Stockton Diocese ponders bankruptcy.........

[dimbear]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/14/us-usa-church-abuse-idUSBRE98D01I20130914

(Reuters) - The Roman Catholic Diocese of Stockton, California, is contemplating filing for bankruptcy protection after nearly depleting church funds available to settle sex-abuse claims brought against its clergy, the bishop said on Friday.

The diocese, comprising 250,000 parishioners from California's Central Valley, is in line to become the 10th U.S. Catholic district to file for Chapter 11 reorganization under the weight of child molestation cases against priests.
**************

Ten? Would ten be enough? The straw that broke the camel's back?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

1. a good start, but so many diocese(s?) are left intact.

so much more work to do to achieve something close to justice.

[rug]

2. Not really.

Debtors are also protected from other litigation against the business through the imposition of an automatic stay. While the automatic stay is in place, most litigation against the debtor is stayed, or put on hold, until it can be resolved in bankruptcy court, or resumed in its original venue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapter_11,_Title_11,_United_States_Code

[xfundy]

4. So, is a church a business now?

If so, finally, we're getting closer to rational.

They do sell a product, though it's invisible, but it has magic powers, even though they're invisible as well. And it costs 15% of your earnings every sunday, but you better not question, or you'll be threatened with invisible taunters and torturers, unless you're threatened by real ones, AKA Christers eager to hurt unbelievers, even though they believe eternal "vengeance is mine, saith the LORD they claim to worship.

[rug]

5. Each diocese is a not-for-profit corporation, sort of like FFRF.

Your last paragraph is just, well, stupid.

[xfundy]

9. My last paragraph?

And it costs 15% of your earnings every sunday, but you better not question, or you'll be threatened with invisible taunters and torturers, unless you're threatened by real ones, AKA Christers eager to hurt unbelievers, even though they believe eternal "vengeance is mine, saith the LORD they claim to worship.

Sorry, that's reality.

[rug]

15. The only reality it reflects is that of the inside of your head.

Take this fragment for example: "costs 15% of your earnings every sunday".

I won't even parse the rest of it.

[cbayer]

18. I agree that your last paragraph is just stupid.

It's full of hyperbolic nonsense that reads like it come from some playbook.

I know you are smart enough to frame your argument in a much more cohesive way, and you are much more convincing when you do so. The words you use here just turn anyone you might be trying to reach right off.

Good luck with that.

[gopiscrap]

3. I thought they already filed for bankrutcy once before

I know Tucson, Portland and Spokane did

[msongs]

6. a fraud, the catholic church is one of the most filthy rich entitities on the planet nt

[rug]

8. How much does it have?

[xfundy]

10. How much does the Catholic Church have?

Is that number even accountable?

BILLIONS in cash, Billions in real estate, and who could possibly account for the billions and billions lost by the children they abused, neglected, or sexually molested?

I stand in awe. I do. Of your posts. I. Stand. In. Awe.

[xfundy]

11. Sound of crickets.

Chirp, chirp. No info, chirp chirp.

[rug]

16. snore, snore, 3am, snore, snore.

[niyad]

12. and don't forget the billions in art, much of it carefully stored in the vatican vaults, not to be

seen by the world.

[rug]

17. How much?

Although you may be right, the Vatican, Golloum-like, tends to hide its precious art treasures from the prying eyes of the world.

http://www.vatican.va/various/cappelle/sistina_vr/index.html

[niyad]

20. google is your friend, seriously. "roman catholic church net worth" yields over 100,000 hits.

give it a try, and do some reading. might prove very enlightening. I'll even start you off with a single list:

What do we know about the church’s finances?

1 The symbolic value, in euros, of the buildings in Vatican City. The church uses this number to indicate they are priceless and could never be sold. They include: the Apostolic Palace, the pope’s official residence; the Sistine Chapel, best known for murals by Botticelli and Michelangelo, who painted the ceiling and the famous Last Judgment behind the altar; and St. Peter’s Basilica, the largest church in the world erected over the supposed burial site of the apostle St. Peter, the first bishop of Rome.

716,290 The amount of Church-owned land, in square kilometres, across the globe — an area slightly bigger than Alberta. Properties include Vatican embassies, churches, cathedrals, monasteries, some schools and convents.

10 Reported investment (in billions of dollars) in foreign companies by the Institute of Religious Works (the Vatican bank) in the 1990s. It has holdings in such industries as banking, insurance, chemicals, steel, construction and real estate. It only invests in companies that operate according to Catholic morals. For example, it will not invest in a pharmaceutical company that produces birth control.

86 In millions of dollars, Peter’s Pence in 2011. The Vatican’s most important source of ready cash is made up of donations from parishes across the globe. The money is spent on humanitarian projects, including disaster relief, medical aid, and help to the poor in developing nations, children and refugees.

22.4 In millions of dollars, the approximate value of almost one metric tonne of gold owned by the Holy See in 2008.

308 In millions of dollars, the Vatican’s revenue in 2011. It spent $326.4-million, but ended the year with a $27-million surplus.

31 In millions of dollars, the amount seized from the Vatican bank by Italian authorities during an investigation into money laundering.

2 In billions of dollars, the amount paid out as settlements by the church for sex-abuse allegations in the United States.

National Post

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/03/08/wealth-of-roman-catholic-church-impossible-to-calculate/

[rug]

21. Its revenue, then, is about 30 cents per Catholic.

[niyad]

22. thanks for the laugh, sorely needed. please continue.

[rug]

23. Do the math yourself.

308 In millions of dollars, the Vatican’s revenue in 2011

Divide by a billion.

[niyad]

24. curious why you are so desperate to prove that the woman-hating, homophobic rcc is NOT

one of the wealthiest institutions in the world.

[rug]

25. I'm hardly desperate but I do wonder why you're having such difficulty proving it is.

[niyad]

26. as I said, google is your friend. but I won't be holding my breath.

[rug]

27. It's your claim. What you have provided has yet to prove it.

[niyad]

28. nothing anybody says will prove it in your mind, therefore, not going to waste my time.

[rug]

29. That's convenient.

[niyad]

30. ~~~~30~~~~

[rug]

31. ~~~~30cents~~~~

[rug]

14. Yes, how much: "the catholic church is one of the most filthy rich entitities on the planet".

You're not in the habit of accepting fanciful claims, are you?

[tech3149]

7. As a non-profit I don't think Ch 11 should be an option

Chapter 7 should be required. Sell off all real assets to pay debts, do not pass go do not collect $200.

[niyad]

13. gee, folks, did it ever occur to you, as an organization, as individuals, that if you had not been

protecting these bastards all this time, you wouldn't have to be paying out right now?

[cbayer]

19. Good, they need to start over.

What camel's back are you hoping gets broken?