So I came out as an atheist today to a family friend

[TxDemChem]

Who helped me get my job. She was almost in tears. She and another coworker took me to lunch to celebrate my birthday and when she asked me say grace, I told her I was an atheist. She and my other coworker prayed and I remained quiet, but I was surprised when they initiated a polite tag-team debate on me and I shut them down in less than two minutes (I mentioned stories from Numbers and Joshua that they could not apply any non-circular [too many fallacies to count] explanations to. Anyway, I was just wondering if anyone knows of a succinct argument against religion for a situation like that. I trapped them and got the family friend to accidentally admit that the bible was written by men for the time in which they lived. I'm not out to be militant or to take away the one good thing in a believer's life, but I would like to shut down those conversations before they start. Any ideas?

[ZombieHorde]

1. Some of the questions in this article may be useful to you.

http://thomasswan.hubpages.com/hub/40-Questions-to-ask-a-Christian

[TxDemChem]

3. I realized it after I clicked on the link that

I have that page saved to my favorites. I completely forgot about that arsenal. Thank you for posting it. I will have to refer to it often, I am sure. Those were absolutely wonderful questions. Although that idiot with the questions to atheists worked my last good nerve! (It's linked at the bottom of the page if anyone is interested)

[Trajan]

2. I explain I need more than faith ...

And that something as huge and vast and almighty and everywhere and everything as God MUST have some sort of real evidence laying around somewhere ..... I would be glad to believe in God if only they could bring me some sort of tangible, irrefutable proof of God's existence ... Something I can taste, feel, touch, smell and/or see .... Faith isn't enough for me ....

I cannot believe an everything everywhere God cannot be located ....

[TxDemChem]

4. Thank you

I didn't even think to mention that I need evidence and that faith alone would not work for me.

It's sometimes the most direct, yet succinct, statements that I tend to forget. I think I've been listening to too many atheist podcasts lately and just threw out the last bit of info that I had researched.

[Arugula Latte]

17. God's sort of a recluse these days.

I mean, jeez, not even a voice from a burning bush anymore. Would it kill him to make a little effort?

[TxDemChem]

20. Lol I know

He could have popped up at that table and I would have become a believer. But no. He wasn't there.

[eShirl]

5. No need to argue specifics in the bible; you just don't beleive.

I don't argue the minutia of the Santa Clause myth with young children either.

[awoke_in_2003]

7. +1. nt

[TxDemChem]

10. I didn't even want to bring up the Bible, except

The family friend asked when I chose to be an atheist. I told her it was an accident. And after more prompting by her as to the accident, I told her I became one after reading the Bible. The next time, I will follow your advice and not even bring it up. My bad

[Heather MC]

24. I became one after reading the bible as well

what chapter in Numbers led you to become a godless hethen?

Mine was Exodus 32

[TxDemChem]

29. Numbers itself didn't turn me, but

I was shocked at the sheer numbers of people killed. It seemed that every little infraction was punishable by death. And I could never understand how a loving god would allow innocent children to be slaughtered, but be okay with the men who did the slaughtering keeping the virgin girls for themselves. That sounds more like something a human male wrote than the word of god. This is actually the debate that occurred at lunch. They could not justify killing babies, but keeping the virgins. The family friend said something to the effect of, "well, that was written by man." And I thought to myself EXACTLY!

[Warpy]

6. "I'm an atheist. It has nothing to do with you and there is nothing you can do about it. Let's eat

That works for me, a simple statement of fact and cutting off any discussion right out of the gate. If they try, then I simply keep changing the subject.

It's nobody else's business what I think and I'm certainly not their job to fix. I'm not out to fix them, either. I don't believe a word of it and that's just how things are.

[TxDemChem]

11. I like your method too.

My husband said something along that line last night.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

8. Brava, or bravo, as it fits.

Good job. It cannot be easy.

[TxDemChem]

13. It was difficult, but I didn't feel any shame

[mgc1961]

9. I can't give you a surefire answer for those situations.

The believer's approaches are too varied for one answer. I simply tailor my response to the inquiry. One might describe it as thinking on my feet.

Being respectful also helps. I don't try to shut down the conversation. My answers and a good-natured redirection of the conversation usually works just fine without generating bad feelings.

