My brother challenged my lack of faith today...

[pizzadave]

So my brother and family came over for dinner tonight and we had a lovely time. Ultimately the after dinner conversation turned to politics...and then my lack of faith. It's almost like he wants to challenge me in front of his wife to show how 'stupid' I am. When he asked me why I don't believe I simply responded with my stock answer..."I just need some proof and you got me."

He responds with a question about my 'faith in gravity'. I said yes to that and noted some Newtonian Law of Gravity that's been around for a couple centuries with most humans buying into that one. I also picked up my computer mouse and dropped it for more 'visual proof.' "What do you have, I asked?"

There is a college degree that required some critical thinking skills in his head, but why is this so hard to grasp for so many????

Did I represent The Cause adequately or do I need to arm myself with more accurate statistics?

dave

[yortsed snacilbuper]

1. When I told my sister I didn't believe in god,

she started screaming and yelling!

[rexcat]

11. All of my family and in-laws have a problem with my lack of faith...

sometimes there is nothing you can do about it. I don't talk to my one sister at all and I don't bring religion up with my other siblings but they do on occasion. Then all bets are off. As far as my wife's family they are really conservative catholics. Just recently my father-in-law told my wife that if he had known that I was an atheist when we were married he would have told her that she could not marry me. My wife knew of my beliefs at the time as did the preist that married us. She got a chuckle out of that one!

The preist was somewhat of a rebel. I had some very interesting discussion with him. He has been the only preist I really liked.

[dimbear]

13. In the good old days she could have had you stoned to death. But don't assume

there's anything unfair about the old ways. There would have to be two witnesses.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

2. It's almost impossible to argue rational logic

with someone who is basically being irrational and illogical. Magical thinking is really hard to overcome, and no amount of "debate" will convince your brother otherwise.

When I run into situations like this (which are rare because I'm fully closeted), I usually ask for the proof they used to come to the conclusion that a deity exists. That proof usually consists of "warm and fuzzies", "other ways of knowing", and other completely irrational and illogical "evidence".

[sakabatou]

6. It's called foundational bias. Many religious people have this.

[cynatnite]

3. My sister asked "What happens if you die and you're in hell? What then?"

I told her "Oops. my bad."

[Angry Dragon]

4. Ask your sister why would you want to believe in a god

that would send a person to hell just because you did not love them.

[DavidDvorkin]

5. Ask her what happens if she dies and finds herself in Hell because

her religion got it turned around.

Or because the universe is controlled by a bunch of gods with completely different ideas of good and evil than hers.

[sakabatou]

7. I'd shoot back, "But if you don't support Quetzalcoatl and end up in Shebulba, then what?"

[pizzadave]

8. or this...

..."I don't believe in hell, either."

Although yours is a more clever response.

[marginlized]

9. "What happens if you die and you're in hell? What then?"

The doesn't make you spiritual, it just makes you a coward.

[Curmudgeoness]

10. I absolutely will not get caught up in this discussion....

In your situation, my stock answer is "I just don't believe, and I can't force myself to believe". That really is the truth, and it is the end of discussion. I don't try to convert them, or make them do an "oh wow, you are right, you make sense" experience. They can try to figure out why I came to where I am if they choose. Really, why bother?

[Lars39]

12. He's being disrespectful to you in your own home.

You don't have to defend your lack of faith to him.

[iris27]

14. Sounds good to me. Nothing you say will convince them, of course, but just having good responses

to what they so smugly believe are "gotcha" questions is enough.

I've gotten the gravity thing before, and simply said that I don't need "faith" in gravity - stuff falls to the ground when I drop it, and I don't spontaneously float off into the stratosphere. If those things suddenly started happening, I would be seriously doubting the idea of gravity.

As for where the critical thinking skills go, most educated believers are great at compartmentalizing - putting their faith in a black box labeled DO NOT QUESTION. Depending on the degree earned, that's much easier for some folks than others. Engineering, comp sci, english, history - for many majors like these, someone can take one ethics course and have their philosophy requirement satisfied (so, they get zero formal instruction about fallacies/logic/argumentation). And then nothing else they come across in their studies is really going to bring up any challenges to their faith.

[SwissTony]

17. When I get the gravity "bit"

I suggest they take a walk off the top of a tall building. The number of takers so far is a non-negative integer less than one.

[Joseph8th]

15. I like it!

... gravity is so obviously... er... OBVIOUS! It really lends itself to demonstration of facts.

It's tricky biz, but I usually go the way of other posters here. My whole objective as an atheist is to avoid ever ever ever ever ever having to get in another theological debate in my natural life. Hence I usually state firmly that I really just don't ever think about god or the possible existence of god, at all. I just fell into atheism, natural-like. If they want to continue the conversation, I reassert my original position more clearly (i.e., forcefully): I will NOT engage in ANY theological debate with ANYONE. Period.

Usually does the trick.

[SwissTony]

19. My JW sister and BIL used to "trick" me into religious debates

For example, my BIL once started a discussiuon about cricket. Which surprised me as he is not a cricket fan but he knew I was/am. Soon it morphed into a discussion about God (surprise, surprise). But I developed a few discussion stoppers. When the discussion got onto evolution, I'd ask a question such as "What are hox genes?" Evolution is just a theory? So is gravity. Take a walk off a tall building. Second law of thermodynamics? How many laws are there? What are they? End of discussion. Every time.

I also liked to take them to task about their circular reasoning. Why do you believe in God? Because of the bible! But how can you believe in the bible? God tells us to! Why do you accept this logic? If an eight year old offered similar logic, you'd smile and pat him on the head.

[arcane1]

16. Nice. I tend to usually say "I haven't found a good reason to believe that"

They are welcome to try to provide me with one, but I like to avoid having to justify my non-belief, whenever possible. Let them justify belief if they must

[MrModerate]

18. I don't have intensely religous relatives (atheists for 4 generations or thereabouts) . . .

But I've found the statement "I'm not a relgious person" tends to end conversations on the topic. It's definitive without being especially confrontatory.

[JNelson6563]

20. I use a similar tactic

Religion is such a personal issue, wouldn't you agree? *warm smile*

That's usually all it takes.

Julie

[MrModerate]

21. And then they get to pretend to themselves . . .

That you worship Cthulhu or Zoroaster or someone.

[OriginalGeek]

22. That's my only problem with "I'm not religious"

I've found when I say that they automatically assume "Oh ok, he believes in God but he's just not found the right church yet..." and I do not want people thinking I believe in god. I want them to know, if they were rude enough to ask about such a personal thing in the first place, that I absolutely do not believe in any gods unless and until they can provide some good reason to.

[MrModerate]

24. I decided some time ago . . .

That I had better things to do than trying to convince the majority of my fellow Americans how foolish they were to believe in god(s). "I'm not religious" shuts down those conversations I don't want to have before anyone says something provocative.

[AlbertCat]

23. "I'm not religious"

I usually say "I'm free of ancient superstition.... and it feels great! You should try it. You act like you do most of your waking life, as you go about your daily tasks."

[stone space]

25. I just tell people that I don't believe in a God or Gods.

It's just a belief. Not something that I need to prove or give evidence for.

It's not like I've ever claimed to be in possession of a proof or something.

And it doesn't bother me if they disagree.