When religious beliefs become evil: 4 signs

[rug]

April 28th, 2013
06:00 AM ET
By John Blake, CNN

(CNN) – An angry outburst at a mosque. The posting of a suspicious YouTube video. A friendship with a shadowy imam.

Those were just some of the signs that Tamerlan Tsarnaev, accused of masterminding the Boston Marathon bombings, had adopted a virulent strain of Islam that led to the deaths of four people and injury of more than 260.

But how else can you tell that someone’s religious beliefs have crossed the line? The answer may not be as simple you think, according to scholars who study all brands of religious extremism. The line between good and evil religion is thin, they say, and it’s easy to make self-righteous assumptions.

“When it’s something we like, we say it’s commitment to an idea; when it’s something we don’t like, we say it’s blind obedience,” said Douglas Jacobsen, a theology professor at Messiah College in Pennsylvania.

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/28/when-religious-beliefs-becomes-evil-4-signs/

These are the author's four signs:

1. I know the truth, and you don’t.

2. Beware the charismatic leader.

3. The end is near.

4. The end justifies the means.

[gopiscrap]

1. Interesting

wouldn't hurt to have this posted at every faith community facility!!!

[rug]

2. Yeah. I've been looking at them and it seems to apply also to political groups.

[gopiscrap]

3. Good point...

[Jim__]

4. "The end justifies the means."

Does a good end ever justify a bad means? One example he gives in this section of the article is suicide bombers. Is suicide bombing always an immoral means? Suppose China took over the US and was using Americans as slave labor. If we had a resistance movement that engaged in suicide bombing, would we consider that an unjust means? Or, might we consider the suicide bombers heroes? How about regular old bombing from planes? Is suicide bombing bad, but bombing cities from planes OK?

If seems like we accept radical means, means that cause the death of large numbers of civilians, as long as the end is important - e.g. dropping atom bombs on cities in order to insure the continued survival of the US.

I can agree that if we accept that any means to reach some arbitrary end as justified, that's wrong. But, if the end is not arbitrary, if the end is considered extremely important, there are very few means that we would consider not justifiable. If that's true, we do accept that the end justifies the means; as long as it our end that's being justified.

[rug]

5. The cousin to that is the double effect.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/double-effect/

Crudely, the difference boils down to achieving an end "no matter what" versus acknowledging the harm caused by an act to achieve a good end.

It's a thin difference but I believe it's a valid one.

[Humanist_Activist]

6. Uhm...

1. I know the truth, and you don’t. Isn't this the claim of every religion?

2. Beware the charismatic leader. Jesus Christ?

3. The end is near. Didn't Jesus say his disciples won't taste death before he returned?

4. The end justifies the means. Didn't he get violent in removing the monechangers out of the temple? Told his apostles to leave their families to follow him, etc.

OK, so what conclusion can we draw from this?

[rug]

7. No. See the Dalai Lama.

He was so charismatic he was mocked, scourged and killed while people fled from him.

No, he said some will.

The only means is not violence. Inviting people to follow him is a poor example of ends justifying means.

We may draw the conclusion that cherry picking is poor argument.

[Humanist_Activist]

11. As far as I can tell, neither Buddhism nor the Dalai Lama are apocalyptic...

Jesus and Christianity are, also Jesus advocated that people abandon their families for him, classic cult like behavior. This is mentioned, repeatedly, in the Gospels. Or is this something else you will try to excuse away or ignore because it conflicts with your ego, ooops, I mean God.

[hrmjustin]

13. I always took it to mean God must be central in your life.

[Humanist_Activist]

16. That's one of many beliefs in Christianity and other religions that I find wrong...

People should be central to your life, your family, your friends, the rest of humanity.

[hrmjustin]

18. But if you read the gospels that was Jesus's message.

He was all about the people, particularly poor ones.

[Humanist_Activist]

21. Jesus was big on people following him, as only through him may you be saved...

lovely theology you got there, really bang up job in putting humans first. LOL

ON EDIT: Not to mention he is inconsistent on this point, but whatever, you are just looking forward to the time when Jesus comes back and puts us all under his heel.

[hrmjustin]

26. He claimed to be the Messiah.

He was sent by God to teach his children to love one another and God in my opinion.

