Atheists & Agnostics
Related: About this forumOur dog died yesterday.
Family is still recovering, and it's going to hurt for a while, but I just wanted to take a moment to say, how incredibly grateful I am, that it is possible to raise a smart, creative, and loving child, without resorting to made up doggy-angel bullshit or anything like that. My 5 year old was sad, cried a lot, like any empathetic, normally functioning human is wont to do, but otherwise took it better than I did. He wanted to be in the room, at the end. He asked great questions about what was going to happen, and whether he would feel the euthanasia, and why it was important to help him go...
I know, deep down, having grown up always having been an atheist, that it is not surprising to be a moral, caring, loving individual, without the trappings and accoutrements of religion, but man, it wears on you. Decades of explaining myself to religious people who cannot conceive of morality without an objective, supreme law-giver... it sows doubts. Plants worries. Always looking over my shoulder, wondering, am I doing it right as a parent... even when we show studies that secular kids distinguish better between real, and fantasy, I get shit thrown in my face how 'that's not necessarily better, because imagination and creativity', and more doubts.. am I stifling my kids creativity now, or ruining fantasy and his childhood...?
No more. Fuck them.
My kid is fine. He is loving, warm, shows empathy for other kids, doesn't distinguish between 'us' and 'them', for any of the race, gender, ability, political or any other of the stupid boxes we assign ourselves to identify as belonging to. He's confident in himself, sees the good in himself, asks the most amazing, insightful questions...
I'll never doubt again. I will go on telling my son the truth, about anything he asks. I could not be more proud, as a parent, of the person he is growing into. Someday he will surpass me in *everything*, and I'm totally cool with that. He doesn't need lies and bullshit to cope with life. He needs the truth. He thrives on the truth.
I feel sorry for all the kids out there, whose parents don't value the truth, over made up manufactured lies of comfort. The parents that tell their kids, or allow some lying self-righteous charlatan in a stupid white sheet or black suit and a stupid white collar to lie to them, that they are sinners from birth, incomplete, unworthy without the mercy of some illusory externality that was allegedly tortured to death before they were born for the crime of an alleged sin committed by others before they were born...
so sad. Too many kids, too many lies sown.
The truth is so much easier, and it works. I know it works, and I will not doubt it again.
-Voltairine de Cleyre (1880)
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)I hope hosts will make an exception and accept my reply and wishes of peace for you.
It sounds like you turned a very sad event into a moment of teaching, we're all pretty much here on borrowed time and out pets come and go more quickly than our own species and give us moments to reflect.
Take care.
I hope we are friends in our love of animals.
marym625
(17,997 posts)of your family member. . I'm positive your child is better for you explaining without sugar coating with fantasy.
hollysmom
(5,946 posts)there are the good things that the dog brings to your life and the things,you did to make your dog so happy while he was alive.
I remember my Catholic brothers thought I did not mourn my parents death, but instead, I was there when they were sick or needed something, my brothers only came for dinner, expecting my old parents to do everything. People get so stupidly hung up on death. There is point where things people and animals are not enjoying life anymore, then it is time to let go. The est we can do is make life worth living as long as we can.
It makes me think of that picture of the man with his dog in the water so the dog could sleep without arthritis pain.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Our beloved German Shepard died on Halloween when I was 7 and we grieved as your family is grieving. My mom took it the worst but she had the presence of mind to use it as a life lesson and I will always be grateful to her for that.
Good on you, AC.
Leith
(7,809 posts)Our pets are members of our families just like humans. They have their own quirks, personalities, and idiosyncrasies. You love them and they love you.
I lost my two cats recently. One to diabetes and complications, the other to cancer. It tore my heart out each time. Best to you and your family.
It sounds like you have your beliefs figured out. I describe myself as an agnostic but, for all intents and purposes, I'm atheist. I fully understand the difficulties that religious people try to put on us. My favorite is when they question how a person who doesn't believe in their deity of choice can be a moral person. If their faith in an invisible sky daddy is the only thing keeping them from robbing, raping, and killing indiscriminately, let's hear it for their deity! People with strong internal morality don't need the fear of post death punishment to keep us from committing crimes on the world. Your son sounds wonderful.
Note to the religious & spiritual: I am not condemning your choices in life nor do I look down on them. It's wonderful that people have the freedom to arrive at the solutions that work for them. The issue that I have is when the more zealous insist that I follow their solutions. That just would not work out.
All the best to you in all things, AtheistCrusader.
defacto7
(13,485 posts)onager
(9,356 posts)In your memories.
After reading your post, I realized I don't remember much about how my first dog died. But I sure remember a lot about how she lived.
ErikJ
(6,335 posts)My renter 'co-opted' him about 5 yrs ago and they were inseperable. He was very vibrant and healthy and then suddenly started losing weight and passed away. He is still having a hard time accepting it. Very sad. When people tell me that faith in god keeps society moral, I tell them that Japan has a tiny fraction the crime that the US does and they are basically "godless' and only 1 out of 5000 prisoners in the US are atheists and 75% are Christian.
