It's going to get really ugly. I hate to see politicians crucified. Even Mormons.

[PassingFair]

It ALL sounds crazy to me.


http://production.sojo.net/blogs/2007/06/05/transcript-presidential-forum-faith-values-and-poverty

Remember the "Sojurners' forum on Faith, Values and Poverty".

I get a reflexive cringe just remembering it.


Look at the comments and see how playing into "faith"
works on the highly religious voter.
Look at all of the support for the christ-like John Edwards.
As long as he's saying
the right words, it doesn't matter what he DOES or what
he DID. Not much we can do about it except point it out.

[cleanhippie]

1. Meh. Politicians who pander with their religion deserve what they get.

A politicians religion (or lack of it) should merely be a footnote, IMO.

[PassingFair]

2. Obviously I think so too. They aren't talking to us.

The politicians who don't want to "pander" to it get dragged in,
because they will seem unChristian if they don't.

[cleanhippie]

3. Agreed. But again, they get what they deserve if they don't have the fortitude to stand up for what

is right.

Anyone who is so desperate to get an elected job that they will cave on a matter as personal as this, is not someone who can be trusted.

[PassingFair]

4. Are you talking specifically about Obama?

Under this kind of religious scrutiny, they will
all dance the Jesus Jig.

[cleanhippie]

5. No, not really.

I mean, I think he has done a better job than most of deflecting the issue, which is probably the best way to deal with it.

But since you bring him up, he has done some pandering to the religious crowd. The whole Rick Warren thing was nearly enough to make me not vote in 2008, for anyone, but I swallowed the bile that had risen up in my throat after watching that debacle, and did what was best for the country and voted for him.

Hopefully we will not see a repeat performance of that bullshit again this year.

[PassingFair]

10. We'll see it again if Newt has any say in it. n/t

[cleanhippie]

11. If Newt has any say, it will be full-on Theocracy time.

[PVnRT]

6. I really wonder if there will be a third-party challenge if Mittens gets the nod

There are a lot of fundies who simply WILL NOT vote for a Mormon, period.

[PassingFair]

9. Those same people would probably never vote for a black man, either.

I bet most of them will hold their noses and vote for Mitt,
but it won't be pretty.



Wonder how much its going to cost the RNC to get rid of Newt.

[libodem]

7. Even Mormons

We must be more used to them in the western united states.

Seems some don't even deem them Christians.

I believe they mean well but they truthfully believe they have the corner on the market of the only "true" religion.

That makes the rest of us 'gentiles' not fully acquainted with the gospel.
We'll just end up on a lower rung of heaven.
Only temple rite holders can enter the celestial kingdom with their family and go begat a new planet.

[PassingFair]

8. There are LOADS of people HERE that don't consider them Christians....

Check out this thread.

Most of them know NOTHING about Mormons, but
they are very opinionated about them not being
"Christians".


http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002244505

[libodem]

13. Checked it out

Took a while. You are right. Many don't think Mormon's believe in Jesus.

[PassingFair]

16. One is arguing that they're not Christians because they don't believe in the "holy trinity"....

[Goblinmonger]

22. Wow

there's a whole lot of fucking stupid in that thread.

[skepticscott]

12. No sympathy for Mormons AT ALL

they threw their lot in with the religious right on Prop 8, and they're on board with pretty much every other oppressive social policy of the religious right. They try to appear nice and friendly and open and accepting, but deep down they are not...at all.

[libodem]

14. They are very

Patriarchal. The man is the head of everything. They were secretly fighting the Equal Rights Amendment in the 80's, as well. They disfellowshiped that lovely Morman mom for exposing them.

[PassingFair]

17. Yeah, like that's so weird. Not like any of those other religions.

[PassingFair]

15. I have no sympathy for ANY of them.

I just don't like religious litmus tests in politics.

At. All.

[skepticscott]

20. In theory, no

but the rational litmus test to apply is not regarding someone's beliefs per se, but the likelihood that those beliefs will lead them to use the power of an elected office to (subtly or not so subtly) impose those beliefs on others who may not share them, and without a clear secular purpose.

[PassingFair]

21. Do you really think that Mormons are MORE likely impose their beliefs on others...

than any other religious persons?

Do you feel that way about Harry Reid?

Do you think that Mitt is more religiously dangerous to our secular
democracy than Bush was?

