What's the minimum-requirement for being considered a Christian?

[DetlefK]

The Bible is full of regulations that don't make sense anymore nowadays or aren't adhered to anymore nowadays as a matter of convenience. But those believers are still considered and consider themselves Christians.

Then there are those for whom the regulations of the Old Testament have higher priority than Jesus Christ's teachings of love and caring for the least among us. They also are still considered and consider themselves Christians.

What about others?
What about a spiritual person whose belief-system contains Christianity only as one of several components?
What about atheists who cherry-pick the morals of the Bible they deem acceptable and refuse to worship Jehovah?



To quote "Walking in Memphis": What does the question "Tell me, are you a christian child?" mean?

[Arkansas Granny]

1. A co-worker and I were discussing this only today.

We've decided that many are Kristians, like the Krab salad you find in stores or on buffet lines. The outward appearance may seem right, but when you get right down to it, it's fake.

[rug]

2. That there is a God and that he sent his Son.

[atreides1]

3. Is that across the board

Or the standard of your church?

[rug]

4. I think that's the bare minimum across the board.

It doesn't include any who think that Jesus was simply a good man. Don't forget, the term Christian refers to "the anointed one" or the Messiah, so unless there's that relationship in the first place, simply liking who Jesus was isn't much different from liking any other good person.

[Warren Stupidity]

58. So you just drummed Unitarians out of Christianity.

How very tolerant of you.

[rug]

59. How very ignorant of you.

Historically, Unitarians did not believe Jesus was divine but ascribed a role to Jesus consistent with a role as son of God. Presently many Unitarians do not consider themselves Christian at all, nor is such an appellation necessary to be a modern Unitarian.

Jehovah's Witnesses are unitarian in theology, do not believe Jesus is divine but do believe he is the son of God.

Neither the Trinity nor the divinity of Jesus were in the bare bones definition given, although by far most Christians hold those tenets.

Rather than attempt snark, try to educate yourself first, no matter how difficult the task.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

29. so, who was his heavenly mommy?

or does your god reproduce by spores, budding, parthenogenesis, or some other forms of asexual reproduction?

[rug]

51. I leave questions of asexual re[production to you.

[Leontius]

38. Can't get any simpler or basic than that.

[Ilsa]

5. Most Christian denominations I'm acquainted with

or have studied see it as this: God sent his son to teach, reform the harsh law, and die on the cross for our sins, was miraculously raised from the dead to prove his defeat over death for us all. Accepting that Christ did this to redeem us from our sins and living to serve Christ is the means of becoming a Christian. Being "saved" for access to heaven after death.

Some of the denominations look at the Old Testament as a history of the religion's beliefs and early laws, and the prophecies of the coming Messiah. And that is why it is taught. I don't know why any of the Leviticus laws are used except to be cherry-picked. The Old Testament's Ten Commandments aren't specific about the junk in Leviticus.

[cleanhippie]

6. The ability to discard reason when supernatural belief is confronted by reality?

But that seems to apply to all believers in the supernatural, not just Christians. YMMV.

[rurallib]

7. just declare yourself one. That is all

[trotsky]

8. Declaring yourself one.

Oh, people will bellyache about that but it's true. There is no other way, especially when it comes down to one's personal interpretation of a collection of stories.

[Dorian Gray]

60. I would agree with you

mostly. But then, there are people who lie in life, sometimes, too. But it's not my place to judge whether people are lieing or not. So, I would accept that people say they are a Christian to be true.

But i'm a judgmental prick, so I might think they're a shitty person.

[sinkingfeeling]

9. To follow only the teachings of Christ in the Bible. I'm an atheist, but

probably 90% more Christian than those who believe in god.

[trotsky]

11. FYI, that definition runs into problems.

What exactly ARE the "teachings of Christ in the Bible"?

Christians themselves disagree.

[sinkingfeeling]

12. I think the Jefferson Bible has it.

[trotsky]

13. Oh, do all Christians agree that the Jefferson Bible is the correct one? n/t

[sinkingfeeling]

14. I don't care if all 'christians' agree or not. I don't believe in magical

sky beings. But I do know that some 'christians' are pretty nasty people.

[trotsky]

15. Agreed, but there is no requirement that a Christian be nice, is there?

I think if a person believes they are a Christian, they are. Once you start splitting hairs, you'll end up with no Christians at all.

I mean, there are some Christians who don't even believe Jesus existed. Strange but true.

[truebluegreen]

55. Which, for people like me, is most of the problem.

Belief is a necessity, but good behavior is not: the assumption is it will magically flow from the belief...except it doesn't.

[edhopper]

10. Is it a question of

how someone considers themselves a christian, or how others deem someone a christian.
Two different questions.