LostOne4Ever
(9,289 posts)[font style="font-family:papyrus,'Brush Script MT','Infindel B',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]And I want to say that I think you are doing right by your family and son. Keep telling your son the truth, keep proving the charlatans wrong.
In a way, I feel that the lies of an afterlife do far more harm, than whatever measure of "comfort" they provide. I think they sell false hope at the cost of closure.
When someone[/font]* [font style="font-family:papyrus,'Brush Script MT','Infindel B',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]we love dies, I feel pretty certain we will never see them again. If that is the case, we have not only a right, but almost a duty to grieve their loss in full, to release our sorrow, and come to terms with their passing in our own way.
They meant so much to us, who are they to take our grief away?
It should be raw. It should be real. That is what it means to have loved someone.
I think the lies of comfort rob us of those emotions. Not only that, those lies are not even really for our sake. They are more to make everyone around us feel better because they don't have to see us hurting. We earned that right to hurt, to mourn, and maybe even shed tears. Just because it is depressing to them does not give anyone a right to take that away.
And just because we are hurting, that does not mean we are broken. We don't need redeeming, we don't need saving, we have no sins to be forgiven. We are all human. We laugh, we cry, and we hurt. There is nothing wrong with that. Being human, or simply being born is not something anyone needs to be forgiven for.
All that we really need is the truth so that we can truly live the lives we have:
Unbroken and real.
May you and your family find your own peace [/font]
*Not just humans
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)And kudos for raising your son to be such an empathetic and caring person who can handle the truth without peppering it with bullshit. I have no doubt it will help him grow to be a smart and reasonable adult.
bvf
(6,604 posts)Always a difficult thing to go through, I know.
I'm glad to hear that the experience has heightened your confidence that you've raised (are raising) an inquisitive, self-confident little boy.
I trust you will see him grow into an independently minded adult, grateful for his ability to see the world without need of belief in bullshit.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)When we shed the superstitions and fairy tales a veil is lifted.
Religion says: console yourself, there will be another chance, another life. Two things are wrong with this. First, there is not a shred of evidence for it and, second, it is a sop, consciously intended to blunt our rage and regret, thus dehumanizing us. Our anger at death is precious, testifying to the value of life; our sorrow for family and friends testifies to our devotion.
http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/more/messerly20140120
trotsky
(49,533 posts)It is amazing how much of our hearts our pets are able to capture. Makes the time with them wonderful, but parting so difficult.
sinkingfeeling
(51,457 posts)in the future. Maybe one from a rescue or shelter?
Response to AtheistCrusader (Original post)
Pacifist Patriot This message was self-deleted by its author.
Neon Gods
(222 posts)We had to put our cat down a few years ago and we still miss him. Our kids and grandkids know there is no doggy or kitty heaven because there is no heaven, period. Our pets live on in our memories of the people who knew them and I can't think of a better place to go after death.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)but part of living in this particular universe. It's one of the many reasons to have a pet, really. I think it helps one deal with the death of close homo sapiens as well.
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)Pets mean so much to us, and bring so much into our lives, that it is hard to say goodbye.
It sounds like you are doing a fantastic job raising your son, and it is great to see them grow into caring, thoughtful human beings. Don't second guess yourself. Take it from one who was raised with fairy tales of heaven, it only gets in the way.
I don't suppose that I should include Rainbow Bridge here, huh?
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)...better than many humans if we're honest...and I think we have done a great service to your son, now and in the future. Honesty is the best policy, and there is nothing wrong with saying "I don't know" when you don't have the answer...
I too try and focus on celebrating the life the person/being lead, rather than on how sad I am that they're gone, because in the end the latter is almost purely selfish, and the former can make you smile forever...
Be well...
F4lconF16
(3,747 posts)It expresses what I think many of us have felt at one point or another. You are a good person, and a good parent. My sympathies for your loss--that's never easy.
"The truth is so much easier, and it works. I know it works, and I will not doubt it again."
This is my new sig line. Well said.
kdmorris
(5,649 posts)I mourn the fact that our fur-friends never live as long as we do. Your son sounds like an amazing human being as well! I do love not having to lie to them.
Cartoonist
(7,317 posts)I've been bitten five or six times during the course of my job, but I'll still hold out my hand for them to sniff, 'cause that's how they communicate.
You mention Original Sin. That's something that really needs discussion. What kind of an asshole religion burdens everyone with something they had nothing to do with? That is fucked up!
RebelOne
(30,947 posts)I'm sure many people here have lost their dogs, and it breaks my heart to know that there is no doggy heaven or afterlife for our pets.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)This was an amazingly kind response, and I appreciate it. (I hope no one minds a group 'thank you', to so many responses.)
So far, everything has returned to relative normal for us, which is good. I don't think it'll be long and we'll start hitting the local shelters and see if there are any rescues that will be a good fit for our family.
Thank you again!