On being offended.

[cleanhippie]

“It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what.”
― Stephen Fry

[Shrike47]

1. I find Fry's statement offensive. Bully.

[cleanhippie]

2. I find your name calling offensive.

So there.

[Bluenorthwest]

3. Do you know the context of that quote. Very interesting.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/jun/05/religion.hayfestival2005

[cleanhippie]

4. Interesting indeed.

Thanks for the link.

[Bluenorthwest]

5. Mr Fry is a favorite of mine going back many years.

The man can turn a phrase.

[Jim__]

6. "So fucking what?" Really?

You have to be pretty much of an idiot to think you have no reason to respect the fact that someone is telling you you're offending them. If you respect people, you refrain from offending then under normal circumstances. Are there circumstances when it's ok to offend? Sure. But that is the only time you should deliberately offend people. And the reason to give offense has to supercede the reasons we have to respect other people's feelings.

Back in the early 60s, around the time that the civil rights movement was beginning to gain media attention, a friend of mine went for a visit down south with his family - from NYC. His father was getting his hair cut in a barbershop and he was talking and talking about negroes - negroes was the polite term for black people in those days. The barber and the other customers had a fit. "They're niggers. Godammit, call them niggers." Negro was a term that showed some respect. It didn't give offense to the people you were talking about. The barber demanded that you be offensive; his culture demanded it.

Sure, "nigger" is offensive to some people. So fucking what? That's just a whine? Bullshit! That's a whole fucking way of life. By being deliberately offensive to people, deliberately offensive to their face, you're daring them to react. Oppressed people have to accept the offense.

Fry is telling the story about his great-grandfather's grave being desecrated in Slovakia. Does he imagine the people that desecrated the grave referred to his great-grandfather's people as Jewish people. Or as fucking jews? Kikes? If the desecrators grew up in a village where Fry's great-grandfather was referred to as a Jewish person, they'd be a lot less likely to desecrate his grave. Deliberately giving offense and disrespecting people is just another way of dehumanizing people.

So fucking what? Really?

[cleanhippie]

7. I think the point is that "that offends me" is a worthless statement.

If that's all the argument one can come up with to criticize another's opinion, then "so fucking what" is entirely appropriate.

I'm sure that there are many better arguments for not using the n-word than "I find that offensive," wouldn't you agree? YMMV

[skepticscott]

10. Exactly

Simply saying "that's offensive" (which is usually accompanied by a desire, whether spoken or not, for the "offensive" statement to be modified or withdrawn) with nothing to justify it beyond the fact that it gave one person a hinky feeling, is meaningless. If nothing could every be said if it offended even the least sensitive and most politically correct person out there, then we might just as well all STFU forever. Sometimes people's reasons for being "offended" really are silly and worthless, and should be given no deference whatsoever. Nobody in this world has the right (god-given or otherwise) to never be offended by anything. Religionists are some of the worst offenders in the "stop doing that because it offends me" game.

[trotsky]

14. George Takei put this well.

If we have to bring our dialog down to "the lowest common denominator of butthurt," we as a society are doomed.

[cbayer]

8. +1. Excellent post, Jim.

[cleanhippie]

9. I find that offensive.

[rug]

12. It's amazing how something so self-evident eludes people.

[trotsky]

15. So I take it you're offended by what Fry said?

Good. That's the point.

[rug]

11. "You can only offend me if you mean something to me." - Chris Rock

[struggle4progress]

13. Offending people is one of those tactics I find most useful if applied in moderation