What is God?

[MarkCharles]

What is God? Is it an idea you've derived from one of the many versions of the Christian bible? Since these bibles were written by men, how can you be so sure that the idea they describe is accurate? What leads you to think that their understanding of God was any better than yours would have been had you not read their words? You may have noticed that the God described in the Old Testament is fairly different from the one mentioned in the New Testament. Which is the correct God, and how do you know?

What is God? Is it an idea you have been taught by your family, friends, church, and culture? You may have noticed that there is great variability in what people around you believe about God. Who is right, and how do you know? What if you've been worshipping the wrong God all this time?

What is God? Perhaps what you are worshipping is your own unique understanding of God based on everything you've been taught, your personal experiences, and how you've interpreted them. This would certainly make sense and is probably how most religious people understand God. But how is this meaningfully different from worshipping yourself? Wouldn't this mean that worship is really a form of self-love?

What is God? And if you aren't sure, are you only claiming to believe in it because you have been told that you are supposed to do so? Perhaps your faith has been misplaced. You just might be an atheist in hiding.

http://www.atheistrev.com/2010/07/what-is-god.html

[Angry Dragon]

1. No two people look at god the same way

so there are billions of gods

[MarkCharles]

2. So kind of proves my bold-lettered point, I guess.

God is a fabrication of the human mind, an image of a perfection coming from an imperfect mind, and reflecting that imperfect mind, with all the same blind spots and logical fallacies.

[Angry Dragon]

6. You are making a unverified assumption

How does one measure the mind??
And what are the facts to back up your claim of imperfect minds??

And seeing how there are billions of gods how do you know that all of them are fabrications??
Where is your proof??

Have you investigated all of them??

edit: changed 'how' to 'have'

[MarkCharles]

8. "Unverified assumption" or "theory"?

If it is the latter, I invite anyone on the planet to "disprove" my "theory".

Here's ANOTHER "theory" I will invite any of the 7 billion people on the planet to disprove:

There is no entity in the realm of all of existence that can actually be PROVED to be a "god".

And the corollary thereto:

There is no god!

With evidence, logic, and any scientific or mathematical methods available to any and all of us humans: Prove me wrong.

[Angry Dragon]

9. You made the statements, not I

You talked of imperfect minds, I asked to back up your statement


You talked about god being a fabrication, I asked you to disprove all the billions........

It is not on me to disprove your assumptions, it is on you to prove and state your case

[mr blur]

11. The burden of proof for extraordinary claims, of course,

lies with the claimant.

[Angry Dragon]

12. What claim did I make??

[tama]

18. Once again

every logical system containing number theory contains "truths" that cannot be proven inside a finite set of axioms, is a logical statement proven by Gödel.

Gödel's proof of limits of provability is logical, scientific and mathematical method available also to you. I have full confidence in your intellectual ability to comprehend and internalize that proof and give a meaningful role in how you communicate. The will to do so is up to you. I can only show you where the fountain is, I cannot force you to drink.

[KT2000]

3. Good question

and it is the one that should be asked whenever religion is injected into national and local politics.
Another question is "What is a Christian?" In my small town there are probably 35 Christian churches.

[MarkCharles]

4. Christian...the word is a soup to nuts term, for sure.

Some self-proclaimed Christians stand up for women, and for gay folks, and work hard to make their rights equal to others.

Other Christians, (Mitt Romney, for example) rip off thousands of hard-working people in order to legally make a big big profit and then campaign for President in order to squelch the rights of so many others in our nation.

All of them "claim" to be "Christians".

Few of them know the damage that they do.

[yodermon]

5. God is the imprint of our primary caregivers from early childhood in our limbic system.

As child rearing practices improve in cultures, God becomes less violent and more loving. (Wars also decrease).

Full helping-mode parenting obviates God completely.

[rrneck]

7. God is a fig newton of your imagination. nt

[Starboard Tack]

10. God is whatever each individual decides.

If one believes in a god, then god exists for that individual.

[tama]

17. Or as that individual

Individual has the same basic meaning as atom, that which can't be divided. Which sounds another way of saying 'a whole in itself'.

A reductionist scientist searches for the theory that has indivisible beauty. Einstein would not mind calling such a theory (individual, relativistic) 'God'. Others just don't like that word, and I'm not blaming them.

[Starboard Tack]

23. I thought the atom had been divided already

Don't scientists use theory to search for proof? Right now they are searching for proof of the so-called God Particle.

[tama]

24. It's Greek

a-privative and tomos, which means cut. Whole that you cant cat into parts.

Reductionist scientist are searching for the final theory that can explain everything. The uncuttable and indivisible partiture of equations that nothing can be taken from and nothing added, which is perfect as it is. There is much beauty in that quest.

[Starboard Tack]

27. Indeed there is. Thanks for the etymology.

So, since atoms have been split, are they no longer atoms, in the pure sense of the word? Or is the atom the smallest stable form of any element?

[tama]

29. A quiz?

Instead of smallest particle (measurability ends at Planck scale) there is search for the perfect set of equations that unite the four basic force-fields.

[Silent3]

19. That doesn't sound very different from a figment of one's imagination...

...or wishful thinking. Not a very impressive sort of God, even if the individual imagining that God is impressed.

And/or you're using a very weak notion of what it means to "exist".

[Starboard Tack]

25. What else could God be than a figment of one's imagination?

Does a thought exist? Does an idea exist? If so, then the existence of God and what that word means is purely subjective.

