Hey Kids! We just got alert-nannied in our safe haven yet again.

[Warren Stupidity]

It is so wonderful to know that our friends are so very invested in our every utterance.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/123022163

OMFG connecting the RCC with its actual history of abuse?

[arcane1]

1. Wow, that got alerted on AND hidden, in the AA group?

That's some serious bullshit right there.

[LostOne4Ever]

2. Sad

If anywhere, the A/A forum should be the place people feel free to post criticism of religion without being misunderstood.

The post in question was a joke, but apparently we can't even post those now.

[Rob H.]

3. And here I was thinking

it's we atheists who are supposed to be humorless robots. Guess I was wrong about that.

[onager]

33. Hey! I just had my Humor Module upgraded!

Unfortunately I think they used some spare parts from a Liberal Xian bot. Suddenly I have no recall of anything that's happened since 1962.

[deucemagnet]

4. Sad.

Imagine being so bitter and full of impotent rage that you go into a forum that opposes your views in order to find something to be offended by, alert on it, and hope for a hide because fuck the atheists. That's one sad and spiteful person, right there. Sad and spiteful, but filled with the love of God, no doubt.

[pokerfan]

5. Oh well....

FFS... From the charter:

Although anyone is welcome to participate, the DU Atheists and Agnostics Group is a place where atheists and agnostics can engage in frank discussions about the effects of religion on politics, free of debate about the existence of a deity or deities. In this forum it is inappropriate to belittle those with religious beliefs or to engage in demeaning or hateful speech toward members of DU who may hold such beliefs. Those who do believe in a deity should be aware that the underlying assumption for discussions in this Group is that either "god" does not exist or that the existence of "god" is in doubt. If you are offended by such notions, you probably should not participate in this Group.

Please keep in mind, this group is a "safe-haven" for atheists and agnostics.

I guess someone got offended.

I find myself spending less and less time on DU these days and that's a shame.

[Curmudgeoness]

8. A few thugs will not keep me away from DU.

It really is only a few members who ruin it for everyone else. The bully in the playground is not going to chase me away.

[mr blur]

14. Well, no, but that is a disgrace!

There's a certain Group here that seems to lead a rather privileged existence.
I've just been out of DU for three weeks because members of that group decided that whatever I said should be alerted on. And they knew that a jury made up almost exclusively of American DU-ers would always have a fear of being seen to be anti-xian.
Well, I don't really give a fuck; I know the DU rules and the DU ethos and if I go against them I'll pay for it. Fair enough.

But if these whimpering jesus-freaks can no longer gets their thrills finding examples of atheists who don't lead perfect, blameless lives and have to go into a safe-haven to alert on a joke which wasn't even meant for them, then does that mean we can alert every time one of them gets orgasmic about torture, blood-drinking and crackers transforming into an excuse for flesh-eating because we find the site of them wallowing in it nauseating?

[Curmudgeoness]

23. Interesting thing popped into my head

and it never came to mind before. Maybe I should start trolling the religious safe havens looking for nasty comments and alert on them. You know, I never would have done that in the past, but what is good for the goose is good for the gander. At least, that is what I have heard.

You are right, it is a disgrace. I have always felt that trolls were about the most ethically-challenged people on the planet. I know that there is a privileged class here, and it ain't us. To my knowledge, I have only had one post alerted on here, and it was left to stand. Surprise, surprise, guess where that post was? I don't even bother anymore in that place....it is a lose/lose endeavor.

[deucemagnet]

26. Don't stoop to that level. It's not worth it.

Besides, they are able to troll this forum because they wield Christian privilege like a cudgel. We have no equivalent, so even if we wanted to play the same dirty tricks they'd be unlikely to succeed.

[defacto7]

37. a better idea...

When there is a hidden post that is uncalled for, just repost it to any number of other web blogs and get it spidered. All of a sudden the infamous post is all over the freakin' net instead of just here in our safe place. That could be more useful and since it doesn't sully our sacred DU halls, what's offensive to a few here will be 100 times more inoffensive all over the planet. No. I don't want to be mean but if we are talking cyber-accountability well we just may be giving the cause some beneficial bounce. That's all.