[TxDemChem]

14. Luckily, they were polite and I was polite

But they just kept bringing it back up (we took a 2.5 hr lunch break). So it was a long conversation. Eventually, after I refuted every argument they threw at me , they stopped trying to debate me and moved on to other subjects. The funny thing afterwards, though, was when the family friend said she needed to take another look at her bible.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

27. You might try, "God told me to not talk about religion today." Who are they to disagree with God?

[TxDemChem]

30. Lol

That would be too funny

[LostOne4Ever]

12. Did you try just telling them you don't want to talk about it?

Maybe if you just said you don't like talking about religion and asked them to leave it at that? If they are your friends they should be able to respect that.

But then again, when it comes to mythologies people believe in...some people have issues with others not validating their own superstitions

[TxDemChem]

15. I would have loved to not talked about it with them,

But they just kept bringing it up. I hope they don't bring it up again though. The family friend still goes to church with my aunt and uncle so I think she was truly shocked that anyone in my family would be a non-believer. My dad and I used to attend that church about 25 years ago, but we deconverted independently when I was younger. The other coworker only recently found Jesus again after her mother passed last year.

[Arugula Latte]

16. I know someone who has said: "I just don't have any belief in the supernatural."

That is a good conversation stopper sometimes.

[TxDemChem]

19. I like that one as well.

The family friend often talks about guardian angels. I've always wondered if she felt abandoned because no angels protected her from her ex husband. They've been divorced for decades now, but I am sure her cognitive dissonance has completely taken over her non-chemist life.

[AlbertCat]

42. Bingo!

I don't actively dismiss god and gods...I just reject ANYTHING supernatural. It's superfluous.

Besides, science is much more compelling and amazing....and useful.

[Curmudgeoness]

18. I used to engage in the conversations,

and bring up all the things that were in the Bible that were inconsistent, misleading, or downright foolish. Then I really hurt someone with this. They were very religious, and they were not interested in debating the issue of the Bible, only in converting me. It ended a good friendship that would have lasted if not for the religious issues.

I now refuse to engage. I state that I don't believe in any gods or religions, and I am not willing to be preached to. I am not caring if they are converted to atheism either....let them have their faith. But it has usually been easy for me to just stop the conversation by stating that I don't want to be saved and let's leave it at that.

[TxDemChem]

21. That's what I was afraid of

I don't want to disrupt her friendship with our family over some b.s. I was very glad to see that she didn't want to convert me though. She sounded like she just wanted to understand how such a change could come about. In the end she just said, "well, I still love you regardless" and we went on with our lunch.

[Curmudgeoness]

22. I guess that we could all just say

"well, I still love you" back at them. I am glad that it all worked out well, because it really is a stupid reason for an argument. You believe or you don't---it just cannot be forced.

Congrats on coming out on this, I know it isn't easy.

[TxDemChem]

23. I let her know that I love her too

She has been something of a second mom to both my husband and I and we love having her in our lives.

She did say that if she were me, she wouldn't mention it at work (I met hubby at work 5 years ago and the 3 of us are on the same floor). I told her that many others already knew. They haven't treated me any differently, even though they are all religious.

[Zoeisright]

25. Tell them they are atheists too.

They don't believe any other god but the one they were told about when they were young. You just believe in one less god than they do.

Or you tell them to mind their own fricking business.

[TxDemChem]

31. That is my usual response to people I don't like

I think I would have said it if I weren't completely blind-sided. But they were receptive.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

26. If you want to help bring your friends to the light of reason and remain friends, you might

want to use an approach other than being confrontational.

Voltaire and others used a technique to otherwise point out how non-Christian religions were absurd. You might try that (if it is not too late) and let them reach their own conclusions.

On the otherhand, if they want to believe in things as daffy as the Easter Bunny, why not just enjoy their company and let them continue to be daffy.

[TxDemChem]

32. I have no desire to try to deconvert anyone

If they bring it up again, I will probably point out the absurdities of other gods and religions (I did that to someone else last week who was getting on my nerves), but I think those two won't say anything.

[intaglio]

28. If God chooses to reveal himself to some, why not to all?

This is usually followed by a reference to Pascal's Wager in some form, best answered by the soft "If there is a God then I do not think that He would be vengeful or vindictive towards someone who has been unable to see the Light, but he might be annoyed with someone, unlike you, who only worship for selfish reasons."

