How I Unwittingly Infiltrated the Boy’s Club & Why It’s Time for a New Wave of Atheism

[redqueen]

Not sure how well anyone has followed the events which arose as a result of the discussions and increased awareness of harassment following 'Elevatorgate', but one of the results was the idea of having an official mechanism to report and deal with said harassment at skeptic / atheist conferences. This seemed to most people like simply a rational response, but some accused those who were addressing the issue of being responsible for falling numbers of women attending these conferences, or maybe just TAM in particular, I'm not sure. The accusation seemed silly to me, and most others it seemed, so I forgot about it. Well, it apparently didn't just not quietly disappear, it escalated. It's unfortunate that things went the way they did, but maybe this is the silver lining.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/blaghag/2012/08/how-i-unwittingly-infiltrated-the-boys-club-why-its-time-for-a-new-wave-of-atheism/

It’s been five years now since I first became involved with the atheist and skeptic movements. And for most of those five years, I felt like I belonged. When I started the Society of Non-Theists at Purdue University, I was relieved to know I wasn’t the only atheist on my campus. So when I realized there was an even greater national movement, I was elated to become a part of it. I had finally found people who shared my passion and values. I was welcomed with open arms.

Until I started talking about feminism.

You see, my previous atheist activism wasn’t sullied by the f-word. People applauded me for starting an atheist group on a conservative college campus. For blogging about our events and getting local media attention. For volunteering as a board member of the Secular Student Alliance. And most of all, for creating Boobquake.

I’ve always considered myself a feminist, but I used to be one of those teenagers who assumed the awesome ladies before me had solved everything. But Boobquake made me wake up. What I originally envisioned as an empowering event about supporting women’s freedoms and calling out dangerous superstitious thinking devolved into “Show us your tits!” I received sexual invitations from strangers around the country. When I appeared or spoke at atheist events, there was always a flood of comments about my chest and appearance. I’ve been repeatedly told I can never speak out against people objectifying or sexually harassing me because a joke about my boobs was eternal “consent.”

So I started speaking up about dirty issues like feminism and diversity and social justice because I thought messages like “please stop sexually harassing me” would be simple for skeptics and rationalists. But I was naive. Like clockwork, every post on feminism devolved into hundreds of comments accusing me being a man-hating, castrating, humorless, ugly, overreacting harpy. Despite the crap I received, I continued to publicly support these movements and stress that the haters were just a tiny minority. I thought this flood of sexism I had never experienced before was just a consequence of me growing up and heading out into the real world, and had nothing to do with these movements in particular. I can’t count how many times I publicly stressed that the atheist/skeptical movement, while not perfect, is still a safer place for women and other minorities.

But now I recognize that I was trying to convince myself that this is true.

...

Much more at the link.

[skepticscott]

1. Well, atheism is atheism

There's no "New Wave", "Old Wave" or anything in between that isn't simply about not believing in gods. Some men are atheists, and some men are pigs, and some happen to be both, but the latter has nothing to do with whether the former position is true or not. Being an atheist carries no dictates and no guarantees about how an atheist will behave or treat others, as much as some of us would wish it were otherwise.

Sad to say, it's as unlikely that sexist attitudes will go away any time soon as that racist attitudes will. Both have been going strong for thousands of years. Fight the good fight against them, certainly, but the best that can probably be hoped for, in the short term anyway, is to see them become unfashionable in more and more circles of society.

[rrneck]

2. The comments are a riot.

They sound like, "Yeah! We can make costumes and have a play in Spanky's barn!".

There seems to be an endless plethora of ideologies custom designed to serve specific groups of people as if they were some sort of cultural Swiss Army Knife. Just unfold the right doodad and it'll fix anything.

But of course people are complex, and it's not hard to be a female, atheist, Democrat, chess playing, bicycle riding, home owning, self employed Redsox fan. Unfortunately, all the various custom made ideologies and passions large and small have to somehow fit together in the life of an actual person. But since they frequently tout themselves as the do all and be all of cultural development, they compete for preeminence because a lot of people are trying to make a living pushing their unique scheme for how to live a perfect life. The constant wrangling over ideologies and movements built around discrete aspects of the human experience is creating a sort of emotional exhaustion that leaves people with a feeling of anomie.