And as an added feature, we could advertise DU with a link back. That would be beneficial to all!

[DURHAM D]

25. Just wanted to let you know this was Alerted on.

Your post was allowed to stand 1-6. Here is the Alert message and jury results:

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This is the first day back for this member who has been recently banned for attacking religious believers on the site repeatedly. So he doubles down by calling them "jesus freaks" and other slurs. He is just plain toxic and blames the juries for responding to his attacks.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun May 4, 2014, 06:58 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The Jesus Freak thing was a little disrespectful, but honestly, by alerting on a post about a group of individuals excessively alerting on his posts, you kind of make his case for him...
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: The basic Community Standards and ToS of DU apply site-wide; religious bigotry and broad smears against other DUers are offensive, disruptive, and inappropriate, regardless of whether they are placed in a safe-haven Group or not.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: If this had been said in Religion or one of the main forums, the alert would be justified. But it was said in a safe haven. If the alerter doesn't like such comments, they don't need to go into that safe haven. As the old saying goes, listeners rarely hear good of themselves.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Note: For some reason it took a very long time for the results to come back.

[deucemagnet]

28. Wow, no shame whatsoever.

I'm really amazed that some posters are so choked with bile that they'd spend a beautiful springtime Sunday afternoon alert-trolling this forum. It would be kind of funny if it weren't so sad.

[Curmudgeoness]

29. Isn't that so typical.

I loved the one comment: "by alerting on a post about a group of individuals excessively alerting on his posts, you kind of make his case for him". Truth.

On edit: When I was in my early teens, and I was preaching to anyone who would listen, we actually called ourselves "Jesus freaks".

[Lordquinton]

34. Love the privileged group claiming slurs

when they use Atheist as one against us.

[mr blur]

43. Well, you'd better all just keep away from me,

seeing as how I'm "just plain toxic".

It would seem that the alerter has been waiting for my "first day back" in order to find something to alert on. I have, of course, no idea who this is but it seems to me to be a very sad, bitter xian.

[Rob H.]

44. 'I've just been out of DU for three weeks...

because members of that group decided that whatever I said should be alerted on."

Wow, what a juvenile thing for them to do, and especially ironic since they never call their own out when they say negative things about atheists. I wish I could say I'm surprised at their behavior, but....

[cleanhippie]

71. You have pretty much summed up my feelings on the matter.

And when something like that gets hidden, we know they are scared.

[Curmudgeoness]

6. One of the big problems with the jury system

is that the alerter has all the power to make comments and argue their case, but the poster has no such right. There was probably no mention that this is a safe haven for us so the jurors would be aware of that.

It only makes me feel a little better knowing that it was a close vote.

[trotsky]

7. In other news, the sky is still blue.

As deucemagnet said, it's impotent rage. When confronted with the raw bigotry officially taught by one's church, it leads to old habits breaking through. Can't burn us at the stake anymore, so alerting on a post and hoping for a sympathetic jury is all they have left.

[JoeyT]

9. And in the meantime, actual defenses of homophobia in said organization are allowed to stand.

"Progressives" can insist molested kids should get the fuck over it and nothing happens, but remind people of those molested kids and you're courting a hide. And we still can't go a week without someone reminding us how persecuted Christians are here.

[LostOne4Ever]

11. the whole thing about those of us who called the pope out on his bigotry

being the "real" bigots still infuriates me

How dare we judge the pope on his actual words and actions as opposed to the ones that exist solely in their imaginations!

[nil desperandum]

42. Agreed

I especially enjoyed being told that what the pope said four short years ago is of no consequence because it was so long ago as to be irrelevant, I wonder if the person stating that would be so forgiving of the words used by the previous administration in the white house.

We all know what a piece of garbage Dick Cheney has been since his days as a draft dodging liar, his words then and his words now indict him.

