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dipsydoodle

(42,239 posts)
Wed Jan 1, 2014, 12:59 PM Jan 2014

Advanced Imaging Reveals a Computer 1,500 Years Ahead of Its Time



X-rays and advanced photography have uncovered the true complexity of the mysterious Antikythera mechanism, a device so astonishing that its discovery is like finding a functional Buick in medieval Europe.

In 1900, some divers found the wreck of a Roman vessel off the Greek island of Antikythera. Among the other treasures remanded to the Greek government was an unassuming corroded lump. Some time later, the lump fell apart, revealing a damaged machine of unknown purpose, with some large gears and many smaller cogs, plus a few engraved words in Greek. Early studies suggested it was some type of astronomical time-keeping device – researcher Derek J. de Solla Price laid the groundwork by establishing initial tooth counts and suggesting that the device followed the Metonic cycle, a 235-month pattern commonly used to predict eclipses in the ancient world.

The full function and beauty of the Antikythera device remained hidden until recent studies subjected it to more advanced imaging techniques. First, it was photographed using a technique that exposed the surfaces to varying lighting patterns. This created different levels of contrast that allowed the researchers to read far more of the inscribed Greek text than was previously possible. Then, x-ray imaging was used to create full 3-D computer models of the mechanism, which revealed for the first time some of the more complex and detailed gear interactions. The Greek National Archaeological Museum's discovery of some boxes filled with 82 additional mechanism fragments added new information as well.

The findings, published in Nature, are probably best described as "mind blowing." Devices with this level of complexity were not seen again for almost 1,500 years, and the Antikythera mechanism's compactness actually bests the later designs. Probably built around 150 B.C., the Antikythera mechanism can perform a number of functions just by turning a crank on the side.

http://io9.com/advanced-imaging-reveals-a-computer-1-500-years-ahead-o-1492104535
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Advanced Imaging Reveals a Computer 1,500 Years Ahead of Its Time (Original Post) dipsydoodle Jan 2014 OP
That's astounding. More proof of aliens? catbyte Jan 2014 #1
Not aliens dipsydoodle Jan 2014 #2
Lol. We're all doomed if they evolve opposable thumbs. catbyte Jan 2014 #3
Too Late: freshwest Jan 2014 #6
I enjoyed the debate in the comments. hollysmom Jan 2014 #4
budget cuts, of course MisterP Jan 2014 #5
Totally awesome. nt riqster Jan 2014 #7
I believe this mechanism was reported earlier last decade. happyslug Jan 2014 #8
nice post joshcryer Jan 2014 #9
Kinda looks like my hard drive, at the moment yuiyoshida Jan 2014 #10
Great article thanks! on point Jan 2014 #11

hollysmom

(5,946 posts)
4. I enjoyed the debate in the comments.
Wed Jan 1, 2014, 03:07 PM
Jan 2014

It is kind of sad to think there are always geniuses in every generation that don't have the opportunity or are dismissed by bigots or people who don't want to see change.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
8. I believe this mechanism was reported earlier last decade.
Thu Jan 2, 2014, 03:33 PM
Jan 2014

Last edited Thu Jan 2, 2014, 09:39 PM - Edit history (1)

The Mechanism itself was found in 1900, but it took till the 1990s and past 2000 to determined how it worked. For centuries we have had a description of an Archimedes device, used by the Romans, to measure miles. We had the description of the device and over the years people have tried to build models of it but no one could get it to work. X-Rays of this device finally solve what the problem was. Since the Middle ages when we built cogs The teeth of each Cog are square for strength and durably. In these ancient devices all of the teeth are triangle (i.e pointed at the end of each tooth, not the flat surface on a modern cog teeth). Once this was known they made a copy of Archimedes device to measure distances and it worked.

Here is a post Middle Age type gear:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gear

The gear teeth were in the form of equilateral triangles with an average circular pitch of 1.6 mm, an average wheel thickness of 1.4 mm and an average air gap between gears of 1.2 mm. They were probably created from a blank bronze round using hand tools; this is evident because they are not all divided very evenly.[30] Due to advances in imaging and X-ray technology it is now possible to know the precise number of teeth and size of the gears within the located fragments. Thus the basic operation of the device is no longer a mystery and has been accurately replicated. The major unknown now regards the presence and nature of any planet indicators.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism

This difference in teeth may explain why this this disappeared. Being made of bronze or brass the triangle teeth are easier to break then the square teeth of modern cogs. Modern Gears/Cogs came out of the need for huge wheels to move items up and down the Cathedrals of the Middle Ages. These were made out of wood and since wood is NOT as hard or durable as metal, square Gears/cogs were installed instead of triangle teeth. As these devices were down sized for other purposes, the concept of square teeth stayed with the down sizing, right down to the inner workings of Watches, and the various attempts to remake the Roman Measuring device.

