Alex the counting parrot was even smarter than we thought

[n2doc]

Alex the gray parrot was no ordinary bird. The subject of a thirty-year investigation into avian cognition, by the time he died in 2007, numerous scientific publications had pointed to Alex as proof that a bird's mathematical abilities could be on par with — and even exceed — those of chimps and other non-human primates.

Now, the results of the Alex's last experiment have been published — and the findings are more compelling than ever.

Alex's mathematical prowess has been well documented. The parrot could quantify sets of up to eight items; identify and correctly order Arabic numerals from 1—8; and even sum two sets of objects presented one after the other, so long as their sum total was less than or equal to six.

But an article published in the latest issue of Animal Cognition by animal psychologist Irene Pepperberg — who studied and cared for Alex for over three decades — suggests that Alex was capable of even more impressive mathematical feats.

more
http://io9.com/5887158/alex-the-counting-parrot-was-even-smarter-than-we-thought

[TlalocW]

1. One of my friends has an African Grey

That thing is amazing.

It will sit on his shoulder while he plays games and hiss when enemies appear on the screen. Once when a computerized enemy appeared seemingly out of nowhere, it yelled something like, "Holy fuck shit!" It dances in front of windows to tease cats, and it barks at dogs to confuse them.

TlalocW

[lector]

2. I had a Congo

Gray for many years. He was smart. To smart in fact. The had a 200+ word vocabulary and loved to play with peoples heads.
He would call out to my wife using my voice asking her to come here. He would call me using her voice. He could sound just like a phone,computer. dogs,cats, he even picked up Spanish from my best friend.He had the ability to not just mimic the words but had the tone variances so perfect you could not tell the difference. He loved to do a wolf whistle when ever a girl walked by.
More than once I had to point and say " hey it was the bird" once a body builder did not believe it but fortunately he did it again as a young woman passed us. I miss Gandolf more than I would have believed possible. He caught a cold and died within a week. He was only 22 years old.

[TlalocW]

6. Is Gandolf a popular name for them?

that's what my friend calls his.

TlalocW

[TheMadMonk]

20. ...The Grey. So what else? /nt

[TlalocW]

25. But why Gandolf instead of Gandalf?

Don't get it.

TlalocW

[applegrove]

9. LOL! I did not know birds were so funny.

[Yooperman]

3. Grays are special and Alex

was exceptional. I once saw Ms. Pepperberg speak to the members of an Avian association I once belonged too. She was a remarkable researcher with very sound, thorough and convincing methods showing how Alex understood and responded appropriately to a variety questions and challenges.

She said once Alex was getting tired of the testing and the series of multiple choice questions that he had been given ... he answered 100% incorrectly. she said it was statistically impossible to be wrong on 100% of the questions. He understood the correct answer and purposely chose a wrong answer, showing he was getting tired of it all.

Alex was a ground breaking parrot that showed that for some parrots at least, they understand and can communicate with humans like no other animal.

At the time I had an African Gray Timneh (a sub-species) and he wasn't a talker but was a very bright and affectionate pet that had fun chasing our Labrador Retriever around the house. He couldn't fly...but would climb down from the top of the cage... onto the couch... down to the floor and walk across the room and start chasing our dog. It was such a funny sight to see such a small animal put fear into a much larger animal. She would also hang upside down from her cage door when it was open and wait for the dog to come by the cage and try to bite her tail. She had to go by the cage to get into the next room.


to Alex and all bird lover everywhere.

[flamingdem]

4. Viva Alex! Braaaak

[harmonicon]

5. I think there's something very tragic about this story.

Was he "no ordinary bird," or was he just a normal example of his species? He contributed a lot to science, but not by choice. He clearly was able to demonstrate sentience and free will. Would we treat a human this way?

[Yooperman]

7. I am not quite sure what your meaning is?

Treat a human this way? He was a captive bred bird. He was not taken from the wild. He enjoyed interacting with humans... just as a dog or a cat would.

He was not mistreated... and to your other question was he a normal example of the species?

I feel he was an exceptional bird... just as we have humans that are more intelligent than others... he was more intelligent than most Grays. Even the famous Congo Grays sometimes will not learn to talk. My uncle had a hand fed baby and his Congo was very talkative and communicated with my uncle. His bird understood what he was referring to and to those that say they only imitate haven't studied the topic enough to understand how wrong they are.