We're just people. And we all have something in common called our humanity. When we find that common ground we will be free and when we celebrate in others we will be happy. But we won't get there projecting ideologies on others that reflect a narcissistic involvement with some personal characteristic that fascinates us.

[redqueen]

3. Narcissistic what?

This was a simple matter of acknowledging and dealing with harassment.

If you think "projecting" the ideology of fairness and inclusivity is somehow a problem, well, I guess we'll just have to disagree.

[rrneck]

4. "Atheism needs a new wave like feminism."

Should we move atheism under the umbrella of the feminist label, or should feminism rewrite our understanding of atheism? Should we be atheist feminists or feminist atheists? And what will the hats look like? Is there a back end? Get me the fad king!

[Warpy]

5. "Pushing their unique scheme for how to live a perfect life"

How very odd that a humanist would feel this way about objecting to denying human rights to half the human population.

You're saying women are all right as long as they know their place.

Having said this, I do agree the writer in the OP was naive to think male atheists and freethinkers as a group were any more enlightened than the rest of the men out there. Over and over, we've all seen that this is simply not the case.

[rrneck]

6. Actually,

I was objecting to the development of ideology as a consumer product.

Do you have to be a feminist to desire justice and fair treatment for women? No. But feminism as a trend cannot survive without expanding its marketshare to support the manufacturing base for its ideology. How do you think people are supposed to make a living writing all those books and blogs unless they find a way to graft feminism onto everything that moves?

"You're saying women are all right as long as they know their place."

I'm not saying that at all. But you seem to be saying that unless I embrace feminist ideology, I'm a misogynist. Is that what you're saying? If so, prove it. You may find that your lack of proof will prove my point.

[Warpy]

7. The "feminist ideology" you would appear to dislike

boils down to this: the shocking proposition that women are human beings.

Period.

[rrneck]

8. Wow.

It took all those books, conferences, and university departments to figure that out?

Is it possible to come to that conclusion without feminist ideology?

[mr blur]

9. I don't think we should ignore the cultural aspects of this,

and I mean cultural as in the difference between the US and, say, the UK.

I'm 57 and I've always been an atheist. I've never had to 'come out' or "become involved with the atheist and skeptic movements." Nobody over here really cares and I've never felt the need to find security with other non-believers. Consequently, I can walk down the street and presume that many people I pass don't believe in a god, either. Some of them will be arseholes, some will be sexist, some will be deeply upleasant and many will be excellent company. We are not ostracised or persecuted and I don't need to feel that other atheists are just like me. Non-belief is probably the only thing we have in common.

[MineralMan]

10. There is nothing about atheism that ensures anything other

than disbelief in deities. Atheists can be assholes or wonderful people. In that, we are like everyone else. We don't believe that deities exist. Beyond that, there are no other characteristics we all have in common.

[onager]

11. Controversy gets more controversial...

Dr. Harriet A. Hall, author of the "Skepdoc" column in Skeptic magazine, at TAM 2012.

Front of shirt: "I Feel Safe & Welcome At TAM:"



Back of shirt: "I'm a skeptic. Not a 'skepchick.' Not a 'woman skeptic.' Just a skeptic:"

[Act_of_Reparation]

12. This certainly did make some waves...

While I count myself amongst the contingent who feels vetting the movement of unwelcoming forces is necessary for practical and moral purposes, some feel addressing the issue of sexual harassment and misogyny will irreparably fracture the movement and cause us to lose traction in the long run.

Hall is likely one of those people. While I am pleased she doesn't feel threatened or marginalized by the rest of the skeptical community, I think it is still important to consider the experiences and opinions of those who do.

[dmallind]

13. I've met racist atheists, homophobic atheists, sexist atheists and RW atheists

Far fewer of them than in a general population however. I've met racist, homophobic, sexist and RW Scrabble players and opera fans too to name a couple more groups with which I am fairly familiar. None of them is particularly a "boys' club" and none of them is as bad as the general population. Can anyone tell me of any group that has no members of this ilk? Pretty sure there are racist, homophobic, sexist (definitely) and RW feminists too. Or Buddhists, vegetarians and cyclists and....... Do we need new waves of all groups to weed out any memeber who has any insensitivity or bias towards any other group? By all means lets remind atheist gatherings of their fragile public image and the need to be on their absolute best behavior towards ANYBODY when gathered in groups or under any atheist "brand", but the idea that there is some huge woman-hating rapist-in-waiting horde of men in charge of atheism is absurd.