Side note: When the Western Roman Empire Fell around 450 AD, the Trebuchet had been introduced from China by the Avars. The Trebuchet was the premier siege weapon on the Dark ages and Middle ages right up to and overlapping early cannon (Cortes even had one built for the Siege of Mexico City in 1521). These devices used ratcheting devices based on cogs and teeth, that prevented back ward movement as the weight was pulled upward. These ratcheting devices were square for they had to be made out of wood. Thus the end of such devices may have come about by the introduction of the Trebuchet and its ratcheting devices.


Second Side Note: The Slavic invasions of the Sixth Century was the movement of FARMERS (not herders as the earlier Germanic and Hunnic tribes had been) that relied on IRON tools, made from iron produced in Iron Furnaces first developed in China in the 3rd century c 250 AD. Greece and Rome had a very primitive method of making Iron compared to the Chinese. The Slavs brought with them the Chinese Iron Making Furnace, and its related tools Iron and Steel Tools (Rome and Greece tended to use Wooden and Bronze tools, such as spades and shovels saving their iron and Steel for cutting tools, such as axes and scythes). The Slavs used Iron Spades, Shovels, the Heavy Iron Plow, because the Iron Furnace permitted them to have them made (and if you want to work ground, that had been frozen during Winter, you need Iron Tools. You do NOT need iron tools for work in Mediterranean type climates, but north of the Alps you need those tools.

The Slavs used their access to iron and iron tools to push westward as far as the Elbe River in present day Germany and deep into modern day Greece (One slavic tribe reached England and from that Tribe we get the English word "Plow&quot . This expansion of Iron usage, along with the Heavy Iron Plow, the Horse Shoe, the Horse Collar and widespread adoption of ball bearings are traced to the Dark Ages, when most inventions benefited the lower half of the economy as opposed to the top 3%, which had been the case during Roman and Greek times. Somehow the Heavy Iron Plow made it way to the Ukraine from China by the Sixth Century, and from they the Slavs took it all over Europe outside the Mediterranean.

Except for the movement from China to the Ukraine, we can trace the use of the heavy Iron Plow with Slavic movement, including the movement of one Slavic tribe to present day England. Northern Europe, do to the Iron plow, switched from being pasture land to farm land, during one of the coldest period in known history. Herding is done in areas to dry, or to far north to farm. In Roman and Greece time farming was south of the Alps (and with the cold weather starting in the 200s, Farming seems to have moved South). The use of the Heavy Iron Plow opened up most of the North to Farming, even when the ground freezes during the winter.

http://people.exeter.ac.uk/RBurt/exeteronly/HEC2016/Lecture67.htm

The speed the Heavy Iron Plow took over Northern Europe, is a comment on the ability of people in the lower half of the economy to move about and spread ideas among the common people. Compare the fast pace of the Heavy Iron Plow and the Iron Furnace, with the Spread of the Water Wheel. The Water Wheel was known in present day Turkey by the 3rd century BC, but only moved across Europe slowly, so that it did not reach present day France till the AFTER the fall of the Western Roman Empire. People have traced the movement of the Water Wheel, it is a slow steady movement west, almost county by county as peasants saw what was working next door and adopted it for they own use. The Plow shows up as Slavs marched south and West starting about 570 and ending about 650 AD. As you can see a much faster movement of the invention then the earlier Water Wheel during the height of the Roman Empire.

This was the main problem of the Ancient Greeks and Romans, low care for the lower classes. Rome actually had a good record till the Punic Wars turned Rome into a World Power (See the War of the Classes for details):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secessio_plebis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_of_the_Orders#The_end_of_the_Conflict_of_the_Orders_.28367-287_BCE.29

The problem for the Roman Peasant as Rome became more and more powerful, that ended up strengthening the upper classes, including members of the plebeians who had made money. The Punic war made strengthen the Roman elite even more, so that by the end of the Punic War, the poor of Rome could no longer just leave Rome to protest the laws of Rome. During the Empire the plight of the poor declined further, it is only with the Dark Ages that the rights of peasants increased. Thus during the late Republic and Empire you saw more and more of these expensive toys, then as the Empire Collapsed these toys disappeared as the classes became more equal economically.




Given that these were toys, intended as presents to other rich men to impress them, such devices in the Ancient World were NOT tied in with normal construction but making such devices in and by themselves. Once the demand for such devices fell below a level that the makers could make money, they died out. A good modern comparison would be the typewriter. Try to find a NEW commercial level Typewriter today. You will not find one, for no one wants it any more, even through in real terms, some of these high end typewriters of the mid 20th century cost more then the computers we are using today. No demand for a product, production of that produce will end.

