During my morning commute...

[NeoGreen]

... I found myself ruminating on the commonly used, and genuinely inoffensive, atheist meme of "Don't Believe in God? You Are Not Alone." and what the next generation of similar messaging would look like.

This rumination was sparked by the recent observations on the momentum of the, albeit diverse but none the less coherent, Nones and the apparent subconscious panic by the theocratic privileged masses and the need to press the intellectual melee forward.

I contemplated possible next generation expressions such as:
"Tired of Their God-full Tirades? You Are Not Alone, Come Join Us and Experience a Rational Reality"

In an attempt to meld and conflate the idea that the Nones are already here, they are welcoming, and that everyone is a rationalist when evaluating someone else's irrational or over the top beliefs.

Granted, it is a bit wordy, but I feel that we need to continuously develop the message.
Anybody have similar sentiments and/or suggestions for improvement?

[trotsky]

1. "genuinely inoffensive"?

I'll have you know there are people right here on DU who think that message is over-the-top in-your-face proselytization for atheism, no different than JWs banging on your door! Bottom line is, to some folks, the only good atheist is a silent atheist. And a better atheist is one who participates in a religion anyway.

I do like your suggested expression though, kind of fills out more of the details as to what turns off people from religion. I'm also a fan of "You can be good without gods." - it flies directly in the face of the hateful bigotry so many religious people have, and is a positive message.

[AtheistCrusader]

5. It's really not better than grabbing some believer, and breaking them on the wheel over it.

[NeoGreen]

10. One of the ideas that I'd like to explore...

...based on the "we/you can be good without gods", is a conflation of that and "we are all atheists", since no one believes in the divinity of all the past, or even present, gods that have been or are proffered.

Something along the line of "you can be good without god and look how good you can be (have been?) without any of these gods".

Build on existing themes/memes.

[trotsky]

12. Oh that doesn't sit well either.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1218186955

[jeff47]

2. I think any attempt to force a "community" is misguided

be it a religious community (everyone goes to the same church) or an atheist community (everyone goes to the same _____).

We don't need to come together regularly to experience rational reality.

[Curmudgeoness]

3. Although I agree the we should not proselytize,

I do think that there is good reason to let people know that they are not alone. I also realize that many people find a social structure in their church that they miss when they abandon that church. Not all of us miss the community of a church, but many people do. Since we are all not alike and many do enjoy the socialization, having a place for like-minded people to come together would help many people. Just like church functions are not always focused on religion, atheist gatherings do not have to focus on rational reality. Hell, it could just be hikes in the woods or picnics at the beach.

[jeff47]

4. The statement in the OP implied

a church-like situation to me, where you could go to some regular meeting to get a church-like environment.

"You are not alone" is different than "you are not alone, come over here and do what we do".

If you want to get together for hikes in the woods, get together with people who want hikes in the woods. There's no need for atheism or theism to be involved.

[Curmudgeoness]

6. Some people do enjoy getting together though.

Our local (not local enough for me to go and I probably wouldn't anyways) UU "church" is a good example of something that would work for atheists. They do not have "services" like a church, but they do have a building to use for meetings and other get-togethers. They do meet every Sunday morning, but they also have many other events there.....music, dances, lectures, plays, etc. I have no idea what their Sunday morning involves, since I have never gone, but I did go to a Sunday morning hike when they did that instead of having the weekly meeting.

Some people would not be interested in meeting other atheists, or having events that are aimed at atheists, but there are a lot of people who would enjoy it. I don't think that we should pooh-pooh the idea of having some sort of organization for atheists. I can speak only for myself, but I did not think at all about atheism until I joined the A&A group. Discussions with other atheists has made me more aware of my place in the world and why it is important to stand up against religion. And that is a good thing.

[jeff47]

15. I have concerns about anyone attempting to create an atheist "denomination"

in that they will be friction similar to religious denominations - our group is the "real" atheists, you other people are not.

There isn't one way to be an atheist, and any sort of formal "atheists do this" undermines that. If you want to discuss philosophy, discuss philosophy. There's no reason to make it an atheist discussion of philosophy.

[AlbertCat]

8. There's nothing wrong with aiding like-minded people getting together.

I mean, are dog clubs or book clubs "religious" in nature?

There's no need to be like church. It'd be fun just to get together and laugh at the latest religious film! Or have Project Runway parties...

[jeff47]

16. There is when it implies others are doing it wrong.

It'd be fun just to get together and laugh at the latest religious film! Or have Project Runway parties

And that would be an utterly horrible time for me. Yet if we start having pseudo-official "atheists meetings", that opens up a rift similar to the rift between religious denominations.

[AlbertCat]

19. And that would be an utterly horrible time for me.

Then don't come.