The pope can not be considered in a different light than Mr. Cheney as both have said reprehensible things and held positions that are untenable for decent people...the hypocrisy in such attitudes is disturbing in it's obvious clarity.

[Lordquinton]

46. But really now, does the pope even exist?

He could be in your mind, or even an atheist plot to make Catholics look bad.

[skepticscott]

10. It seems that some of the religionistas

spend more time trolling our safe haven hoping to find something that honks them off than they do trying to start discussions of interest to them in any of their own (multiple) safe havens.

Which is pretty sad, when you think about it.

[JNelson6563]

32. Agreed.

I really can't get over the small-mindedness. Not to mention utter lack of life outside of DU. Unless I miss my guess this was done by one of our imbalanced 24/7ers who happens to be a real up and comer in the 101st Chairborne for Jesus.

Gag worthy for sure. If that is life while enjoying the love of the lord, well, no thanks. Looks more like hateful misery.

Julie

[Arugula Latte]

12. WTF?!

Seriously, what utter bullshit. Way to blow it, pro-hiding jurors.

[Arugula Latte]

13. Also, I would suggest to everyone in A&A: fill up your jury blacklist, judiciously.

[trotsky]

15. I wholeheartedly concur. n/t

[stone space]

16. How do you do that?

I've had one person here and in other forums complaining about my posts multiple times already who I might want to blacklist.

And I probably should blacklist the entire RKBA group.

[Arugula Latte]

17. Click on "My Account"

and it will bring up a number of tabs. "Jury Blacklist" is one of them. You can put five people on it if you are not a star member, and star members get 15.

[deucemagnet]

18. You don't need to be a star member,

but you only get to add 5 names. That increases to 15 if you become a star member.

[Arugula Latte]

19. Right. Thanks. I edited that right as you were replying.

[deucemagnet]

21. Whoops! Sorry. n/t

[stone space]

20. Thanks!

[Warpy]

22. A few religionists are on some sort of crusade

so it would be extremely helpful if safe haven posts were reviewed by the mods, not random juries. Random juries aren't always willing to read the group rules.

I can't believe that post was hidden. I've seen a lot worse here, probably not hidden because the crusaders were tired after a day's work trolling the net for something to be offended about and were fast asleep.

In any case, I think it was alerted on not for the indisputable past history but because of the present core values of homophobia and misogyny. I think we're supposed to believe that's all in the past because there is a slightly more sympathetic pope in office, keeping women out of the priesthood and gays in the closet with a smile.

Note to pious trollers: this forum is all about things you find offensive. Unless you are desperate to be offended about something, stay away. And even if you feel like there is some sort of godly victory to be had for shutting this forum down by getting all the posts hidden, we are not going away. We'll still be out here and we'll still know all religious dogma is a load of donkey bollocks. You will never find the robotic consensus you seek.

[Curmudgeoness]

24. I think that every time we post here

we should copy your last statement at the end of the post---just so we have half a chance with a jury. We would have our "day in court" by letting the jurors know that this is a safe haven. Actually, an edit to that statement would say "this safe haven forum...."

[Warpy]

27. Feel free to cut and paste

but wait a couple of days to find out if enough people have gotten bent out of shape over it that my post is hidden, too.

[Curmudgeoness]

30. Please tell me that isn't possible!

There is zero reason for a hide there. That would make the point of the OP all the more evident.

[Warpy]

31. Well, of course

but when did it ever stop any of them?

[Iggo]

35. Aw, poor babies.

[defacto7]

36. Honestly you fun lovin' A&A ers

I don't see the big deal. It's hidden like NOT. It's there. So what if it's yellow now. That is a "Look at ME" banner calling "Please! LOOK AT MEEE!". It makes it stand out as the forbidden fruit given to Adam by Eve in the Garden of Eden! When I see those, I am drawn almost like a deity from the netherworld (the R group) is pulling me closer ever closer to that "SHOW POST" link... and voilà! There it is in evil Technicolor! Let's enjoy our popularity! with a snack of crispy fried baby toes.