[Iggo]

16. Saying "I'm a Christian."

[LostOne4Ever]

17. The definition I use

Is the one from religioustolerance.org:

[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#dcdcdc; padding-bottom:5px; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-bottom:none; border-radius:0.4615em 0.4615em 0em 0em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_defn3.htm[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#f0f0f0; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-top:none; border-radius:0em 0em 0.4615em 0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]"We accept as Christian any individual or group who devoutly, thoughtfully, seriously, and prayerfully regards themselves to be Christian. That is, they honestly believe themselves to be attempting to follow the teachings of Yeshua of Nazareth (a.k.a. Jesus Christ) as they interpret those teachings to be."

I am not a believer so I'm sure many Christians disagree with me on the definition. Regardless, I find this article on the issue to be an interesting read:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_defn.htm

[cbayer]

19. How do you get that particular kind of format for your excerpt?

[LostOne4Ever]

20. I got it from the help forum

I can't get it to post myself but i found it here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12561674#post18

[cbayer]

21. OMG! I feel like I am reading Chinese.

Thanks, but I guess I will just stick to the regular excerpt.

[LostOne4Ever]

22. I copy and paste from a word document

I copy and paste from a word document the format and then the copy and paste the title replacing TITLE GOES HERE part. I then follow it up with copying and pasting the body over the MESSAGE GOES HERE part.

It takes a few seconds but I think it comes out looking really nice. It reminds me of how they quotes look like on the world of warcraft forums...only it takes more effort here

[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#dcdcdc; padding-bottom:5px; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-bottom:none; border-radius:0.4615em 0.4615em 0em 0em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]cbayer[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#f0f0f0; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-top:none; border-radius:0em 0em 0.4615em 0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]Thanks, but I guess I will just stick to the regular excerpt.

I can understand that. It is time consuming and for small stuff i just use block quotes button myself.

[cbayer]

23. I love the way it looks. Much nicer than the regular format.

The way you explain it doesn't look so difficult, so here goes a try.



[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#dcdcdc; padding-bottom:5px; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-bottom:none; border-radius:0.4615em 0.4615em 0em 0em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]LostOne4Ever[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#f0f0f0; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-top:none; border-radius:0em 0em 0.4615em 0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]I copy and paste from a word document the format and then the copy and paste the title replacing TITLE GOES HERE part. I then follow it up with copying and pasting the body over the MESSAGE GOES HERE part.

[cbayer]

24. Woo-hoo! Going to save that for special occasions. Thanks!

[LostOne4Ever]

25. There you go!

[cbayer]

26. Thanks so much for your help. I bookmarked the link.

[DetlefK]

56. Thanks.

So it's about internal factors like the belief and its sincerity, not external factors like scripture and laws.

[cbayer]

18. Minimum requirement? I didn't think there was one.

Anyone that defines themselves as a christian is one as far as I am concerned.

But if you had to get down to it, I would say that those that believe jesus was sent from god and that follow his teachings are christians.

IMHO, the bible is completely irrelevant to whether one is a christian or not. It may hold some of the christ stories, but I don't think it's necessary that one embrace it in order to be a christian.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

27. The minimum? You have to be intolerant of the thinking of other people.

[cbayer]

30. Hogwash. There are intolerant christians and tolerant christians, just

as there are intolerant atheists and tolerant atheists.

Where might you place yourself?

[AnotherMcIntosh]

31. It starts with the 1st Commandment: "Thou shalt have no other gods before me."

Everything thereafter is a matter of degree. I.e., how much intolerance is displayed or otherwise held towards others.

[cbayer]

32. That's a commandment for an individual, imo. It says nothing

about tolerance.

So what group would you put yourself in?

[AnotherMcIntosh]

34. What group? We have to be in groups? Is that a Christian concept?

[cbayer]

35. Not at all a christian concept and you were the one who put all christians in

a very circumscribed group.

If anything is intolerant, it would be that.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

39. If I am intolerant, that might qualify me to be a Christian. If I am less intolerant, that could

qualify me to be a pagan or an atheist.

The 1st Commandment is not merely an admonition for individuals. It is an admonition to be intolerant of all people who worship more than one god and all people who worship a god other than the Christian god. Intolerance is the foundation for Christianity in all of its forms. Don't like money changers? Chase them away with violence or threatened violence. Don't like scientists who look through telescopes? Call out the Inquisitors. Don't like Protestants? Have a religious war. Don't like people who reject superstition and theater? Call them atheists.

[hrmjustin]

40. I am a Christian and very tolerant.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

42. What kind? The kind that would disobey God's commandment, "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live"?

Exodus 22:18

[hrmjustin]

44. I have some Wiccan relatives and friends and I hate the idea of killing them.

[cbayer]

41. Total pretzel logic.

If you are intolerant, it doesn't qualify you as anything other than someone who is intolerant.

