"I would worry if she were atheist"

[RussBLib]

So the South Carolina Director of the Department of Social Services, Lillian Koller, is under pressure to resign.

SC Gov Nikki Haley and Republican State Senator Katrina Shealy get into a tiff about whether or not Koller is an atheist. Koller is actually Jewish.

Shealy goes on to say,

"I don't give a flying flip what the Director is...Well that is not true either, I would worry if she were atheist but I was told she wasn't..."

So, what is it about being an atheist that would negatively affect someone's job performance?

We have a long way to go in the south before atheists are recognized as decent, reasonable, moral people. If anything, atheists are even more decent, reasonable, and moral than most of today's Christians, if we consider the GOP to be symptomatic of Christianity today. Getting people to realize that is going to take some time, and some persuasive atheists.

the story:
more: http://www.buzzfeed.com/mckaycoppins/south-carolina-state-senator-asked-governor-whether-appointe

[Manifestor_of_Light]

1. I'm reading The God Delusion right now.

I've already read a whole bunch of Hitchens.
This is stuff I basically already know but well organized since Dawkins is a professor.

I'm sure the neighbors think we are satan worshipers and voodoo practioners since we don't go to church. There are no other social outlets.

They don't like anybody who is not a white anglo-saxon protestant of certain denomination, preferably Baptist or if you are a bit more affluent, Methodist. And there are lots of little unaffiliated churches with uneducated preachers who didn't go to a proper seminary.

There are very few atheists in prison. Einstein himself said that if people have to have a god watching them to make them do good then we are "a sorry lot indeed."

[TxDemChem]

2. I've yet to meet one person who is not for for their job because of their atheism.

In fact, I often think it's beneficial. When you don't feel the need to conform, you can avoid group think and negative peer pressure. I also think we lie less and tend to act more rationally, mostly because we are a minority and can accept that other peoples' opinions of us may be tainted by their own intolerance.

I know those statements are broad brush strokes, but in general, that is what I have seen.

[Brainstormy]

3. "In the south"?

I don't think this is a regional phenomenon.

[Neoma]

4. Neither is religion.

But for very good reasons, we refer to some places in the south as the "Bible Belt." The difference from rural Tennessee and Chicagoland is eye opening to me...having lived in both. Even the laws reflect upon this...

Tennessee's State Constitution, Article 9 Section 2
"No person who denies the being of God, or a future state of rewards and punishments, shall hold any office in the civil department of this state."

[Curmudgeoness]

5. Holy shit!

That is beyond belief---although to be fair, I don't even know if other states, including mine, might have the same archaic language in their Constitutions. I do know that there was a huge fight in a small town here when someone who was elected to some town board refused to swear on a Bible, and they would not seat him because the law stated that he had to. Luckily, that was overturned when taken to court, but still.

I can see the relevance of refusing to do so, but to be honest, it would made zero difference to me to swear on a Bible or swear to god, because if I take an oath, it could be on a Cheerios box and it would mean just as much to me....because my word is my word. But those Christians, they must have some power to force them into being good, I suppose.

[A HERETIC I AM]

7. Well, here's your state Constitution;

http://sites.state.pa.us/PA_Constitution.html

Interesting that it says;

Religious Freedom
Section 3.
All men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own consciences; no man can of right be compelled to attend, erect or support any place of worship or to maintain any ministry against his consent; no human authority can, in any case whatever, control or interfere with the rights of conscience, and no preference shall ever be given by law to any religious establishments or modes of worship.

Religion
Section 4.
No person who acknowledges the being of a God and a future state of rewards and punishments shall, on account of his religious sentiments, be disqualified to hold any office or place of trust or profit under this Commonwealth.

(Bold emphasis mine)

If I remember correctly, there are about 7 or 8 states with language similar to the SC Constitution, but all of them are void due to the US Constitution and applicable Supreme Court decisions.

[Curmudgeoness]

8. Thank you.

I suppose that I was just too lazy to look....or maybe afraid to know. It is reassuring that we are not one of those states that are real embarrassments, although we have a lot to be ashamed of (for instance, Santorum and Toomey).

It is rather odd language in Section 4....we cannot discriminate against someone who believes in God and Heaven and Hell (funny that they leave the actual words out)---like that ever happens. But if someone does not acknowledge all of this, I don't read it as a protection for them. But at least we are not openly discriminated against in the PA Constitution.

[A HERETIC I AM]

9. Yeah, I found that wording rather confusing as well.

It's like saying "If you believe, we CAN'T shut you out.......but if you DON'T believe........



?????


Right?

Big hole there.

I find it interesting because PA was truly one of the founding states - the "Keystone", if you will.