[Silent3]

28. Like Spider Man or Darth Vader then?

Do you bother to make any distinction between the way you and your friends and family "exist", and the way fictional characters "exist"?

Which kind of existing do you think it is that gods do?

[Starboard Tack]

30. Friends and family exist in my reality.

Gods exist in books and myths and the minds of others.

[Silent3]

31. Why bother saying something like, "If one believes in a god, then god exists for that individual"?

I'm sure you're perfectly capable of continuing to be evasive about this, but I doubt that you don't know what I'm getting at.

"If one believes in a god, then god exists for that individual" sounds like nothing more than a diplomatic way of saying gods don't exist at all, at least any more than fictional characters do, but without being quite so rude as to call gods works of fiction or figments of the imagination.

And if you aren't merely being diplomatic, are you actually arguing for some sort of fuzzy new-agey "create your own reality" reality where thinking a thing is real is as real as real gets?

[Starboard Tack]

33. Why "bother"?

Because that's how I see it. If someone believes in a god, it's a personal belief and personal beliefs are important to people. It's not about being diplomatic, but being respectful of others. Who are you and I to determine what beliefs others should have. I have found that their is no fruitful discussion to be had in attacking an individual's religious beliefs. However, challenging the ideas and building blocks that form those beliefs has the potential to bear fruit. I find that some atheists are as abrasive as the most strident bible thumper. They are like vicious dogs who attack any vulnerable spot, in an effort to subdue their prey. That's why many of us don't label ourselves atheists or christians, because we don't embrace a mob mentality. It's kind of ironic that most of the proselytizers in this country tend to be either fundamentalist christians and atheists. I would also bet that most of the atheists who proselytize are former christians who have been victimized by the church in some way.

[Silent3]

36. It's important to some people to think that Obama is a Kenyan-born socialist...

...bent on the destruction of the American way of life. Because something is important to some people it becomes "true" for them, and should be treated with gingerly respect?

This is a forum for clear, open discussion about matters of religion. This particular conversation is not an out-of-the-blue confrontation with unsuspecting believers, it is not proselytizing. Weasel words serve no useful purpose here.

[Starboard Tack]

37. It is important for some people to change the personal beliefs of others.

"Because something is important to some people it becomes "true" for them, and should be treated with gingerly respect?"

As I have said, it is fine to attack the ideas and beliefs, but not the individuals who happen to embrace them. Insulting people because of their faith is hardly progressive.

The OP is definitely proselytizing. He consistently posts flame bait in bitter attacks against christians of all stripes. In his ramblings, he broad brushes all religious people as delusional. Well, I see those of his ilk as insecure wannabe atheist messiahs, constantly looking for recognition by "deprogramming" believers.

I think there are two basic kinds of atheist:
Those, like myself, who just outgrew the religious nonsense, kept what we wanted, discarded the rest and got on with our lives.
Those, like the poster, who, from their own personal experiences, are angry and embittered to the point that they feel the need to enlighten and free those who remain prisoners of their delusions.

[Bonhomme Richard]

13. It seems everywhere except where he is needed. n/t

[Starboard Tack]

26. I think that would be Superman. nt

[GliderGuider]

14. Which one?

Ganesh, Mithra or Huycau? MarkCharles? Or GliderGuider perhaps?

[spin]

15. God is the reality beyond our imagination. (n/t)

[tama]

16. Self-love

Well said.

[Silent3]

20. Or mental masturbation...

...which might loosely be called "self love".

[tama]

21. Does mental masturbation

grow hair back on your scalp?

And yep, life is sexy.

[Plantaganet]

22. Easy

God is a concept by which we measure our pain.

Religion, meanwhile, is a smile on a dog.

[tama]

32. Smile ON a dog?

There are also those who smile WITH a dog, and let a dog be a teacher and a friend.

[laconicsax]

34. I think the answer may be along these lines:

http://www.lettersofnote.com/2009/10/word-god-is-product-of-human-weakness.html

The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish.

[napoleon_in_rags]

35. God is the rejection of the dualism which seeks to divide the universe into "it" and "you"

Once you realize that you can relate to a phenomenon as an "it", or as a "you", then you see how arbitrary this choice is. A cat can be an "it" or a "her/you", all the parts of the human body and the body itself can be viewed as an "it" through a medical lens, or as a "you" when making love. Once you begin to relate to the mystery of existence as a "you" rather than an "it", than you've opened your mind to having a concept of a personal God.

[mia]

38. God is a spirit infinitely perfect.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/balt/balt1.htm
I came to know this when I was six years old, just before I made my first communion. I still believe it.

As an adult. I no longer believe that the "Catholic Church" has all the answers.

[RegieRocker]

39. Another atheist preacher pusing his religion.

Trying to convert believers into non believers.

[edhopper]

41. Sure

[cleanhippie]

42. If you need to tell yourself that at night to sleep better, thats your business.

Or is spouting outrageous, illogical, irrational things just what you do?

[GliderGuider]

40. "God" can be the realization that everything is perfect exactly as it is.

It's the awareness that things are absolutely perfect in all their perceived imperfection, illusory order and glorious incomprehensibility, because it could not possibly be any other way except as it is.

In this way of understanding Godness, "worship" becomes a simple expression of gratitude. Not gratitude to anything or anyone, but gratitude for this opportunity to experience this perfection. In the same sense, "prayer" becomes a simple expression of the wish to participate more fully and consciously in the perfection - with "Amen" being a peal of cosmic laughter.