Vatican synod addressing issue of lapsed Catholics

[rug]

Peter Smith, The (Louisville, Ky.) Courier-JournalShare7 Comment

2:39PM EST October 8. 2012 - WASHINGTON -- The expression "preaching to the converted" takes on new meaning this week, as select bishops from around the world embark on a monthlong synod in Rome.

Their mission: Help the Roman Catholic Church confront the reality that one of its biggest mission fields is among its own members. Millions of lapsed Catholics, especially in the United States and other Western countries have joined other religious groups or become so jaded and indifferent that they might be called nonbelievers, according to a working document for the gathering.

The synod for "The New Evangelization for the Transmission of the Christian Faith" -- which is having its first working session Monday and runs through Oct. 28 -- will include reports from experts and discussions among about 250 bishops and other high-ranking prelates.

Its work ultimately will lead to an authoritative document produced by Pope Benedict XVI, who has frequently touted the importance of "new evangelization."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/10/08/vatican-synod-addressing-issue-of-lapsed-catholics/1620561/

[Angry Dragon]

1. Perhaps if they just grew up then they would not have to hunt for Catholics

So maybe there are not as many Catholics that we are told ............

[rug]

2. If who grew up?

Perhaps you're in the wrong place.

[olegramps]

6. Is that your best response? Rather lame at best.

[rug]

7. Do you know who he's talking about?

[hedgehog]

3. I've been debating whether to post about this or not - but

after a long, long struggle, I decided that if I wanted to follow the core of Church teachings, I had to leave the Roman Catholic Church. I don't consider myself to be lapsed; rather I consider the Pope, cardinals and bishops to have lost their way. I'll be attending Mass at the local Episcopal Church (or as the priest refers to it, the local English Catholic Church!) I guess that makes me a Protestant. What Cromwell and famine couldn't accomplish, Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict did!

[rug]

4. Good luck.

[hedgehog]

5. Thank you!

[mykpart]

8. I'm pessimistic.

If the Pope's attitude so far is any predictor, he has stated that a smaller more orthodox church would suit him better. I don't expect the Church to do anything but threaten lapsed Catholics with excommunication or "penalty of moral sin." I don't expect any real effort to address the reasons that Catholics have left the Church. I've thought about leaving, and the main reason I stay is that Benedict is the 6th Pope in my lifetime, and I still hope for another John XXIII. I still believe that God's plan for His people will eventually triumph over the plans of the Vatican and the Curia.

[rug]

9. Bishops keep emphasizing that Catholics are poorly catechized, that we don't understand our faith.

That gives me optimism. Because the more we know of it, the more we will understand how the bishops are unduly extending their authority and in how few areas they can authoritatively preach. The Achilles heel of the modern church, among other things, is its understanding of sexuality. So many problems flow from this. Instead of applying Christ's message and using it to illuminate these issues, the bishops are falling into doctrinaire, rigid -and wrong - pronouncements that do anything but proclaim the good news. The Church has a long history and I expect a more open and authentic Church will emerge on the other side of this present time.

Frankly, we have no other choice but to hope this will come about. After all, The Church teaches two promises: that the Holy Spirit indeed guides this Church and that Jesus Christ is in His Church. I am a believer and this too I believe.

[mykpart]

12. There was so much I did not know about the Church

even after 12 years of Catholic school, and I think we were selectively taught. Fortunately, a progressive order of nuns in my high school and Vatican II gave me a much deeper understanding of many of the truths, even though we were still censored. (Graduated HS in 1965). And the Bishops' problem now is, you can't unteach someone to think, once they have learned. And of course it is easier to research Church teachings with modern communication and the internet. I'm sure the Bishops would love to convince us that it is a mortal sin to read things on the internet. Let's continue to pray for the Church to return to the teachings of Christ.

[rug]

13. I graduated in 1967.

We were raised in an authoritarian era. The openness promised by Vatican II has been smothered. Still, there are proressive priests and nuns, like your teachers, who remember the Church is not ulitmately about rules and obedience. If history shows anything, it shows that regimes based on authoritarianism, primarily, do not last. I'm optimistic about what will emerge. It will still be the same Church, but one that will finally focus on its message.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

10. I wonder if they are going to address the reasons why Catholics leave

I suspect that they are going to take the attitude that Catholics who have left should change their attitudes, with no concomitant changes on the part of the hierarchy.

I'm reminded of a bit in Garrison Keillor's story, "Protestant," where there was a split between two branches of a small Protestant sect, and the leader of one of the groups says, "Any time they want to come to us and admit their mistake, we're perfectly happy to sit and listen to them and then come to a decision about accepting them back." While the bishops undoubtedly will not put it that baldly, that would be the actual attitude. Are the bishops going to do away with celibacy? Of course not. Are they going to even talk about the ordination of women? Don't be silly. Will they even admit that they mishandled the pedophilia mess? It is to laugh.

In other words, those who left are wholly at fault, and nothing need change on the Church's end.

[rug]

11. Good point.

They realy are overdue on self-reflection.

[47of74]

14. Reminds me of the response of two different priests

Several years ago at the Cathedral parish there was a monsignor in charge there who was an all around great guy. One night at Mass he said there were 30 million people who left the church and 30 million reasons why - many of them good and valid reasons. Skip ahead a few years after the monsignor retired. We had this guy who did the 5:30pm Mass who was on this kick about how when it came to former Catholics it was always a weakness or failing on the part of the former Catholic - that the church had not and could not do any wrong. Sigh.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

15. That attitude is part and parcel of "triumphalism"

Which has been defined as "My Church, right or wrong; except that she is never wrong."

[olegramps]

16. One of the principle reasons for what can only be regarded as failure is rejection of collegiality.

The bishops who attended Vatican II were not going to be brow beaten by the Vatican cronies who just wanted to dust off the Vatican I documents have the bishops bless them and quickly return to the dioceses.

John XIII in his opening address to the council disassociated himself from the Curia's narrow defensive view and urged the bishops to undertake a total renewal of the church. He called those who resisted change as the prophets of "doom and gloom" rather than taking an optimistic view of the course of modern history. Urged by the opening statements of Pope John XIII, the bishops totally rejected the schema that had been drawn up the Curia and established committees to rewrite total revisions that adequately addressed the issues confronting the church. The headlines in the Rome's newspapers screamed BISHOPS IN OPEN REVOLT.

One of, if not the most important concepts that as clearly expressed by the bishops was the demand for collegiality. That is the inclusion of the bishops in making important statements on doctrine. Also they encouraged greater participation of the laity in the parish which the local pastor far too often regarded as his personal fief in which his ruled was absolute. Here in, in my estimation, would have begun a return to the church in its founding when the leaders were chosen by the entire congregation and who over time had been disenfranchised. Paul VI caved into the Curia and totally disregarded the bishops in his rejection of any change in the church's position on clerical celibacy and birth control. Pope John Paul II totally rejected the concept of collegiality defying the most important dictate to the Vatican II and purged the church of any liberal bishops.

The result: Millions of lifelong faithful Catholics voted with their feet. Often heard was the refrain, I haven't left the chruch, the church has left me.