Religion
Related: About this forumLosing My Religion: The illusion of choice in religious leave-taking
July 15, 2013
By John Halstead
Recently, Carol Christ and Judith Plaskow engaged in an online conversation at the Feminism and Religion blog over the question of whether or not to remain in the patriarchal religion of ones birth, with Christ taking the position of the leave-taker and Plaskow taking the position of the reformer-from-within.
Christ writes that she decided to leave Christianity when she realized that she did not embrace the core doctrines of Christianity or its core symbols (i.e., God as Lord and King). She writes that, even if she had been able to revision the masculinist language, the continued repetition of these symbols by others was influencing their individual actions and the actions of the culture they were legitimating through themand these actions were hurting others.
Plaskow responds that, while she finds the masculinist language problematic, when she worships with her community, I do not experience God as king or warrior, and my experience weighs as heavily for me as what you call the core symbols of the tradition. Christ questions whether Plaskow is concerned about how the image of God as dominating male Other will affect her granddaughter, to which Plaskow responds with this beautiful passage:
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/allergicpagan/2013/07/15/losing-my-religion-the-illusion-of-choice-in-religious-leave-taking/
djean111
(14,255 posts)Thus, the language and symbolism mean nothing no matter how they are expressed. At most, interesting and charming traditions.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,358 posts)Christ left Christianity? That should be in LBN.
rug
(82,333 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Jim__
(14,083 posts)Halstead says that The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas gave him the courage to walk away from the Mormon Church. But, I think that story speaks more to the human condition than any particular aspect of it, like religion.
I have to give that story some thought.
dimbear
(6,271 posts)Salem, Oregon's a nice little town too.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)I have come to believe that for many people, being a believer or non-believer is not a matter of choice but is part of their identity, who they are.
While she focuses on those who go from being religious to being non-religious, I think the same could be said for those that go the other way.
MellowDem
(5,018 posts)Cultures form around belief systems, but religion is still just a belief system. Losing the beliefs one was indoctrinated into may mean losing access to certain parts of ones culture they were raised in, things that are familiar or comforting on their own, and of which the belief system underlying it is irrelevant, and this is a terrible reason for anyone to believe anything. It's a form of social pressure.
In other words, all the article is saying is that for some, giving up those comforting cultural traditions is less important than their ACTUAL beliefs. For others, engaging in cognitive dissonance and intellectual dishonesty is worth it to keep the cultural aspects they like.
Many religious people want to keep identifying with cultural aspects of religion while not really believing a lot of it, or any of it, and certainly not wanting to be associated with their belief system's own plainly stated, nasty dogma.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)I'll be over here when you *choose* to become a believer.
And I'll be pondering the deep concepts of indoctrination, intellectual dishonesty and cognitive dissonance.
Sorry, but what is dogma is intractable religious intolerance, and you, my friend, are a prize winner in that area.
See you around the campfire.
MellowDem
(5,018 posts)but that's just another one of your ad homs, and irrelevant to the thread anyway. I would ask you to address my points about how belief is indeed a choice, whether a person identifies with the belief system culturally or not, but you never answer substantive points.
If you disagree with my opinion, actually address my opinion, rather than me. If you have an argument at all. Which I suspect you don't.