[skepticscott]

39. So what?

It doesn't matter that the original post can still be read with an extra click. The hiding of the OP means that we are now barred from responding to it or continuing any discussion of it in our own fucking safe haven. And the point of these trolls is not just to block our threads, it's also to put hides on people's accounts in an attempt to get them banned from any posting at all, because they get their intellectual heads handed to them every time in an open debate in religion.

So please, take your defense of this and hide it away somewhere deep.

[Warren Stupidity]

45. Indeed, the goal is to exercise the auto-ban feature of DU 3.1 on us awful atheists, and to use

the fear of getting banned to shut us the fuck up.

[Rob H.]

47. I know alerts are anonymous insofar as DU members don't see who sent them...

but can admins (rather than hosts) see alerters' identities? If so, I like to think if they saw a pattern emerging among a small group of people that showed them alerting on the same poster(s) to get their posts hidden, they'd step in and either put them on forced ignore or at least send each member of the group a PM and tell them to knock it off under threat of forced ignore or even getting PPRed. Following a person from group to group and then waiting for him to post something that might be alert-worthy is creepily like cyberstalking, not to mention unbelievably childish, imo. It also makes DU suck.

[Warren Stupidity]

48. good luck with that.

Many people from other safe havens have had similar problems, hof, for example, and have asked and have been told that there is not and never has been any problem at all with alert stalking.

Who knows, that could be true. The lack of transparency makes it impossible for anyone except the owners to know what really goes on.

[trotsky]

49. That can't be!

DU3 is all about transparency!

[Rob H.]

50. That sucks

I just wish there was something that could be done. It pisses me off to think that because some of them get their asses handed to them on a a regular basis by atheists they'll just game the system in order to get them banned for good. I'd be willing to bet, based on their behavior toward non-believers over there, some of them are probably nursing some pretty nasty grudges after getting booted out of here, too, so what better way to get payback than to trawl this safe haven looking for things to alert on?

[defacto7]

52. I agree with you...

But turning your anger on me for trying to lighten things a bit is ludicrous. That's a pretty good indication you're over the top and that is exactly what they want. You like to play into their hands? Go right ahead. On the other hand if you want to do something about it, I suggest putting some energy into... doing something about it, not giving them a good laugh over angry rants that they were able to goad you into. Their biggest victory is making us turn on our own support.

I don't want some trolls blocking, banning, barring anyone in our group, but I also don't like the idea of feeding their flame. That's the only real power they have.

So please take you straw man and hide it wherever you want, although they can make great torches.

[skepticscott]

53. Not sure what straw man you're talking about

As I said, and which is undisputed, this is about a lot more than getting individual posts hidden. I don't find much funny about having our discussions in what is supposed to be a safe haven suppressed by trolls from Religion. Absolutely no reason we should take it lightly.

[defacto7]

56. I don't take the abuse lightly...

That doesn't mean I give them a show. Most of their positions hold no value because there is no substance. I take many of them lightly.

The straw man - Calling my ridicule of their act "defense of this". I assume "this" to be their offensive acts. There was no defense of their acts though you may want see it that way if you are defensive. "Defense" is the straw man you set up as an argument which doesn't exist so you could shoot down what doesn't exist. Do you consider yourself a skeptic and a literalist? I've found that a difficult position when I've been there myself.

You said, "As I said, and which is undisputed..." You mentioned a few things in your last comment that I agree with but undisputed? Maybe they're undisputed, maybe not indisputable.

There are some very simple "things" missed in the arguments of this OP that are so illogical that it hurts to think atheists haven't done their homework so they could be more effective. I just hope some of our very devoted atheist members will think past the anger and stop defending themselves like religionists and start making reasonable advances. Personally, I have no desire to defend myself, but I will defend the integrity of this group simply because I participate in it. It seems we have different opinions as to how to accomplish that.