Having had what I now believe was a wild caught Gray and although he was a sub-species, was very intelligent and loving bird. I would never have a wild caught bird now that I understand more about them. He talked very little... every once in awhile he would blurt out a word in context and never again say it. I woke up one morning and he said as clear as a bell.."Good Morning" ... he never again said those words as long as I had him... once I was doing some paperwork for my job and I had the muted the sound as I was concentrating... a kitten was shown on the screen and he "meowed" He obviously knew the sound that a kitten made...and again he never meowed ever again.

I think it had something to do with being a wild caught bird than being a hand fed baby.

Anyway... many animals when treated properly love being around humans and interacting with us. If you have had any pet that you loved must know this and having heard Ms. Pepperberg speak and then talk to our group she truly loved loved Alex and was deeply affected when he died as any pet owner would be that lost a part of their family.

YM

[flamingdem]

11. They were bonded in my opinion

Those birds bond once only and seem to bond with humans when there is no other bird of their kind around. My experience is that those bonds are pretty profound. It is not right to capture birds in the wild, but it's not without positive aspects.

[Yooperman]

12. You are correct....

Birds bond to one person ...but you are incorrect that they can't bond more than once. As my post stated I had a Gray (Timneh not Congo) I bought him not understanding where he came from and I do suspect he was a wild caught bird but I wasn't ever able to confirm that. He had been bought by a man from a private individual for breeding purposes. He had him for 5 years... then I bought him. He bonded with me without any problems.

I had him for 5 years b4 I had some life changes and I sold him to my best friend and then he bonded with him. My friend passed away a few years ago and however his wife still has him and is doing fine after 13 years with them. We don't know how long the first owners had him but just with what I know... he is well over 20 years old now.

The bird didn't seem to have any problems making adjustments to his own life changes. This to me also shows intelligence. However, I do know some parrots do not adapt well with the human environment. Feather plucking is the most common problem that afflicts birds and this can happen to either hand fed babies or wild caught. However, feather plucking has never been witnessed in the wild as far as I know. So each bird is an individual and can have issues no matter how well intentioned the owner has been.

I also agree about wild caught birds. I would never own one or support a person or organization that captured birds from the wild. There are plenty of private breeders now that are very successful in raising hand fed babies and they are acclimated to the human environment from the very start and have less issues or problems because of it.

YM

[flamingdem]

13. Just wondering if

you would get another one.

I want to do so but of course you don't know what you've got and it's a big commitment
-- but I like the idea of hand fed. The greys are on the large side, that would be a lot of work but worth it for the intelligence factor.

I shared a Red Naped Amazon parrot with my sister, she was the primary caretaker, and he seemed to treat her like "mom" and me like "girlfriend"! He would do a special dance for me with the pupils going in/out and the wings stretched and bobbing. I miss him, aw, but it wasn't easy, especially the escapes, attacking my paint tubes with his beak, eating watches, screens, he was wild caught as a baby.

[Yooperman]

15. That is a great question....

I really would love to have another parrot. However, you are 100% correct in that it is a huge commitment. At the moment I am renting a small apartment... and there just isn't room for a cage large enough for to adequately handle a large parrot... not a Macaw but a Congo.

Even the Nimnah sub-subspecies of Gray which is a bit smaller would need a larger cage and an area that he could have a play stand and such.

I have had small dogs... large dogs... now a great cat... lived on a farm with pigs, chickens, ducks, geese, cows, horses...and none are as compelling to me as a parrot.

Your comment about flying... I lost a Blue Headed Conure who I loved dearly.... I had kept its wings clipped ...but they grew in and I didn't realize he could fly... I was walking into the elementary school my daughter attended to show him to her class. As I was walking into the school a kid came running out and startled my conure... off he went... once flying.. he flew to the top of a 100 foot elm and I couldn't coax him down. That was a serious lesson in bird care...I know of a guy from my hometown... that had a parrot...not sure what kind... but he had taken it back to the store where he bought it for a nail trim and wing clip... he had it on his shoulder walking out of the shop and off it went.. straight down on the road in front of the store and a car ran over him. Sad but true.

They are messy.... need special diets... and most of all need a lot of attention. But you know that since your Sister had a parrot. The rewards are amazing as they interact like no other pet...

If youi do decide to get a bird... do your homework.. don't buy a bird unless there is proper documentation that it was domestically born and raised. The conure I had was wild caught I am sure of it now.... he tamed down and bonded with me but it was stressful for him and me as we learned to trust each other.

