Very Interesting!! "An Open Letter to Ben Affleck"

[SkyDaddy7]

A must read...I wish all my fellow Liberals spinning Sam & Bill's words would read this & take to heart!

[link:http://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2014/10/25/comment/an-open-letter-to-ben-affleck/|

[arcane1]

1. Kicking. She spells out the harsh truth as clearly as is possible, and it's undeniable.

"In the interest of being politically correct and ‘liberal’, we silence the voices of millions. I am turning to you because you were instrumental in starting this conversation. Those of us who want reform are muted by extremists, as well as the liberals who betray us in the name of multiculturalism."

Indeed.

[deucemagnet]

2. K&R

Everybody needs to read this.

[mr blur]

3. A must read, indeed.

But how can we ensure that the people who need to read this, do?

Let's hope they're watching.

[SkyDaddy7]

7. I know! I wanted to post it in GD...

But they would just take it down, right?

[rhett o rick]

16. I am not sure what they'd do but it wouldn't hurt. Go for it. nm

[trotsky]

4. Interesting? More like devastating...

I wish Affleck and his like-minded friends on DU would read (and understand) it.

[SkyDaddy7]

14. Yes, I agree! nt.

[onager]

5. Thanks!

[Bryce Butler]

6. Thanks for sharing

[SkyDaddy7]

13. You're Welcome.

[truebrit71]

8. An excellent piece...

...the final sentences really hit home...

[RussBLib]

9. as I recall

Maher and Harris did not say that "all Muslims do this" (meaning beheadings and the crazy shit).

No, it was Affleck who insisted that criticism of any is a criticism of all, and Reza Asshole echoed that.

It is not surprising to me that most moderate Muslims are rather afraid to voice modern opinions when you have such virulence and violence in the broader Muslim community.

I'm trying to think....what kinds of things happened in the Western/Christian world to start to erode the adherence to the literal interpretations of the Bible? Galileo? Science? Copernicus? The printing press? I presume that the relative free-flow of ideas in the Western world went a long way towards disseminating scientific ideas. We already have all of those scientific and skeptical ideas in today's marketplace, but they don't seem to be making many inroads in Islamic countries.

The "leaders" of the Islamic world avail themselves of all sorts of technology, and yet these archaic ideas persist. What a fucking tragedy for those somewhat enlightened individuals trapped inside that closed-off world.

[onager]

10. Well, one answer, I guess...

I'm trying to think....what kinds of things happened in the Western/Christian world to start to erode the adherence to the literal interpretations of the Bible?

One big thing was separation of church and state. Technically impossible in Islam according to some Muslims, since sharia law only has 2 sources - the Koran and the hadiths. The church IS the state and vice versa.

The new Egyptian Constitution - if it survives - shows one way to handle that problem. It guarantees freedom of religion, though Egypt is more than 95% Muslim.

Article 2 of the old Egyptian Constitution stated that Egypt was a Muslim nation and sharia law was the basis of its jurisprudence. So this should be a major improvement.

The bit about sharia law was an amendment, added fairly recently. In the 1970s-80s, many Egyptians went to work in Saudi Arabia. They came home infected with Saudi Arabia's extreme fundamentalist Wahhabi strain of Islam.

These were the same people who demanded the closing of nearly all Egypt's bars and belly-dancing clubs.* The bastards.

*Though Egypt still has an official Belly Dancers Union, believe it or not. When I lived there, the native Egyptian belly dancers were upset by foreign competition. Mostly belly-dancer troupes from Russia and Ukraine.

The President of the Belly Dancers Union went to the Egyptian Parliament and demanded that these culturally-appropriating foreign hussies be banned from working in Egypt. Parliament actually held hearings on the problem.

But the foreign belly-dancers showed up to testify at those hearings. And explained that when they toured Egypt, they hired and paid a LOT of Egyptians - costumers, hairdressers, musicians, drivers, security guards, etc.

When Parliament heard that, it threw the home team under the bus and decided foreign belly dancers were very welcome.

Two of Egypt's most famous belly dancers had names straight out of James Bond - Fifi Abdou and Pussy Samir. Whenever Egypt suffered a big disaster, both showed up to donate lavish sums of their own money to the afflicted. And both were always denounced for it by the IFIU - Islamic Fundamentalist Idiots Union.

[Curmudgeoness]

19. Onager...I always learn so much from your posts.

Thank you for adding interesting and vital history to threads.

[trotsky]

20. I'll second that! (And third and fourth it!)

onager's experiences living in some of the most prominent theocracies in the world (Saudi Arabia, the USA bible belt :-P) always makes for fascinating stories.

[onager]

25. Thanks, you two!

I do sometimes wonder if I'm being the most boring guest at the party. So it's good to know other people read that stuff.

You might be more careful about encouraging me, though...

[Brainstormy]

11. no, they didn't

You're right! the responses to Maher's and Harris's actual remarks have been disingenuous at best, downright fallacious at worst.

[SkyDaddy7]

15. Yes it has!

It really has shown what type of people Reza Aslan, Glen Greenwald & others really are. Cenk talked reall bad about Sam harris on his show but once in front of him all Cenk could say is "But some people could take what you are saying as racits or bigoted" Cenk like so many other Liberals had no intelligent argument in opposition to what sam was saying!

[rhett o rick]

17. I think it is political correctness. It can plague some liberals.

IMO a liberal should be able to have a dialog with opposing views that may seem bigoted or racist, as long as everyone is polite.

I think some liberals are so determined to be politically correct that they think they are required to shout "BIGOT" at the first hint of such.

I don't always agree with either Sam or Bill but they can provide thought provoking dialog.

And some people like to bully using self-righteousness as justification.

[SkyDaddy7]

22. I agree! nt.

[trotsky]

12. You recall correctly.

The same rhetorical trick is employed here on DU when a religious topic is brought up that some do not want to discuss.

Example:

Person 1: "Whoa, here's this story about a woman who killed her kids trying to give them an exorcism. How can we tell the difference between sincere religious beliefs and delusions?"

Person 2: "ZOMFG, I can't believe you just called all believers mentally ill insane murderers! You atheist bigot!"

*insert facepalm here*

[mr blur]

18. Hey, I saw that one!

Again and again and....

[edhopper]

21. My take on that exchange on Real Time

Affleck is religious. He says "I have my own spirituality, which is of Western Christian spirituality, that is very effective for me." So not a bible thumper or anything.
But I do think he came there pissed at Maher and Harris about their attacks on religion. I don't think he was just defending Islam, he was defending religion and trying to push back against them.
I think his anger got the better of him and made his argument weak, including making claims about Harris that wasn't true.

[trotsky]

23. Circling the wagons.

It's sad but we see this often. A believer (or wanna-be believer) would rather ally him- or herself with a rabid believer than a vocal atheist.

[edhopper]

24. Harris and Maher

are particularly strongly opposed to religion so his dander was up and he didn't address the issue at hand, Islamic fundamentalism. In stead he tried to belittle Harris, which didn't work.

I have even seen somewhere, non-believers go on the attack when religion is challenged. Perhaps you have too.

[trotsky]

26. Yes, perhaps.

Thus my "wanna-be" comment.