Atheist Ireland Rebukes PZ Myers

[Goblinmonger]

Last edited Fri Apr 10, 2015, 10:07 AM - Edit history (1)

April 7, 2015
Posted by Jack Vance at 5:07 PM

Atheist Ireland issued a statement today announcing that they are "publicly dissociating" themselves from "the hurtful and dehumanising, hateful and violent, unjust and defamatory rhetoric" of PZ Myers, author of the Pharyngula blog. They explain that the last straw was a combination of Myers' recent comments in which he described Ayaan Hirsi Ali as "happily exploiting atrocities" and dismissively referred to the chair of Atheist Ireland, Michael Nugent, as "the Irish wanker." The statement calls upon "all ethical organisations and individuals to consider how you can help to reverse his harmful impact on both individuals and the atheist movement generally."

Most of those involved in the atheist blogosphere are aware that something like this has been coming for some time. Nugent has repeatedly and publicly taken Myers to task for the sort of thing detailed in this statement. What makes this different is that the statement of public dissociation appears to be coming from the organization rather than just Nugent (i.e., it was signed by the Executive Committee).

It will be interesting to see what - if anything - happens next. Many of Myers' supporters have been publicly accusing Nugent of having some sort of vendetta against him for some time. I imagine it would be fairly easy for Myers to adopt this interpretation of events and to dismiss Nugent as some sort of high-profile troll. And yet, Myers has surprised some of us before. I suspect he's capable of behaving decently when he wants to do so.

And what of us? Many of us have already dissociated ourselves with Myers, some by simply no longer visiting his blog and others by issuing statements of our own. Will we now consider how we might help to reverse the impact of Myers' behavior? I'm still not completely sure what that would look like, but I'm open to suggestions. At the same time, I'd hate to see us get so bogged down in unproductive rifts that we lose sight of what is truly important.

http://www.atheistrev.com/2015/04/atheist-ireland-rebukes-pz-myers.html

http://atheist.ie/2015/04/atheist-ireland-dissociates-from-pz-myers/

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As would be expected, many liberal believers on DU reacted as would be expected at such news:

You'll undoubtedly be able to read their orgastic comments elsewhere.

As for here with an adult discussion, this, to me, seems like a personal pissing match. I would think someone from Ireland would have more of a sense of humor (or is it "humour&quot at being called an Irish wanker by an American. Oh, well, some people are humorless (I might make a comment about some other forum on DU right here, but I'll just sweep that under the rug for now).

This atheist doesn't feel this is such a big deal. Neither one is my leader or pope.

[beam me up scottie]

1. That's exactly what it is.

And by airing their dirty laundry on the web they're feeding the anti-atheist trolls.

Stupid.

When I see atheists kissing PZ's ring I'll be upset.

[trotsky]

2. No big deal indeed.

Some people disagreeing. Though I know there are some who so very desperately want to believe this is a "schism" in the "religion" of atheism.

Side note: I wasn't aware ol' PZ was engaging in such name-calling. What's going on with him?

[haikugal]

5. That's what I thought, what's up with PZ?

It's an opportunity for some, I guess.

[onager]

8. It all started about 6 months ago.

And I'm not about to re-hash the whole thing here. If you want to know more (yes, that's a "Starship Troopers" reference!) you can find the whole story by searching. I've been following the blow-up off and on.

Shortest version I can manage:

1. Comments on Nugent's blog are mostly unmoderated and he doesn't ban people very often. Among the people posting there are some members of the board, The SlymePit.

2. Because of that - in a tweet, Myers accused Nugent of harboring "rapists, misogynists and harassers" in his blog Comments.

3. Nugent asked for an apology. Myers refused.

This part is strictly IMO - Myers went right off the rails with that accusation about Nugent's blog. As he did earlier when he pretty much called Michael Shermer a "rapist" on his own blog. (ETA - that's a whole other long story, also avaliable by searching).

Rape is a damned serious crime and a serious accusation to be levelled at anyone. If true, the rapist needs to be in jail. If untrue, it can destroy a reputation - at least. Rape is not a charge that should be decided in a Trial By Internet. And it shouldn't be tossed around as a casual insult.

[Act_of_Reparation]

10. I actually think the case against Shermer is pretty solid.

But that aside, I think Myers' reaction to Nugent's commenters can be chalked up to troll fatigue. I imagine I'd be pretty fucking testy if I had Slymepitters fucking with me and my friends day in and day out.

And, for as much as I value a free marketplace of ideas, I have never much cared for comments sections on blogs or news outlets. I don't think publishers should suffer any compunction to provide assholes with a soapbox from which to spew their shit.

Now, Myers could have privately messaged Nugent and said something to effect of, "Hey, there are some really awful people using your popularity to springboard their bullshit into the public discourse. Would you consider moderating them?" And I would agree that probably would have been the best way to go about it.

