German scientists will present new experimental results on the controversial, "impossible" EM Drive

[Ichingcarpenter]

The EM Drive (Electro Magnetic Drive) uses electromagnetic microwave cavities to directly convert electrical energy to thrust without the need to expel any propellant. First proposed by Satellite Propulsion Research, a research company based in the UK founded by aerospace engineer Roger Shawyer, the EM Drive concept was predictably scorned by much of the mainstream research community for allegedly violating the laws of physics, including the conservation of momentum.

However, NASA Eagleworks – an advanced propulsion research group led by Dr. Harold G. “Sonny” White at the Johnson Space Center (JSC) – investigated the EM Drive and presented encouraging test results in 2014 at the 50th Joint Propulsion Conference.

White proposes that the EM Drive’s thrust is due to virtual particles in the quantum vacuum that behave like propellant ions in magneto-hydrodynamical propulsion systems, extracting "fuel" from the very fabric of space-time and eliminating the need to carry propellant. While a number of scientists criticize White's theoretical model, others feel that he is at least pointing to the right direction. The NASASpaceFlight website and forums have emerged as unofficial news source and discussion space for all things related to the EM Drive and related breakthrough space propulsion proposals such as the Cannae Drive.

Shawyer has often been dismissed by the research establishment for not having peer-reviewed scientific publications, but White and Tajmar have impeccable credentials that put them beyond cheap dismissal and scorn. Physics is an experimental science, and the fact that the EM Drive works is confirmed in the lab. "This is the first time that someone with a well-equipped lab and a strong background in tracking experimental error has been involved, rather than engineers who may be unconsciously influenced by a desire to see it work," notes Wired referring to Tajmar's work.




https://hacked.com/scientists-confirm-impossible-em-drive-propulsion/

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

1. If it works, it works, and the science will have to play catch up. nt

[Ichingcarpenter]

2. Three months to Jupiter if it does work

it really would open real exploration and colonization of the solar system if it does.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

3. Holy #$%$&%^*!

I wasn't paying attention to that. Is this a drive that only really works in vacuum, not in atmospheres? And is the three months only to keep the accelerations low enough for humans? Would it be faster with unmanned probes?

[Ichingcarpenter]

6. I've heard of this years ago but this latest news is encouraging.

and not out of the realm of impossibility.


More from NASA

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2015/04/evaluating-nasas-futuristic-em-drive/

[Ichingcarpenter]

13. Moon in four hours

Pluto within 18 months. A trip to Alpha Centauri, which would take tens of thousands of years to reach right now, could be reached in just 100 years.


"Our test campaign cannot confirm or refute the claims of the EM Drive but intends to independently assess possible side-effects in the measurements methods used so far," said Prof Tajmar.

"Nevertheless, we do observe thrust close to the actual predictions after eliminating many possible error sources that should warrant further investigation into the phenomena."

The EM drive has been likened to the Impulse Drive in Star Trek's vessel of choice, the Starship Enterprise

Shawyer also claims that he is just a few months away from publishing new results confirming that his drive works in a peer reviewed journal.
However scientists still have no idea how it actually works. Nasa suggested that it could have something to do with the technology manipulating subatomic particles which constantly pop in and out of existence in empty space.

Prof Tajmer presented his findings to the 2015 American Institute for Aeronautics and Astronautics' Propulsion and Energy Forum and Exposition this week........ https://www.aiaa-propulsionenergy.org/







http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/space/11769030/Impossible-rocket-drive-works-and-could-get-to-Moon-in-four-hours.html

[longship]

4. Sorry, but this is just so wrong on many levels.

Beginning with that it violates the rocket equation and Newton. Just that alone should condemn it to quackery hell.

There are no reaction less drives. No such thing.

[phantom power]

11. If the thing really generates a usable thrust, why is replication so controversial?

It's not a complicated device. If it's a real effect, people should be replicating the experiment left and right. Why the "controversy?"

Based on all the descriptions I've read, I could build one in my garage.

[Ichingcarpenter]

12. Another question....... why are China, Germany, NASA and others

spending time, scientists, materials on this if its quackery.

[phantom power]

14. I would assume it is because...

(a) it is cheap to build and test, so it won't be hard to scrounge a bit of money for a project (b) it's (barely) in the bounds of plausibility, if you wave your hands, mumble something about zero point energy, stand back and squint, and (c) on the off chance it does work, it's obviously high payoff.

I, myself, am very dubious.

[longship]

15. It's like moving your car by pushing on the steering wheel.

Of course, it undoubtedly helps if you voice vroom-vroom sounds.

Alas, I think the rocket equation and Newton's third law still hold and this is bunkum.

[DetlefK]

5. It's not confirmed by far.

http://io9.com/no-german-scientists-have-not-confirmed-the-impossibl-1720573809

The scientists checked for some error-sources and found that it's not them. As the article mentions, they didn't account for errors stemming from the device getting hot, all the while the phenomena indicate a creeping effect like heating.



I cannot overstate how problematic it is that nobody seems to be able to explain the effect theoretically: Every single component and force of nature involved in this device is perfectly understood.
And yet, the device violates the conservation of momentum. And if your momentum isn't conserved, that means somebody is fucking with your space-time-continuum.

[Ichingcarpenter]

8. Hyperjet status

ludicrous speed

[jomin41]

7. Seems simple and obvious enough to me:

"White proposes that the EM Drive’s thrust is due to virtual particles in the quantum vacuum that behave like propellant ions in magneto-hydrodynamical propulsion systems, extracting "fuel" from the very fabric of space-time and eliminating the need to carry propellant."

[DetlefK]

9. Maybe you should lay off Star Trek for a while before you start talking about tachyons.

[Javaman]

10. Hey HEY!

I have the Dylithium Crystals here to prove it! Really...Um, they were just here some...crap, where did I put them...Oh when I find them you will be in big trouble...BIG TROUBLE!!

[Johonny]

16. Tajmar actually did a pretty good job denting holes in the EMdrive

He didn't put the final bullet in it, but I don't many serious scientists that read his paper and saw his presentation instead of the ill informed media hype will invest much time in it.