So if you accept that God made the universe and everything in it ...

[Kablooie]

And God is eternal.

Then what hell was he doing all those gazillion years before he made the heavens and the earth? Just sitting around in an empty void staring at nothing?

[rug]

1. There is no "before" in eternity.

[Kablooie]

2. But there is a before when you have a "beginning"

And of course there is a before when you define 7 specific days.

[rug]

3. Assuming you're posting here in sincerity,

the act of creation is the beginning of time. It's a common philosophical concept that eternity itself is outside of time and space. Hence, there is no "before".

If you're posting here you should have known that Catholics do not understand creation to have occurred in "7 specific days." The fact that you asked that question in this safe haven group suggests to me your question is not sincere.

[Kablooie]

4. I'm kind of split as to whether I'm sincere or not.

I was raised Episcopalian myself and we never took the bible literally.
It was always considered to be metaphors, folk tales, philosophical thoughts and historical incidents all mixed together. The beginning of Genesis was never taken literally.

I know people here have wide ranging views on religion and there may be some who tend towards a more to a literal interpretation. I was just wondering for someone who thought of God as an eternal sentient being, if the concept of what God did before he made everything has ever been contemplated.

(And now that you mention it, the Catholicism group may not have been the best place to post this. Oh well. )

[rug]

5. They're interesting ideas.

I've never met a Catholic who took the creation stories in Genesis literally, although I expect there are some. AFAIK, the Church allows a divergence of views on it but, for all practical purposes, it is not taught as a literal account.

Personally, I'm grappling with the notion of polygenism, the evolution of human groups independently, versus all human descent from a single pair. Pius XII in his encyclical Humani Generis saw no theological contradiction between creation by God and evolution but insisted polygenism would be contradictory to the notion that at one point God intervened in the process and instilled unique humanity in two individuals from whom we all descend. I'm not so sure that holds water

Here it is if you're interested:

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_12081950_humani-generis_en.html

By all means stick around if you like. The main difference betwee here and the Religion Group is that these subjects can be discussed without the gamesmanship and bullshit that invariably ensues.

[Kablooie]

6. To me, applying any kind motive or action to "God" ...

is simpleminded and nonsensical.

If an entity that exists and could be considered "God" it would be so far beyond any human comparisons that to talk of motives or consciousness would be to demean it.

We might contemplate with awe something that created all the infinite complexity of the universe but I don't think applying any human traits, physical or mental, would have any validity. That is simply egotistical humans trying to equate themselves with this awesome entity.

[rug]

7. I agree it's beyond comprehension but if it does?

What appeals to me about Christianity is that it teaches there is indeed a God, that it is a God of unconditional love, and that the God became one of us, the only way we could encounter God. The manger and the cross are potent statements.

I think I know where you're coming from and if I thought my intellectual capacity was the way to measure God I'd be sitting there next to you.

[rustbeltvoice]

9. "main difference..."

So that's it?

There be active trolls in certain portions of Democratic Underground.

I can not see why. They are a cross between secret police and vandals.

I look at Doonesbury on the 'web', and there are resident trolls there. After all these years, one cannot be surprised about Gary Trudeau's strip. Why come there and shit in the punch bowl?

I think there is a distinction between people with strong views and open natures, and mean spirited jerks.

[rug]

10. Just about.

Trolling doesn't last in this Group.

[IrishAyes]

13. If you came to cross wits with Rug, Fortinbras, and quite a few others,

You're overmatched.

With me you might have a chance? but not the rest of them.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

8. Augustine of Hippo mentions in his Confessions

That the same question came up in a discussion he was having with some people. He says that one man replied "God was making hell for people who ask questions like that." Augustine goes on to say that while he appreciates a witty comeback, he thinks it was a flippant response to a serious question.

Augustine opines that one of the things God created at the beginning of the universe was time. God is outside time, and so the question is actually meaningless.

[goldent]

11. I think the big bang theory

say that nothing existed before the big bang, no space or time. That is difficult to comprehend.

[IrishAyes]

14. That's not what the big bang theory says, quite. For instance, science declares that even in our

demented age, matter can neither be created nor destroyed, only changed. Therefore, SOMETHING had to exist to fuel the Big Bang. Try to remember what MLK said; there is no conflict between science and religion. The one addresses how, the other, why. Stir the pot however you will, there's no real fight between the two.

[IrishAyes]

12. Someday you'll get to ask that very question if you still want.

But Joseph Campbell said when that time comes, we'll forget our questions because they'll all be answered anyway, and we'll have better things to do than to dwell on inconsequential matters.

[hrmjustin]

15. He was playing poker with the devil.