Depressing day at the park.

[AtheistCrusader]

Took my son to the park this morning, let him run off some energy before it got crazy hot out and nobody wanted to move any more.

Anyway, I guess we got to the park after early church service got out, and I heard a 5 year old little girl say the most depressing fucking thing:

"I want to go to heaven. I hope I die on the cross so I can go to heaven too"

(She was talking to her dad, who was standing by the play toy, studiously ignoring her on his smartphone.)


Whiskey
Tango
Foxtrot

A five year old.
Looking forward to a certain type of death in hopes of some BS made up post-death reward.

Awful.

[TreasonousBastard]

1. She's 5, reacting to something she just heard...

no doubt the crucifixion and ascendance. Little kids do that-- that's how they learn stuff, both good and bad.

She'll get over it.

[bvf]

2. The operative word here is "learn."

I hope you're right in saying she'll get over it. Some do, some don't, IMO.

[TreasonousBastard]

3. Kids have amazingly open minds, and believe in the Easter Bunny, too...

but grow out of it.

Yes, with constant reinforcement religion can become ingrained, but with most of us even if we continue to believe, it mellows out over time.

[Warren Stupidity]

8. why is it that they stop believing in the easter bunny?

Oh that's right, it is because rather early on they are given many social clues that this belief is nonsense. That was the wrong example.

"but with most of us even if we continue to believe, it mellows out over time." - your evidence for that assertion?

[TreasonousBastard]

9. Just about everyone I know...

it may be different in the Bible Belt, but places where I've lived religion is more of a social thing. Hardly anyone discusses doctrine.

[Warren Stupidity]

11. So basically your evidence is entirely

anecdotal.

[TreasonousBastard]

12. Sure. About the same as yours.

[Warren Stupidity]

18. well no, I'll go with the available demographic data, from pew for example,

all of which indicates that we live in one of the most religious developed countries on the planet and that something like 60% of adults consider themselves "very religious".

[AtheistCrusader]

14. My five year old doesn't believe in the easter bunny.

But even if he did, and even if that kid at the park did, will that kid reach 6-7-8-9 whatever age, and then have her parents pull her aside and explain that the EB isn't actually real? Most likely. Will she get that message about the magical zombie on the cross thing? Not likely at all.

[TreasonousBastard]

15. Not likely, but what's the harm?

Really.

She will grow up and be exposed to a lot of things. She might become a raving lunatic for or against religion, or just accept it as part of the background of her life.

[Arugula Latte]

17. In the past, not likely, but now it seems the Internet is a game-changer.

If you have some doubt about religious BS it is pretty easy to get the other side/s of the story on the web.

[DavidG_WI]

19. Most will ever grow out of it

As evidenced by the billions of religious adults.

[defacto7]

4. Will she?

I think that is an assumption that betrays fact. I remember many things from before 5 that had lasting psychological effects that lasted for years and through life, both good and bad. I have never forgotten what I was taught when I was 3, 4, 5 in Sunday school and many who don't remember their experiences or indoctrination at those ages are still affected in subtle ways. "She'll get over it" is a presumption that it doesn't matter what she was taught. She may be more likely to get over the effects of learning that death and torture is not only good but essential if her parent is wise to listen and take it seriously enough to undo the abuse. It doesn't seem to be so in this case. In fact evangelical parents tend to either brush it off or not undermine the teaching or teacher of the BS. God's will you know.

To me, if it's not corrected with love and concern, it's abuse by both the teachers and the parents.

She will remember it just like all of us remember everything we have ever heard or been taught. It may not be in immediate recall but it will be there. What effect it has in her life is yet to be seen, and you can't just wish that into the cornfield.

[TreasonousBastard]

5. You're making a lot of assumptiions here...

admittedly, just like I did.

My assumption was that she heard the death and resurrection stories and made her own connections based on her own limited knowledge. These connections should work themselves out as she gets older and she'll be OK. like most people, she'll either end up a largely decent Christian or she'll drop out of it.

You're assuming she's getting indoctrinated, which she is at some level, but there's no evidence that there was any attempt made to reinforce her limited understanding of the stories and drag her into the lunatic fringe of the religion.

Neither of us know the full story, and we're both just guessing-- my guess is just for a more positive outcome.

[defacto7]

6. Yes, I am the cynical one...

And of course we don't know the complete story. I think anytime we discuss unknown individuals on the Internet we are discussing the idea, the philosophical point it brings up and sometimes the psychological as well. In that respect, I just think it's a common thread that is not taken seriously enough. I get the opinion you think it's too serious and will just come out in the wash. I think that is too simple. There's the old adage, "kids are resilient". It's true... but it's just as much not true as it is true. In that case "resilient" cancels out and we have, "Kids are." They certainly are. And what we teach and what they hear doesn't just blow away. Again I'm discussing the idea that may and does affect a majority of children not the real person involved here.

[Warren Stupidity]

7. No actually for the most part she won't get over it.

She has been indoctrinated into the zombie death cult and if she is like 99% of the population she will never really think about or question any of the vile nonsense she has been taught to believe.

[trotsky]

10. She may get over it, she may not.

There are DUers who believe in hell.

[Warpy]

13. Well, she was FIVE

Kids that age know some pain but the pain of a vaccination is judged the same as the pain of traumatic amputation because they have no sense of proportion. They've got no clue about death except that an elderly relative went somewhere else and they can't see him/her any more. Their thinking is 100% magical.

The poor little thing wanted the park with a circus and unlimited ice cream and all the other wonderful things some batshit crazy fucker told them in Sunday school.

Martyrdom? Maybe it hurts like another shot but it doesn't hurt long and then they go to the kiddie park for eternity, which means they don't have to go home, ever.

[LostOne4Ever]

16. There is just something about religion that blinds one to how fucked up it really is

To reference another of your threads, believers see nothing wrong with the story about Noah. To them its just about animals, and they don't give the mass murder aspects a second thought.

Sodom and Gomorrah obviously had young children living there, but many believers don't even think about that. The people of Egypt did nothing wrong, but their first born child died because of the actions of their Pharaoh god making their Pharaoh stubborn.

How many times are the innocent punished in the bible for the sins of the guilty while the actual victimizer goes scott free? How many times are innocent people forced to suffer for arbitrary reasons? Children are killed by bears for making fun of a prophet being bald and the average believer does not blink an eye.

And then they teach their children these horrors while putting on cute faces on the characters!



There is cherry picking and then there is cherry picking. When 95% of the fruit is rotten....I think its time to get a better fruit rather than trying to dig out that 5% and acting like that was in any way a good fruit.