[Act_of_Reparation]

14. Every civil rights movement has had to go through this

The labor movement had to go through it, as did the black civil rights movement, and, yes, even the feminist movement has had issues of inclusion.

The only internally-consistent method of advocating civil rights is to advocate civil rights for everyone. This may lead to a temporary fracturing of the movement, but ultimately I think we'll be all the better for it.

[dmallind]

15. I'm not sure I see a "this" here

There are plenty of fractures amongst organized atheism, ranging from how much effort to put into tangentially related causes like choice and gay marriage, to the inclusion of agnostics and apatheists, to how much to work with religious potential allies. I'm not sure one guy being a crude horndog and a few people laughing about it - human attributes that will never be eliminated from any large group built around an unrelated issue - should rise to be a great schism or a great need for "soul" searching. Where is the lack of civil rights for everyone that needs to cause even a temporary fracture?

[Act_of_Reparation]

16. I think that's a distortion of what's actually happening

The pro-feminist atheist crowd (for lack of a better descriptor) emerged in part because convention organizers weren't taking the appropriate steps to combat sexual harassment at their events. I certainly agree with you that, ultimately, there's very little you can do to actually combat the legions of Quagmires who attend these events, but there should at least be rational, official protocols in place to deal with this crap when it does happen.

As for the Freethought crowd, I am generally in agreement with them. While it may seem they are expending immense effort dealing with that is tantamount to internet trolling, I think it is important to bear in mind these trolls still make the online atheist community a very unwelcoming place for women. Just standing up to the trolls, however symbolic it may be, could still send a powerful message to women curious about who we are and what we do.

No, we're probably never going to keep the movement clean of the perverts. That doesn't mean we have to like having them around.

[JNelson6563]

17. I told boob jokes but now I don't.

So the author fed into the sexist bullshit for a while, complete with boob jokes and what-not. Then out comes the feminist and she wonders why people have a hard time....

There is something to be said for consistency. I consider myself to be a feminist and guess what, I don't make boob jokes. I find when I go all feminist and stuff people take me seriously.

Some women don't do us any favors, sorry.

Julie

[redqueen]

18. Yes, many women have bought into the "sex positive" nonsense,

and no, it really doesn't help.

This woman had an experience that caused her to realize the problems inherent in it. At least she realized her mistake.

If it's fair to say 'well she wasn't "serious" before so I won't take her seriously now', then we have an awful lot of formerly religious atheists to identify and no longer take seriously.

[JNelson6563]

19. It's fair to say

that her credibility took a hit from the get go. Once that happens, it's a long, hard slog back up credibility mountain.

Julie

[redqueen]

20. It's interesting that more (all?) so-called "sex-positive" feminists

aren't treated as if they lack credibility.

[JNelson6563]

21. I wonder why, you're right. It's interesting.

I know if I meet a woman talking about boobs/boobies or whatever with sophomoric language and sophomoric subject matter, I don't tend to take her too seriously five minutes later, regardless of her religious persuasion.

Mostly when I see women trying to "fit in" by talking that way I wince and wonder why.

Julie

[muriel_volestrangler]

23. Her 'boob joke' was taking the piss out of the ridiculous Iranian cleric

who said that women dressing immodestly brought down the wrath of Allah, in the form of earthquakes. It was being ridiculous to point out an absurdity taken seriously. She named the demonstration 'boobquake'. Are you really going to mark her down permanently for that?

[Evoman]

22. Misogyny is a problem right across the spectrum.

I think religion helps promote it in a lot of ways, but that doesn't mean that non-religious people can't be misogynistic assholes. We need to find it, and point it out, where ever it exists. That's why feminist ideology is so important...it gives us the tools to root out misogyny in our society.

I'm sorry that this women had to be confronted with these attitudes in a community that should know better. As an oppressed minority, and as people who are aware of the pitfalls of religion, we should be more conscious of exclusionary and sexist behaviour. That we aren't is sad. But the world is a shitty place full of shitty people, and being an atheist offers no protection from being a shitty person.