They'll carry on, of course, but just keep with the soft "what a good chap God would have to be be - if he existed,"

[TxDemChem]

33. I think that all the time

The family friend is one of those good people who truly believes. The other coworker seems to be of the fearful/selfish type. I'm only 31 and they are both in their late 50. The other coworker does not act Christlike at all. She gossips and talks crap about others and has no problem acting like a true bitch on a daily basis. I can't stand those types of Christians.

[TxDemChem]

34. I forgot to add

I think the other coworker is facing her own mortality

[OriginalGeek]

35. I grew up in fundamentalist baptist home

the question that got me started on my path to atheism is: "Why would an omniscient, omnipotent god create me knowing in advance I would die and go to the hell he also created?"

After that I determined if there is god then he is an asshole and that's what I tell people from that corner of christendom if they ask. Normal people (non-fundamentalists, non-young-earth creationists, people who actually accept evolution and believe in caring for other people among other things, etc...) just get the "Thanks but I'm an atheist".

[TxDemChem]

37. Lol I love that response; I'd have to use it sparingly, but that is my biggest issue with

The idea of the Christian god. I mentioned that to them (in a nice way), but they were stumped.

Thanks for responding. I'll post an update of today on another thread. I think everyone will be tickled by today's events.

[Neoma]

40. What did it with me is, "why am I feeling guilt tripped into believing in god?"

Not a total flip around like some people have. But I just didn't think it was right to have to feel that way.

[OriginalGeek]

41. Yeah they were heavy on the guilt

I remember our church having a "special event" where they played the movie "A Burning Hell" (Pastor Jack Hyles was in it as himself)...It was pretty gruesome for the mid 70s and in church!

It's pretty effin hilarious now:

[Neoma]

43. I remember some video about how not to get scammed when you go to the Middle East. (Isreal?)

You don't want to accidentally buy the fake rusty nail that Jesus's hand was punctured with after all!

[TxDemChem]

45. Oh yes, the lovely guilt trip. After we got back to work,

The family friend kept talking about Fellowshipping. That got on my nerves a little bit.

[cynatnite]

36. I would've just politely told them they're more than welcome to say grace and leave it at that...

I'm a don't rock the boat kind of atheist. I have no problem with others believing and I'm not out to show their religion for what it is: an ancient and ignorant way of dealing with life.

Now, If I'm asked point blank about my religious beliefs or lack thereof, I will say that I'm an atheist.

Otherwise, I would prefer to go about my life as normal as anyone else and not make what is supposed to be an enjoyable event an awkward and uncomfortable one for everyone involved.

But that's just me.

[TxDemChem]

38. I'm with you there.

I figure I see these people 5 days a week and they are not close to retiring, so I will try to keep our relationships as civil and drama-free as possible.

[cynatnite]

39. So, why not just tell them to go ahead and pray?

I'm not saying hide what you are, but knowing the Christians I know, they will think "oh, she needs saved" and do their whole "Jesus loves you" and all that. Then you have to be the mean atheist that hates Christianity and Christians.

I would rather let others think I'm as god fearing as anybody else than to get sucked into a position of having to explain why I'm not a Christian and beat up on their religion at the same time.

It just turns into a giant hassle for me, hard feelings for them and a general pain in the ass. I'd rather just pass the "prayer" so to speak and let it go. It's not worth getting into it with them.

I'd rather engage with people on the subject who are truly interested in the discussion and not the conversion.

[dorkulon]

44. "We should probably just avoid the issue" usually does it for me.

But then I don't know too many church-goers.

[TxDemChem]

46. I'm all for avoiding it, although I think she's brought

My aforementioned aunt and uncle into it. My aunt texted me last night inviting us over today for a last-minute family get-together. I hope they don't use any of that Christian salt or holy water in making the meal!

[dorkulon]

47. It's tough to have these conversations.

The main problem is that in defending your own point of view, you are inevitably attacking theirs. No matter how nice you are about it, you're essentially telling them they have no idea what they're talking about. You're right of course, but that only makes it less palatable.

My philosophy can be condensed to this: "I don't know what I'm doing here or why the universe exists, and neither do you." It's the second part some people have a problem with, although I think it's pretty hard to deny the truth of it when stated that simply.