Complicating this is that during the end of the Western Roman Empire, the Mediterranean for the first time in almost 1000 years ceased to be the super highway of Europe. The Greeks and Tyre fought over dominance of the Mediterranean during the Greek Golden Age. This fight ended with Alexander the Great took Tyre in 332 BC, it then became a Carthaginian Lake given the support Carthage reserved from Rome after 332 BC against the Greeks in Sicily. The Mediterranean remained a Carthaginian Lake till the First Punic War (264 to 241 BC) when Rome built a fleet the wiped out the Carthaginian Navy and made the Mediterranean a Rome Lake (Thus Hannibal in the Second Punic War had to invade Italy via Spain and Gaul (present day France). Hannibal could NOT sail to Italy for Rome Controlled the sea. When Carthage called Hannibal back home to defend Carthage, Rome let it be known that they did NOT object to any Greek or other ship helping him vacate Italy, as long as he left Italy. The Romans ten defeated Hannibal at the Battle of Zama, and Carthage survive another 50 years (and be rebuilt about 100 years after it was destroyed and became the third largest city in the Roman Empire, behind Rome and Alexandria) Carthage NEVER challenge Roman dominance of the Sea after Hannibal, and no one else did till the Vandals took Carthage in 439 AD,

The Mediterranean Sea remained a Roman Lake till the Vandals took Carthage in 439 AD (Through the Vandal invasion of modern day Tunisia started in 429 AD). This taking of Tunisia cut the Mediterranean in half for the first time since the day of Alexander The Great almost 800 years before. Mediterranean wide trade just came to a halt, and with it the end of the demand for trade goods. This is best seen in Vases of the time period. Prior to about 450 AD, fancy vases are everywhere in the Mediterranean Area and the Roman Empire, then you see a rapid decline for these fancy vases were only produced in just a few areas within the Empire, and with trade dead, everyone had to revert to local production of much poorer quality. Thus you have graves after 450 AD, with fancy gold work, the equal to any production prior to 450 AD, next to home made vases and very low quality when compared to vases used prior to 450 AD. The reason is trade, the local gold work could be done locally, the fancy vases could NOT be.

The same with anything else that needed a steady but widespread demand to keep production up and that would include items like this Computer. You do not make one, unless you think you can sell it, and if you have NOT sold the one in your shop over the last 20 years for everyone who could afford it locally has one, you do not make more. Worse, this was probably a gift to some foreign leader, once Rome was an empire the Emperors would continue to send such gifts, but they ran across a problem with Attila the Hun, he wanted only gold and he insisted on eating on Wooden Plates not fancy dinner ware, to show his contempt for the riches of Rome (i.e. such a gift would be wasted on someone like Attila). Thus the demand for such items declined probably after Augustus Caesar succeeded Julian Crease in 44 BC. What demand survived Rome becoming an Empire (with limited opposition on its frontiers, thus Imperial demand for such gifts dried up) disappeared with the Destruction of Mediterranean wide trade starting in 429 AD.

Remember Rome was NOT destroyed by Christianity, but by its own internal stresses that came to a head do to the cooling of the Planet after about 220 AD (with a slight upturn in Temperatures in the 300s). Cold temperature lead to migration, and thus the barbarian invasions of the 200s, and again in the 400s (with the invasions of the 200s being more survive then in the warmer 400s, with the 300s between those two in temperatures). Finally the big drop in temperatures from 570 (When the Lombard's invaded Italy and took it from the Eastern Roman Empire) to 630 AD and the Arab invasion (which had followed the Iranian invasion of about 600, which the Eastern Empire defeated and as a result the Persian Empire was destroyed). Barbarians were push south do to increase cold weather, and that put Rome in their path and thus the problems Rome had at that time period (and that Rome's adoption of Christianity was NOT its death call, but its last effort to survive by bringing everyone within the Empire into one, given the nature of that Empire, that unifying force could NOT be language, nationality or the use of Force to keep everyone in the Empire but religion and thus the fight over which version of Christianity should be the one religion of the Empire.

http://www.co2science.org/subject/d/summaries/dacpeurope.php



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2000_Year_Temperature_Comparison.png

By the 300s it was clear Rome could no longer use Force to keep the Empire united. Crops were NOT as production as they had been 200 years before, thus you had less revenue to pay for the Army. Given that barbarian were hitting the Gates of the Empire, Rome needed to try to keep its citizens loyal, i.e. not joining the Barbarians against the Empire. Given that 30% of the population spoke languages related to modern Arabic (and Ancient Egyptian), 30% spoke Greek and 40% spoke Latin (and this is among the elite, the peasants, 97% of the population were even more diverse in languages) you could NOT have a common language to unite people for they was no real common language. Rome had in 212 AD declared anyone living in the Empire a Citizen, thus the promise of Citizen could no longer to used to get people to think as one people, Rome had several nationality, but no one any where near the majority thus not a unifying concept. Thus only Religion was left, and Rome then Embrace the one Religion used by its three main language Speakers, and that was Christianity.

Thus the same forces that lead to the end of such devices also ushered in Christianity is a concept people have a problem in accepting, they prefer that one drove out the other, not that outside forced, forces one out and the other into popularity.
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