"Noah" was HYSTERICAL! But not as funny as the laugh riot of the '50s "The Ten Commandments"! And all those "I died and went to heaven and because I'm a kid, it must be true" films.... too ridiculously funny!

[jeff47]

20. Yeah, need to get back to excluding people again. (nt)

[AlbertCat]

21. What ARE you talking about?

I'm just talking about having a screening party or something.... not a friggin' national committee.


Yes yes... you are SO FAIR and SO INCLUSIVE! We're all impressed.

No one's excluding you. Come on over if you like. But it was YOU who excluded yourself.

[jeff47]

22. "Come on over and beat yourself in the head with a hammer. You don't want to?"

"Well it's your fault you are excluding yourself!!"

This thread is about starting a nationwide or nearly nationwide campaign. Not you holding a personal party.

[NeoGreen]

9. My intent does not include any form of...

...organized church-like environment, or any type of expected unity of thought, action or presentation.

I was merely contemplating what the next generation of meme will look like and if anyone here had any interesting ideas or suggestions.

In the you tube video of Steve Martin's "Atheist's Don't Have No Songs", he begins with a statement that religious people have a great repository of music, and that Atheists have "nothing, until now". Then he goes on to perform a really wonderful song.

?rel=0

Well, by analogy (and I would accept a criticism that it is a poor analogy) I would like to create and develop the next set of atheist songs in light or Mr. Martin's statement and subsequent performance.

I would like to speculate and build the next generation of quips/memes/retorts that Atheists may have in their verbal arsenal so we may continually wage a successful intellectual battle against anti-reason, anti-progress and all things based on "faith".

"You Are Not Alone", was a fantastic start, but it is not all it could be, and I wanted to discuss what could be next.

NG

[jeff47]

17. Why does there need to be a next based around atheism?

When you create a group like this, you invite a distinction between that group and others. There becomes a "right" way and a "wrong" way to be an atheist. You create friction similar to the friction between protestant denominations.

If you want to get together and talk about philosophy, create a group to get together and talk about philosophy. Why does it have to be a group of atheists getting together to talk about philosophy?

[Lordquinton]

23. You do realize that your claims are approaching what you're arguing against

Some people want to get together and talk about things with the guarantee that no one is a believer, some people want nothing to do with organization around belief status. Neither way is wrong. You are sounding like you think that organizing anything around atheism is the "wrong way" to be an atheist.

There is no comparison between atheists getting together and anything religious, we don't have that "God says you're doing it wrong" aspect, we'd just invite and if you say no, then we might feel that you're missing out, but you're always welcome. No damnation to an eternity of torture, just "Ok, see you around"

Wouldn't, by your definition, getting together to talk about philosophy lead to the same problems? that the group would be excluding people who are philosophical, but choosing to not discuss philosophy? leading to conclusions that would cause friction between them and other philosophy groups?

[LostOne4Ever]

7. Interesting

[font size=4 color=teal face=Georiga]I think something along the lines of:[/font]

Not believing in God does not make you evil, immoral, or worthless. It is our actions, not our beliefs, that make us moral and know that you have worth and value as a human being and most importantly are not alone in your disbelief.

[font size=4 color=teal face=Georiga]Long but it hits all the right points imho.

I recently came across an article on TVTropes called the anti-nihilist. I really liked that description (though I am not too crazy about the name anti-nihilist) as it mirrored many of my own views. I would not be opposed to advertisements promoting such views.

Maybe something like I posted in religion a little while back:[/font]

If we want even a small measure of justice we have to sacrifice for it. We have to be just in our own actions, and we cannot afford to be apathetic to the injustice going on around us. It requires backbreaking work, endless effort, an indomitable mentality, and accepting the fact that we will fail and to keep going anyways.

[font size=4 color=teal face=Georiga]Or maybe something shorter along the lines of:[/font]

There is no inherent meaning or reason to life, except for that to which we give it. And if we want justice it is up to us to bring it about ourselves; for there are no gods to bring it about for us!

[NeoGreen]

11. Just the kind of discussion...

...and thought process I was anticipating and hoping for.

Let's have a dialog on what we can build from our point of view and understanding beyond just "you are not alone".

Collectively, we can advance the expression and understanding and hopefully the acceptance of Atheism.

While I would generally argue that Atheism is a concept that is truly an entirely internal process, but it does not have to be exclusively and internally expressed. Much of my internal process of understanding of Atheism was aided by the external expressions of concepts/argument/questions from other atheists.

We should acknowledge and continue that process as best we can.

NG

[edhopper]

13. I can think of more than one DUer

who will argue that religious people are every bit as rational as non-believers and it is highly offensive to claim otherwise.

[trotsky]

14. But of course.

It's completely rational to believe that demons are real and can possess people. As long as you first accept that demons are real and can possess people. What's the problem?

[edhopper]

18. And witches

The logic is inescapable.