feels so ashamed of what he is doing that he finds an honest job.

[Enthusiast]

197. That is the funniest fucking thing I have read this week!

[Duppers]

234. Same here!

[olegramps]

201. I can't help from wondering if anyone can veify that the received the same call.

[emsimon33]

203. If the nominee, she can not win the election

To too many Democrats she is at least a "meh" and at worst the Devil incarnate. To Republicans, whom she will energize to come out and vote, she is simply the Devil incarnate.

That the status quo will do everything they can to keep their power through her is laughable. Either it will be Bernie or a Republican. If a Republican or Hillary. then Wall Street and the billionaires win. No wonder they will do anything they can to make that our choice.

[Jack Rabbit]

206. CoffeeCat, I really appreciate your Midwestern wit

My mother was from Nebraska. She could be very good when she got going.

[RiverLover]

218. +1!!! Thanks for those laughs Coffee Cat! Much appreciated!

That was just awesome.

[BeanMusical]

230. Kick and R

[Paka]

231. Love it.

I too am here laughing so hard I can barely type.

[Duppers]

235. Coffee Cat you are a scream!

And a jewel! Love you!

[senz]

239. LOL CoffeeCat, you are a trip!

Love it, love it, love it.

But how sucky that Hillary push-poll.

Hope it costs her.

[marlakay]

247. I canvassed with a lady who has sister middle age in Iowa

She went there in june and saw Bernie, even got to shake his hand.

She said sister and all her middle age friends voting for Bernie.

[Renew Deal]

248. If the call went the way you say it did, it would qualify as a push poll.

It is possible the caller didn't know the term.

[Betty Karlson]

255. Thanks for sharing.

As for Hillary sinking: she is repeating the same mistakes she made eight years ago. She is incorrigeable and hasn't learned anything. That is why she will lose.

Her one big issue is ambition: a gender-specific presidency and it must be hers. She'll say anything to achieve it. And that is what sinks her: voters prefer authenticity, prefer someone who can be trusted to act on his / her words. Clinton just phrases whatever will cover her actions according to polls and focus groups.

She is a follower, not a leader. She has experience, but bad judgement.

[sammythecat]

256. I like you

You like Bernie, you can't stand Hillary, and you made me laugh.

[Autumn]

258. "I would rather be slid down a razor banister into a vat of lemon juice."

The truth don't get no better than that.

[Proserpina]

260. Love your story

but I think whale poo actually floats:

Actual whale poop floats though with a fatty substance called ambergris, a rare substance that has been highly valued for thousands of years as an ingredient in perfume and pharmaceuticals. Ambergris originates in the intestines of male sperm whales after they dine on squid, whose hard, pointy beaks abrade the whales' innards. Scientists believe that the whales protect themselves by secreting a fatty substance in their intestines to surround the beaks. Eventually the animals cast out a huge lump, up to hundreds of pounds at a time.

But don't refer to it as "whale vomit"; scientists postulate that whales do not expel ambergris through their mouths. No one has ever seen a sperm whale excrete ambergris, although sperm whale expert Hal Whitehead of Dalhousie University in Halifax, Nova Scotia, admits that it is assumed the voiding takes place as fecal excretion, because when first cast out, he says, "Well, it smells more like the back end than the front."

Viscous, black, stinky blocks of freshly expelled ambergris float on the ocean's surface. Sun, air and salt water oxidize the mass, and water continually evaporates. It hardens, breaks into smaller chunks and eventually becomes grey and waxy, embedded with small black squid beaks. The weathered chunks exude a sweet, earthy aroma likened to tobacco, pine or mulch. The quality—and value—of any given chunk depend on how much time it had spent floating or otherwise aging, says expert ambergris broker Bernard Perrin, because "it ages like fine wine."

For thousands of years this sea treasure has been highly prized. Middle Easterners historically powdered and ingested it to increase strength and virility, combat heart and brain ailments, or to spice food and drink. The Chinese called it "dragon's spittle fragrance." Ancient Egyptians burned it as incense. A British medical treatise from the Middle Ages informs readers that ambergris can banish headaches, colds and epilepsy, among other ailments. And the Portuguese took over the Maldives in the sixteenth century in part to gain access to the island's rich bounty of the redolent stuff.

The Arabic anbar refers to this very whale-based substance and is the root of the word amber. Centuries ago the French employed amber gris and amber jaune (gray amber and yellow amber) to distinguish between animal-based ambergris and what today has become the standard meaning: the golden-hued vegetal resin.


Like other animal-based perfume components (such as musk) ambergris has a scent all its own—derived from its chemical component ambrein—that it imparts to popular perfumes such as Chanel No. 5. It also enriches the other olfactory notes of a perfume, much as salt enhances flavors and spices, and, most importantly, it prolongs a perfume's other scents. As odor chemist George Preti of the Monell Chemical Senses Center in Philadelphia explains, ambergris molecules are lipophilic (fat-loving), as are perfume molecules, but the ambergris molecules are larger and heavier. "The odor molecules have a high affinity for the other lipophilic molecules, so they stay associated with the ambergris molecules and don't go into the vapor phase all at once," Preti says.


American perfume companies no longer mix ambergris into their fragrances, most likely because of confusing legalities surrounding its sale here. Internationally, however, the trade is legal and Perrin has no problem finding French perfume companies to buy his stock. "We also sell it to a royal family in the Middle East and they use it as an aphrodisiac. Apparently they take some milk, some honey, and grind up small quantities of the amber and put that in as well," he says.

Many aspects of ambergris remain a mystery. Why is ambergris more commonly found in the southern hemisphere, though sperm whales range all the world's seas? Why is it only sperm whales—and particularly male sperm whales—that create it? How did ancient Middle Easterners decide to start using it for medicine, or decide that "eau de whale" would be a compelling fragrance?


Some, but not all, scent qualities of ambergris have been synthesized, so the original remains valuable. With sperm whale numbers down from the 1.1 million estimated prior to whaling to approximately 350,000 today, less ambergris floats on the seas. Still, Whitehead says the population is slowly recovering, and even though most findings turn out to be rocks or wax or other ocean detritus, beachcombers and fishermen continue to scour the sands and waves in hope of stumbling across a weathered chunk of this sea gold.

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080105065411AAftqbQ

[Sunlei]

290. your caller ID should have the phone number called from, I'd like to search the number.

Foreign policy experience is one of the top reasons I wish Mrs. Clinton and Senator Sanders would team-up. They would both be stronger as a team. Yin & Yang Team is powerful.

[merrily]

291. LOL! You seem to have gotten some heads to exploding.

[Le Taz Hot]

292. DEFINITELY in the running for Best Thread of the Year

[Bubzer]

294. Oh goodness...that was too much fun to read. Thanks for that!

"I would rather be slid down a razor banister into a vat of lemon juice."