[onager]

22. Myers has his own Troll Brigade.

His Commentariat, the famous Horde. Some of whom are just nasty, and others who come across as frankly unhinged. At least to the casual reader like myself.

Their language-policing is often hilarious and bites them in the ass. I've seen threads where people were bludgeoned for being "ABLEIST." Then a few minutes later, the Horde is calling somebody a "crazy deranged fuckwit." Or words to that effect.

One of the funniest incidents happened when the Horde was pontificating on biology. Someone dropped in who said he was a working biologist, and tried to correct some of the mistakes they were posting.

He was viciously attacked with the usual boilerplate: "white privileged cis-het misogynist argle-bargle, you don't know SHIT about biology etc. etc."

The poster turned out to be not only a working biologist and expert in his field. But a co-worker and close friend of none other than PZ Myers.

I think the Brits call that an "own goal..."

[Goblinmonger]

23. Yeah, from what I've read of PZ's Horde

they would get along fine with some of the posters on DU. I'm sure you all know who I'm talking about.

[Act_of_Reparation]

26. No argument here.

I've had mostly positive experiences interacting with others on FtB, but like I said, I think the blogosphere would be better served without comments sections. While good in theory, they ultimately wind up encouraging fanboys and fangirls to fight among themselves for the attention of their hero, or simply serving as a springboard for idiots and trolls who would otherwise attract no audience whatsoever.

[LostOne4Ever]

3. While some people might lap this up, I think most of us in A&A agree with Ollie Williams:

Last edited Thu Apr 9, 2015, 10:19 PM - Edit history (1)

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Thanks Ollie! Now how about tonight's weather forcast?

[/font]

[beam me up scottie]

6. LMAO!

It's gon' rain here tonight, with possible tornadoes. Guess who won't be praying to Jeebus?

[bvf]

4. Somebody help me out here.

Is Nugent the New Atheist, or is it Myers?

Kidding aside, you're right--it's a pissing match. I've seen it described as "drama" elsewhere.

[Act_of_Reparation]

11. It's hard to tell, isn't it?

If it is vitriol that has Nugent's knickers in a twist and not, as he claims, a personal beef with Myers, why in the fuck is he wasting his time with a Go-Bots blogger when Optimus Prime himself--DAWKINS!N!!N!1!--lives but a few hundred miles to the south?

Because it's personal. That would be my guess.

[AtheistCrusader]

16. One shall stand... and one shall fall....

*commercial break*

[AtheistCrusader]

15. Unclear. But I think Nugent should address the accusation, not get all huffy about being offended.

Since when did evidence and reasoned argument go out the window?

I've only looked at two articles about this, but the sense I get thus far is, he lady doth protest too much, methinks.

[Warpy]

7. It seems like Nugent thinks there is a dungheap that needs climbing

and PZ Myers is farther up the track than he is. Oh well. I suppose that since we atheists have about as much in common as people with brown eyes all do, there are a few hierarchical thinkers out there who think we not only need leaders, we have them.

This kerfluffle deserves only a mild eyeroll.

[edhopper]

9. in a thousand years

People will be blowing each other up over this.

Oh wait, that's religion.

[AlbertCat]

12. I'm still not completely sure what that would look like, but I'm open to suggestions.

How about stop pretending atheism is some kind of "movement" and Myers is some kind of apostle.

[trotsky]

13. But that's the only model most believers can understand.

Atheism is a "religion," and vocal atheists are its "leaders" or "preachers."

[Act_of_Reparation]

14. If fawning over public figures like DAWSKINS!@!!!!! or Myers makes atheism a religion...

...then several tens of millions of people belong to the First Church of TMZ.

[AtheistCrusader]

17. It's a desperate 'how do I frame you as the thing you attack all the time' sort of countermeasure.

Not very effective either.

[trotsky]

20. Remarkably ironic, too, that comparing atheism to religion...

is intended as an insult. LOL

[AtheistCrusader]

21. "Your thing is shit" "Oh yeah? Well, well, your thing is just as shitty as my thing!"

[skepticscott]

19. And stop acting like PZ Myers' personal gripes

have fuck-all to do with the question of whether any gods exist, which is the real issue, but one the religionistas and self-loathing atheists know they can't engage on successfully.

[bvf]

24. Agreed.

Indoctrination leads to only being capable of looking at issues in terms used in said indoctrination.

Some can't help it, I'm sure. Others are trolls.

Both seem to have some representation on DU, but there's a clear majority in one direction.

ETA: I personally don't pay much attention to stuff like this usually, and only jumped in here out of interest in comparing viewpoints.

[Rob H.]

18. "You'll undoubtedly be able to read their orgastic comments elsewhere."

You sure called that one.

[mr blur]

25. "sweep that under the rug for now"? Reminds me of a great toon I saw recently,

Oh, and thanks for spelling "humour" properly

Fortunately, atheism doesn't have, or need, leaders. You can't expect people who live to serve to understand that, though.