[skepticscott]

24. MORE likely than the dominant cast

of Protestant fundies? Maybe not. But tell me how Prop 8 was not a huge imposition of their religious beliefs on others. Or tell non-Mormons living in Utah that they haven't been imposed on.

And Harry Reid is a ball-less wonder. He's incapable of imposing anything on anyone.

[PassingFair]

25. The Catholix spend TONS of money on "marriage protection"....

The Roman Catholic Church,[47] as well as a Roman Catholic lay fraternal organization, the Knights of Columbus,[48] firmly supported the measure. The bishops of the California Catholic Conference released a statement supporting the proposition,[49] a position met with mixed reactions among church members, including clergy

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, whose members are commonly known as Mormons, also publicly supported the proposition. The First Presidency of the church announced its support for Proposition 8 in a letter intended to be read in every congregation in California. In this letter, church members were encouraged to "do all you can to support the proposed constitutional amendment by donating of your means and time."[52] Local church leaders set organizational and monetary goals for their membership—sometimes quite specific—to fulfill this call.[55][56] The response of church members to their leadership's appeals to donate money and volunteer time was very supportive,[57] such that Latter-day Saints provided a significant source for financial donations in support of the proposition, both inside and outside the State of California.[58] About 45% of out-of-state contributions to ProtectMarriage.com came from Utah, over three times more than any other state.[59] ProtectMarriage, the official proponents of Proposition 8, estimate that about half the donations they received came from Mormon sources, and that "eighty to ninety percent" of the early volunteers going door-to-door were LDS.[60] The The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints produced and broadcast to its congregations a program describing the support of the Proposition, and describing the timeline it proposes for what it describes as grassroots efforts to support the Proposition.[61]

Other religious organizations that supported Proposition 8 include the Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America,[62] Eastern Orthodox Church,[63] a group of Evangelical Christians led by Jim Garlow and Miles McPherson,[64] American Family Association, Focus on the Family[65] and the National Organization for Marriage.[66] Rick Warren, pastor of Saddleback Church, also endorsed the measure.[67]

[skepticscott]

27. You've answered your own question

But never forget that it's usually not their own forbearance that keeps religious fundamentalists from imposing everything they think they should on society as a whole. It's political expediency and the knowledge that courts will smack them down (and even that doesn't stop them nearly all of the time). If Mormons or other fundies had real power, without the restraint of secular laws, I guarantee you'd feel imposed on.

[onager]

18. FR is having a meltdown about Romney winning FL

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2840808/posts



They REALLY hate that guy! They're even attacking Faux News for pimping him as the Chosen One. A couple of posters who've had their rabies shots are trying to reason with them, but they're in full attack mode.

The FR gang wants Newt. And one poster helpfully suggested: "It's still not too late for Sarah Palin to get into this thing."

Oh please. PLEASE!

BTW, speaking of FR - thanks for the pic of RimJob and Little Awful Annie. I needed an appetite suppressant tonight.

[PassingFair]

19. I think even MENTIONING Mitt was a ban-able offense there.

They'll have to come around though, the alternative
is a BLACK MUSLIM.

[Goblinmonger]

23. Good. But, on another note about FR,

who had a trained chimp create the UI for that site? Are they ever going to enter the 90s and make it so that the forum over there is readable?

[onager]

26. Somebody tried one time...

And somebody here at DU helpfully posted a link to the FR thread.

A Freeper with web skills offered to re-design the site free of charge. Make it easier to read, navigate, make donations, etc. etc.

Whee-doggies! You'd have thought he had asked the Freepers to sell him their daughters. HUGE backlash. "No! We like it just the way it is, bla-bla-bla."

Finally, RimJob himself stepped in - no changes. No need for FR to be like those Commie Dem sites with their newfangled upchanges and re-dates and stuff.

Somebody on the DU thread posted something like: "Jesus. 'Fire bad! Cave good!'"

[PassingFair]

28. Update to this thread. I thought that the Mormons would be crucified in this race....

turns out that Catholics are getting outed on THEIR weird theology.

I ALMOST feel sorry for them.

[dimbear]

29. That's for the primary. Wait til Mitt gets the nod.

That's when Americans are going to get a boatload of info on the new Mormon version of Jesus.

If the DNC were wise, it would immediately send every American a copy of the Book of Mormon with the relevant passages underlined and printed in red. That would do it.

[iris27]

30. Kick.