Also if cost is a factor... I can recommend conures... they are a nice alternative to a larger parrot...

Anyway..good luck and email me if you ever do buy one.. I would love to hear how thing work out for you.

Peace

YM

[flamingdem]

22. Thanks for the conure idea

I will keep in touch on this for sure, it might take a couple of years to create the conditions for life with a bird.

By the way when my sister's parrot escaped we found out where he was and the fire department came and got him to come down out of a tree. I can't exactly remember how this resolved itself, I think he might have flown down upon seeing the giant red helmeted parrots coming to get him!

[Bigmack]

23. i used to let my (feather-clipped) African grey perch outside

while I gardened, and one day....he flew away! Obviously his feathers had grown back un-noticed. I saw what direction he flew, ran after him, fell down because I was looking at where he was flying rather than watching my feet(!), and I saw him land in a bunch of distant trees. I didn't see exactly where he landed, and screamed at my husband to help me find him. My husband came out and tried to help me for a while to locate him, and then went back in the house, which steamed me! Then he came back out with our portable phone, and I'm screaming at him about why he'd bring a phone to a parrot hunt.....and he pushed the ring-back function, the phone "rang" and the parrot CLEARLY said, "Hello." Ring back again, hello again, and WE FOUND HIM! And when I scrambled up the tree he was in, he climbed onto my hand, and went back home! BUT HE NEVER AGAIN GOT TO PERCH OUTSIDE WHILE I GARDENED! Ms Bigmack

[flamingdem]

24. Excuse me but I'm not sure I understand

Ring back? All I can think is that your parrot had a cell phone!

Or his ring was recorded so he answered?

That's too funny!!

brraaack hello he he

[Bigmack]

28. It's easy.....

In the house, when the phone rang, he'd ALWAYS cheerily say,"hello...." and sometimes he'd launch into his own little conversation..."How are you, whatcha doing...you OK?" So when the old man "rang" the phone outside, and the parrot did "his" (turns out he's a she!) "hello" thing, "all" we had to do was "follow the sound of his hello" and there he was, up in the tree!

[flamingdem]

30. This is so funny!

Thanks for this story, I can absolutely imagine this nutty episode.

[Yooperman]

29. What a great ending to what could have been a devastating event...

kudos to your husband for thinking on his feet. I am so glad you had a happy ending.

Thanks for sharing...

YM

[harmonicon]

14. What my meaning is?

My meaning is to question whether or not it's ok to enslave an intelligent creature for research.

You cannot compare these animals to dogs or cats. Those are domesticated animals which live - by design - symbiotically with human beings.

He also was not treated as a pet, but as a specimen in scientific research. He lived in a laboratory, not a house. He was not allowed outside. This is an intelligent creature that was kept captive against its will. That's what I mean. Would you think it was ok to treat a person that way because you wanted to learn about them?

[Yooperman]

16. Understood....

However I disagree to a certain point. Yes he was studied and lived in a research facility but he was far from being abused in any way. He was a hand fed baby... he was domesticated. He couldn't survive outside on his own. Parrots as with any animal that are raised around humans love to interact with those that they consider "family" and I am sure Alex was the same. As I had posted ... I have heard Ms. Pepperberg speak and I have talked with her personally. She cared a great deal for Alex and how could she one when she had him for 30 years.

So I don't agree with you that he was enslaved. That was his environment that he was raised in and in my opinion probably was better treated than most pets of any kind.

With that being said... I respect your opinion I just don't completely agree with it.

Peace

YM

[harmonicon]

19. I'm not even sure that I have an opinion about it - it just raises these questions in my mind.

I think it comes down to this: what is our threshold for empathy? Of course that's going to be different for every person, but we also decide as a society for some things.

For instance, Alex was - in many ways - more clever than a small child, but we'd afford even a brain-dead child more rights, simply because s/he is human. We do however seem to have more empathy for smarter animals/species than dumb ones. Why is that? Sure, reading about Alex is fascinating, but it's a special kind of fascinating, don't you think?

[Yooperman]

21. Yes it is... because he actually communicated with humans

more on our terms. But Koko the Gorilla also communicated thru sign language and showed gorillas also are more like us than we ever imagined.

Also your point about treating less intelligent animals differently. This is how it has always been... I lived on a farm and raised our stock with love and attention. Yet when fall came... and we needed to fill the freezer we went out and slaughtered a pig or a cow. Ones that we had raised since their birth.