[Humanist_Activist]

27. I'm puzzled by his want, and/or need for love from us...

that implies he's an imperfect being, an image of humanity, which, looking at the Bible, is what he seems to be. As far as teaching us to love each other, why do we need that lesson? Looking at the world, historically and today, it seems that the most religious of us are the ones with the most trouble with this part of your god's message, and the least religious have the least trouble with the whole loving one another thing.

[hrmjustin]

28. I doo not think we can say who loves their fellow human beings more.

As a Christian I believe Jesus is an imperfect being and the second person of the trinity. I believe Jesus gave us the way to live. Unfortunately I fall short of it.

[Humanist_Activist]

29. Wait a minute, Jesus is imperfect? Uhm, you just called him the second person in the Trinity...

which is, itself, a rather confusing concept. Frankly, I feel you Christians should really settle this, are you monotheistic or polytheistic, because it seems like you are halfway in-between.

How can any part of the Trinity be imperfect? If it is, it surely isn't worthy of worship or praise, in that case.

[hrmjustin]

30. We believe in one God in three divine persons.

Think of it as the different aspects of God. God amongst us here in the form of the Holy Spirit. God the Redeemer sent to save us. God the father as our creator.
Can God be imperfect to be honest I have questions about that as well.
What kind of state would perfect be. Sounds boring.

[Humanist_Activist]

34. All I can say is that, apparently between the Nicene Creed, and the Bible...

god(s) of Christianity can be whatever you want them/it/him to be.

[hrmjustin]

36. Well people have their beliefs.

[rug]

15. No, it seeks Nirvana.

Apocalypse means no more than revealing.

There is more cult-like behavior, including leaving one's family and killing, in the military than there is in religion.

Now, excuse me while I step over your ego. It fell right over there.

[Humanist_Activist]

17. Military is a specific type of organization that serves a specific purpose...

ideally defense, but just as likely offense.

Generally it relies on nationalism, another scourge that is definitely cult like, and another thing I oppose, I'm not even a patriot, I find it too cultish.

Whether there is more or less cult-like behavior in the military versus religion, well, for one, religion has a LOT more people than the military does, also, generally, the military doesn't encourage you to attack your own family or friends(I say generally). Can't say the same for Catholicism, which calls LGBT people intrinsically disordered, and encourages its members to try to discourage LGBT family and friends from having healthy relationships.

[rug]

19. You're taking that passgae and transforming it into "attack your own family".

That's not what it says.

[Humanist_Activist]

20. You can't say that your sect and other sects don't interpret it that way.

They get so hung up on not "encouraging sin" that they would rather harm other people to save their souls than treat them like proper human beings.

[rug]

22. Lol, oh so it's a sect now.

Your use of language becomes more imprecise as your exaggerations increase.

[Humanist_Activist]

23. I would say denomination, but Catholics get pissy about that one too, sometimes...

sect is a neutral word, could have used cult instead, would you like that?

[rug]

24. I prefer One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, preferably with incense.

[Humanist_Activist]

25. I figured. n/t

[AlbertCat]

8. They left out #5

The end of reason, to be replaced by ignorant superstitions made up by Stone Age people who didn't even know the Earth was not flat.

[rug]

9. I'll keep my eyes peeled for Stone Age cults.

Thanks for the warning.

[AlbertCat]

10. I'll keep my eyes peeled for Stone Age cults.

Anything involving a god (or the supernatural really) will do....

Shouldn't be too hard for an honest person to find.

[Warren Stupidity]

12. he's quibbling about the technological era of christianity.

The alleged jesus fellow was an iron age anthropomorphic deity updating a bronze age semi-monotheistic religion.

[AlbertCat]

14. he's quibbling about....

No... he's being his SUPER funny SUPER clever self. It's just SO AWESOME his wit.












(Plus you know he has to play "the last word" game)

[LostOne4Ever]

31. I have a simpler list

1. Whenever your beliefs force you to go against your conscience.

Thats it. Why make things more difficult than necessary?

[hrmjustin]

32. +1

[Rosifer]

33. Good game

Here are the four signs that tell you have a bad case of tuberculosis;

1: You cough and splutter uncontrollably

2: Medication has little or no effect

3: The doctors look grim

4: You die

Endless fun

[cbayer]

35. Welcome to DU.

BTW, TB is treatable.