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muriel_volestrangler

(101,361 posts)
Fri Dec 11, 2015, 03:18 PM Dec 2015

German Physicists Reach Milestone In Nuclear Fusion Energy Quest

A German nuclear fusion experiment has produced a special super-hot gas which scientists hope will eventually lead to clean, cheap energy.

The helium plasma - a cloud of loose, charged particles - lasted just a tenth of a second and was about one million degrees Celsius.

It was hailed as a breakthrough for the Max Planck Institute's stellarator - a chamber whose design differs from the tokamak fusion devices used elsewhere.
...
The team at Greifswald, in northeastern Germany, aim in future to heat hydrogen nuclei to about 100 million C - the necessary conditions for fusion to take place like in the Sun's interior. They will use deuterium, a heavier type, or isotope, of the element.

The stellarator's plasma was created on Thursday using a microwave laser, a complex combination of magnets and just 10mg of helium. The Max Planck Institute calls its machine Wendelstein 7-X.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35074848


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German Physicists Reach Milestone In Nuclear Fusion Energy Quest (Original Post) muriel_volestrangler Dec 2015 OP
One has to use deuterium. longship Dec 2015 #1
Deuterium is relatively easy to concentrate, though muriel_volestrangler Dec 2015 #2
Yup! longship Dec 2015 #3
3H, not 3He. nt thereismore Dec 2015 #4
It both works, one reaction throws away a neutron, the other reaction throws away a proton jakeXT Dec 2015 #5
Nice, thanks. nt thereismore Dec 2015 #6
Elemental helium has no neutrons. Angleae Dec 2015 #7
AFAIK, almost all helium has 2 neutrons. longship Dec 2015 #8
On earth yes. In space no. Angleae Dec 2015 #9
Helium-2 is extremely unstable. longship Dec 2015 #10
Beta decay takes care of that. Treant Dec 2015 #11

longship

(40,416 posts)
1. One has to use deuterium.
Fri Dec 11, 2015, 03:29 PM
Dec 2015

Ordinary hydrogen has no neutron with which to make helium, which requires two of them. Deuterium has the required neutron in its nucleus.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,361 posts)
2. Deuterium is relatively easy to concentrate, though
Fri Dec 11, 2015, 03:39 PM
Dec 2015

There's a certain amount of it in all water. It's tritium or helium-3 that are the exotic fusion fuels - you need a nuclear fission reactor, or to go to the moon for the latter.

longship

(40,416 posts)
3. Yup!
Fri Dec 11, 2015, 03:44 PM
Dec 2015

But normal hydrogen is basically useless for fusion. That was my point. Sorry that I did not make that clear. The wording in the article is a bit confusing about that.


Angleae

(4,493 posts)
7. Elemental helium has no neutrons.
Wed Dec 16, 2015, 08:16 AM
Dec 2015

Helium-4 has 2 neutrons. When 2 hydrogen atoms are fused together you get pure helium, whey you fuse 2 deuterium atoms together you get helium-4.

longship

(40,416 posts)
8. AFAIK, almost all helium has 2 neutrons.
Wed Dec 16, 2015, 12:21 PM
Dec 2015

Helium nucleus would not be stable without neutrons. There is no Helium-2 in nature, as far as I know.

I may be wrong on this, but I highly doubt it.

Angleae

(4,493 posts)
9. On earth yes. In space no.
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:00 AM
Dec 2015

Nearly all deuterium is left over from the big bang. Stars are using pure hydrogen in their fusion cores.

longship

(40,416 posts)
10. Helium-2 is extremely unstable.
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 08:09 AM
Dec 2015

Last edited Thu Dec 17, 2015, 02:56 PM - Edit history (3)

It has negative binding energy. It immediately changes to an atom of deuterium via beta-plus decay.

The effective transformation is this:

H1 + H1 -> D2 + e+ + nu + 0.42 MeV

(Sorry, don't know how to type Greek. nu is the electron neutrino. e+ is the positron, D2 is deuterium, heavy hydrogen.)

So, no. Helium-2 is not found in nature. It is only seen in the cores of main sequence stars as part of the fusion process that generates He-4. It is only there as a step which inevitably and instantly leads to Deuterium, which subsequently fuses to He-4.

So I will stand by my posts.

Treant

(1,968 posts)
11. Beta decay takes care of that.
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 04:57 AM
Dec 2015

Usually, in a basic small stellar core (Sun sized or smaller), two hydrogen (simple protons) bang together and fall apart very quickly. Diproton (helium-2) is incredibly unstable. This happens most of the time, with no net energy absorbed or released.

Rarely, one of the protons decays to a neutron, and the diproton becomes deuterium. That's then free to fuse with another hydrogen atom to produce helium-3. Two helium-3 atoms will then fuse to form a helium-4, and release two hydrogen atoms again as well.

That happens often enough to maintain hydrostatic equilibrium of the star. If it didn't, pressures and temperatures would increase until enough diproton had the chance to decay and release enough energy to do so.

Larger stellar cores (just a tiny bit more massive than our Sun and upward) use the CNO (carbon, nitrogen, and oxygen) process primarily instead.

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