[Curmudgeoness]

10. It is true that PA is one of the original colonies, and states.

But also remember, this state was originally a Quaker colony.

[trotsky]

11. It's not.

But it is definitely more prevalent in the South.

I couldn't ever let my grandmother know about my lack of belief. She felt atheists were the scum of the earth.

[AlbertCat]

16. I don't think this is a regional phenomenon.

It's not.

But the South will insure the nodding of heads....

However, the West and the "Heartland" have recently made "the South" look like an amusement park. All this gun toting "wild west" crap....

But since we elected a 1/2 black man as president.... the bigots have come out EVERYWHERE.... not just the South.

[onager]

6. And my home state embarasses me again...

Nothing unusual there. About all I can say is..."Forget it, Jake. It's South Carolina."

I'm often reminded of the famous quote from a SC judge, back in 1860 when the state was the first to secede from the union: "South Carolina is too small to be a republic. And too large to be an insane asylum."

When I was back there for Xmas in 2012, one of the most famous SC "town atheists" died. His name was Michael Deanhardt. Along with militant atheism, he was an early advocate of civil rights back in the late 1950s-early 60s. That got his kids beat up in school, and a bomb in his yard from the KKK. Google "Michael Deanhardt Anderson SC" to learn a little more about him.

As Mr. Deanhardt lay dying in a hospital, naturally he was harassed by a parade of Bible-wallopers trying to get a deathbed conversion from the Famous Atheist.

They kept urging him to "give his heart to Jesus." And he kept replying: "The problem is not my heart, it's my liver." ROFL. Unconverted right to the end, and I bet he's often used as an object lesson in Sunday sermons nowadays.

SC did have at least one other famous atheist, the Civil War general Maxey Gregg. Gregg built his own astronomical observatory in his house, and amassed a library of scientific books second only to Harvard University. He was fatally wounded at the battle of Fredericksburg in 1862, and had to endure a deathbed conversion attempt by the religious fanatic "Stonewall" Jackson.

[nil desperandum]

12. Worry if she were an atheist

Right, because atheists can't understand how to administer social services without the direction of someone's god?

In most states the administration of government agencies designed to aid the poor, children, or veterans more closely resembles proof of hell than proof of god and heaven.

There are some truly abysmal agencies being run by god fearing folk, and those agencies fail every day to provide the services and protections they are tasked with providing to the public every day.

An atheist might be just the trick to get some of the agencies back on mission critical tasks that actually serve and protect the core constituency they were designed to serve.

[RussBLib]

13. list of states that prohibit atheists from public office

I now have the means to hire an attorney to challenge Texas' prohibition, and with retirement a year away, I think I'm going to do it, unless someone beats me to it.

This list includes South Carolina, but that prohibition was overturned.

Arkansas, Article 19, Section 1:
No person who denies the being of a God shall hold any office in the civil departments of this State, nor be competent to testify as a witness in any Court.

Maryland, Article 37:
That no religious test ought ever to be required as a qualification for any office of profit or trust in this State, other than a declaration of belief in the existence of God; nor shall the Legislature prescribe any other oath of office than the oath prescribed by this Constitution.

Mississippi, Article 14, Section 265:
No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any office in this state.

North Carolina, Article 6, Section 8
The following persons shall be disqualified for office: Any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God.

South Carolina, Article 17, Section 4:
No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any office under this Constitution.

Tennessee, Article 9, Section 2:
No person who denies the being of God, or a future state of rewards and punishments, shall hold any office in the civil department of this state.

Texas, Article 1, Section 4:
No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being.

found this here.

As a Texan, I am insulted. You can be any religion in Texas, JUST NOT AN ATHEIST!

Thanks for all of your comments.

[roninjedi]

17. As a fellow Texan I feel ya

But the exact wording is: "provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being. "

I'm gonna assume that Chuck Norris counts.

[LeftishBrit]

14. Thought your Constitution banned religious tests for office?

We have plenty of atheist MPs in the UK, and even more where no one would have a clue what their religion is (possibly not even the MPs themselves!)

Even here, the religious-right 'pro-life movement' occasionally rears its ugly head.

But no one could say that atheists have no right to hold office, without alienating a significant portion of the electorate.

My preferred candidate for PM next year, Ed Miliband, is an atheist; though my reasons for preferring him are due to his being Labour and just not being David bloody Cameron.

[RussBLib]

15. you Brits are much further along the trail on atheist thought

than the good ol' US of A.

The US had Robert Ingersoll and a whole raft of popular atheists in the mid-1800's to early 1900's, but somehow the people at large slipped back behind the veil of ignorance and superstition. Or at least, that's what they tell us.

It's maddening.

And yes, several United States state Constitutions are in conflict with the US Constitution, but someone has to step up and challenge them successfully.