If you label whole groups of people with certain traits that might be found in some of them, what might you call that? Perhaps you should focus your remarks on those that actually do the things you list.

You may read it as an admonition to be intolerant and some believers might as well, but others may read it completely differently. And still other believers may reject it completely.

BTW, the ten commandments were around long before christianity, so that kind of deflates your whole argument.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

43. Actually, Christianity adopted the Ten Commandments. There was no repudiation.

Edited to correct typographical error.

[cbayer]

45. The Ten Commendments? That's funny.

We recently had a thread in here asking how believers reconciled this whole notion and pretty much across the board they responded that they did not feel that their beliefs negated anyone else's. They were bright and enlightened enough to not be biblical literalists and felt that god could be many different things to many different people.

It's your POV that appears to be intolerant, my friend .

[AnotherMcIntosh]

46. The DU believers do not represent believers as a whole. They are probably more educated and

liberal than those who worship with snake handlers, those who belong to The Church where men wear dresses and befriend alter boys, those who send their money to television preachers, etc.

[cbayer]

47. So, since you recognize that there are different kinds of believers, and

that some are liberal members of DU, why would you make such a broadbrush negative statement and apply it to all christians? Do you not think that it might be a rude or hurtful thing to say to people who post here?

[AnotherMcIntosh]

48. No. I expect DUers to be liberals. Liberals are not offended by the truth. On the other hand, I

will remove any religious-related comment by me that offends your sensibilities.

[cbayer]

49. But it's not the truth, as we just determined.

Truth requires some rational data to back it up. You made a sweeping statement that can't be validated at all. That's not truth, that's intolerance.

And you are wrong. It is offensive to DU believers. They frequently complain about it.

Would it be ok if I answered the same question about non-believers in a similar fashion based on my experiences with a few or my desire to just attack atheists?

I doubt it.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

50. Let's explore that concept: "Truth requires some rational data to back it up."

Wow.

Ironic.

If that is not exactly the opposite of what a "believer" requires in order to believe, I don't know what is.

Look, you must be right, I must be wrong, and I apologize. Christians are not intolerant of others.

[cbayer]

52. Sure, it is what differentiates faith from fact.

Believers rely on faith not data. So what? And those that say they "know for a fact" are wrong, because they have no data. However, those that say they believe are not necessarily wrong, or at least you have no knowledge that they are wrong.

Your initial statement has been proven wrong in a single response to you. Do you think hrmjustin is intolerant?And it's replicable. You've already acknowledged that DU believers are not likely to be intolerant.

So, I'll go back to my original response. Some christians are tolerant and some are intolerant. Some atheists are tolerant and some are intolerant.

[hrmjustin]

28. Declare yourself one. As a believing Christian I do not have a check list in what you have to

believe.

Majority of Christians believe in the Birth, ministry, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Some don't take everything literally and some do. I believe in all four literally. The reality is by the way you live your life will show whether you really believe in something.

[riqster]

33. There are two core schools of thought, from which many others follow

We can call them "Followers" and "Worshippers" to keep it simple. They argued a lot until the Worshippers won the fight, with Constantine's assistance. The Worship factions (led by the Paulines) were more charismatic and better-suited for political manipulation.

Followers focus on following the teachings of the Rabbi Jesus.

Worshippers focus on miraculous salvation and pay less attention to Christ's teachings, our actions in the material world.

And since most modern denominations come from the Worshippers,you can now see why so many Christians seem to act in such an un-Christlike manner. Christ's words are not all that important to them.

[cbayer]

36. Thanks for that. That helps me understand some of the divisions among christians.

Do you think it's a useful tool or description in defining groups of christians today?

[riqster]

37. To an extent, yes.

Keep in mind, the council of Nicea was over 1500 years ago, so the differences are not as clear-cut on the ground as in my admittedly simplified model. Lots of sects, lots of variations.

I just watch how they live, and how they treat other people. That is independent of their professed faith (if any).

Some downright saint-like people I have met have been atheists.

[cbayer]

54. I agree wholeheartedly with what you say here.

How a person lives is what is important, not what they may or may not believe.

[upaloopa]

53. I will never understand why it is important to

rate someone else's spirituallity.
Why do you feel good doing that?

[DetlefK]

57. That's not a question of rating, it's about knowing yourself.

Simply ask yourself: "Am I a Christian? How do I know whether or not? Is that person a Christian? How do I know whether or not?"

The answer itself is less interesting than the path TO that answer.

For example:
A hermite living in the wilderness. He has never heard of Christianity or the Bible, but he follows a belief-system that contains exactly the same mythological elements and the same commandments and morals, just by another name.
Is living, thinking and praying like a Christian enough to be regarded a Christian?