[TxDemChem]

38. That's ridiculous!

Personally, I like the cartoon and am in no way offended. And as I'm an active member of this group, I think people from that other group should stay out, lest they want to be even more offended. Why should we change our forum to make them feel comfortable?

[amuse bouche]

40. That cartoon is great and so full of truth

There should be billboards displaying it everywhere

[progressoid]

57. This one?

[Goblinmonger]

59. ....

[amuse bouche]

61. Yep

It's odd how thin skinned the oh so faithful can be, especially when confronted with the truth and not fallacy and myth, like the book they supposedly live by

[Goblinmonger]

63. So it seems they couldn't get the cartoon hidden this time

so then went after one of the responses.

Classy act, those nannies we have.

[trotsky]

64. Gotta admire their persistence.

Well, I guess not, since it's actually a fucking OBSESSION.

[mr blur]

65. Great response, though! nt

[progressoid]

67. Wow.

I was wondering if I would get a message in my inbox about that.

Did NOT expect one of the responses to it to get hidden.



Sorry truebrit71.

[amuse bouche]

68. "Classy act"

Now if that toon showed up in dozens of threads, that would be classy

[cleanhippie]

73. The alerter is like the one that gets bent out of shape when the topic comes up.

Like the rest of the RCC, they want the issue swept under the rug and for everyone to pretend it never happened.

[cleanhippie]

72. Nice!

[Rainforestgoddess]

41. Apparently we can still rec that op

It might be too late for this op to bump to the home page, but if it happens again, we should rec the crap out of it.

[truebrit71]

51. Shouldn't the jury be made up of members of the group...

...alone?

[skepticscott]

54. It does seem like there should be a different review process

for alerts in a safe haven. DU juries, unfortunately, cannot be counted on to consider why someone would be in a room in the first place, other than to troll and disrupt, when they know that the content of that room is liable to offend them. I can understand why the admins don't want to give totally free reign to posters in safe havens, but when the content of the alerted post is not only accurate, but exactly what someone coming into this room should expect, the alerter should be dismissed with a "you don't like this shit..don't come in here"

[Warren Stupidity]

55. nope. All posts everywhere have to meet "community standards".

[truebrit71]

58. Well that's pretty effing stupid...

...so someone goes into the Feminists group and posts "Hey why don't you dumb broads just pipe down and show us your tits"....someone alerts, and then 4 knuckle-draggers vote to leave it, and the posts gets to stand? That sounds a bit daft to me...

The whole point of a safe haven is to be "safe" and not to have to deal with the prejudices and pre-conceived notions of the wider collective...

Is there a way to suggest/propose this?

[amuse bouche]

62. Hilarious and so right on

Just remember...Many Religies are delicate flowers and can only deal with myths, not facts

[frogmarch]

66. OK, so “safe haven” on DU

means that if someone posts inflammatory remarks in a safe haven group, he or she may be banned by the hosts from posting there again, BUT he or she is still allowed to cause trouble by alerting on individual threads or posts in the safe haven group.

People who hate atheists and agnostics should just stay the hell out of A&A. The only reason they come here is to stir things up and cause trouble. I guess they think they’re doing god’s work.

[defacto7]

69. Yep.

and unfortunately it's to be expected. Until the rules are changed, that's how it works. To be banned does not block you from reprisal and reprisal does not necessarily add up to an infraction of any kind.

That's why I see hiding and banning under the present rules as trite. Hiding doesn't stop a thread from being read, it is a method of banning the threads author in steps. The system's main flaw is that it sets up the groundwork for flame wars, for undermining free speech and reprisal. There are loopholes that have to be closed. Outside of that the biggest kid on the block wins.

[cleanhippie]

70. I kinda expected it to be alerted on, and considered adding a note to the jury...

But I thought that if people are unable to see the toon for what it is, then any additional explanation wouldn't help.

Fuck 'em. Reason is winning, superstition and mythology is beginning to gasp for breath. The writing is on the wall. Religion and it's adherents consistency through the ages of hiding the truth and the facts is not new.