At the time I didn't really think about it. We needed to survive and this is how we did it and if I had to do it again I would.

Now there is a debate about the use of horse meat and some cultures think nothing of eating dog meat.

Yet most of America finds killing these animals for food disgusting and some would say immoral.

There are no easy answers... yet we are just animals ourselves. Most feel the most intelligent on the planet. Does that mean we have authority over all other living things.

I guess when I think about it... being the human animal that we are, we are evolving as we always have been and interaction between species is just part of the experience of living on the planet Earth.
But when does that evolution change our actions because of a sense morality.

Many people quit eating meat because they realize that all animal consciousnesses should be respected.

How far do we take it... now we realize taking birds out of the wild is "immoral". Will we then reach a point that we have zero interaction with other species other than watching from a distance.

No easy answers...

Peace

YM

[TheMadMonk]

26. Might it be more morally wrong NOT to interfere?

Why not bootstrap the species to an even higher intelligence level by breeding the more intelligent birds together?

[harmonicon]

27. Extending that logic leads to doing that with/to people. nt.

[TheMadMonk]

31. Taken a look about lately? Couldn't hurt. /nt

[Yavapai]

8. We have five African Greys.

Each has their own distinct personality and we have this many so that they can be African greys in a flock. They interact with each other and us. They are amazing animals to say the least.

The oldest is "Jake". We bought him from a family who just didn't have time for him and was looking for a loving home for him. I say him because that is what the people told us he was. But after about five years, she laid four eggs. She is now 37 years of age. She is a one person bird who will bite anyone who tries to hold her except me. She has a large vocabulary. She used to say hello when I would come into the room and would say bye bye when it was bedtime. One day she started saying bye-bo instead (I think she was trying to extend bedtime.)

The next is "Cheeky". She was hatched from a mated pair we had as the next three are. cheeky is very smart and can imitate almost any sound that she hears. It was a nightmare when my employer required me to carry a beeper to respond to my work, as she would exactly imitate the sound after about two weeks. I at one time had three beepers that were switched into and out of service to try and outsmart her. She can imitate my voice and my wife's voice exactly. She whistles for the dog and now the dog won't respond to anyone whistling at all.

Next is "Crisco", named because he will eat anything and lots of it. I thought Crisco sounded better than "lard-ass!" He thinks that he is leader of the flock (including us) and struts his stuff, always!!!

After him, we have "Shadow", named because she follows my wife everywhere she goes. She is a very loving bird who soaks up and gives affection to anyone who will respond. She is mischievous and waits until the right time to fly down behind her favorite chair and pull threads from the carpet (not my wife's wishes at all.) When caught in the act she immediately flies through the entire house then back to her chair and tries to look like the angel she wants us to see her as.

The last is "Embee". She is vying to lead the flock and tries to kick Crisco's butt on a regular basis. She is very smart and loves to dance to music. Not just any music, but only with women singing country music, but with one exception, She does like the Country comedian Rodney Carrington. I can tell you that this bird has no taste at all in music!!!

You might ask, "what can I tell you after three decades of living with African grey parrots?"

Number one is that you must be very dedicated to caring for them properly.

Second is their favorite food is fried chicken wings (at least ours) and they must be caged during super bowl parties!!!!

Third is (contrary to every book we have read about them) they are not poisoned by eating chocolate. Ours eat M&M with peanuts often.

The forth is that when ranching (hatching out birds for sale) is, never to name them as they then become part of the family and who of us can put our kids up for sell?

Also to note that they are the sub-species Congo. From what I have seen, the Congo and the Timneh both seem to be the same but the Timneh is a little smaller and the tail feathers are a slightly different shade of red.

If you ever decide to bring an African grey into your life, be prepared to be with a pet that probably will outlive you. So make sure you have relatives who also would like to be with them, because in all probability, they, at some time will.

[Mnemosyne]

10. Your post got me laughing out loud, Yavapai! Your feathered family sounds wonderful. How cool of you

to keep a flock atmosphere for them.

Thank you for sharing!

[Yooperman]

17. Awesome..

I am very envious of you ... It must be a none stop circus with 5 grays around. It would be like having 5 toddlers that never grow up... Always getting into things and testing their boundaries.

I would love to visit you sometime and meet your "flock family".

Peace and thanks for sharing your experience with them...

YM