Religion
Related: About this forumMost of those whose attitude toward Pope Francis is good will
are prepared to wish the Catholic Church and its new Pope the fondest hope for a meaningful pontificate.
We find it positive that Francis has begun his official duties with an affirmation that he intends to focus on the poor and marginalized. We await to see what that means.
There are cautions. He comes from Latin America which a generation ago produced Liberation Theology, whose main thrust was the statement, "God has a preferential option for the poor." These Latin American Bishops and teachers headed a continent-wide movement focused on changing the plight of the millions of nobodies, the landless and left out. They went beyond feeding the hungry and asked the question "Why are they hungry?" Their focus was first on charity and then on justice. They knew it was necessary to break the power of the landed oligarchy, the traditional church and the military which insured the continuation of injustice. It was a necessary social revolution.
What we know about Francis is that as Archbishop he was violently opposed to these liberationists and only meant by his support of the poor, traditional charity. That is his undistinguished history. We do not know if that preoccupation will be changed now that he is Pope. If it does not, we are in for little more than the perpetuation of injustice which will only keep the majority of Latin Americans in penury.
I will withhold judgment until his real purposes become clear.
okasha
(11,573 posts)I suspect he may quietly harbor some liberationist tendencies of his own. What he called for was that right wing bugbear, redistriburion of wealth. His vocabulary might not be Boff's and Gutierrez's, still less Hugo Chavez's, but that won't matter if he gets thr job done.
struggle4progress
(118,294 posts)The gospel is not free of all tension: it simultaneously asks us to be perfect, yet teaches us we will never be perfect; it tells us straight-forwardly to distribute all our wealth to the poor and warns that camels more easily pass through the eyes of needles than the rich find their way into the True Kingdom, but it also says that its actual demands and light and easy and that everything is possible
I see no simple-minded way to resolve such tensions between the preferential option for the poor and the universality of the church: failure to recognize this tension will only produce lop-sided dogma and lop-sided praxis
I very much like the liberation theologians, because they showed me I could read these old religious texts productively, without committing myself to a certain fundamentalist metaphysic, that I have always found alienating and abhorrent. And I probably don't share much of a common understanding of Christianity with anyone who regards the liberation theologians as mere trash-talkers. But it also seems to me inappropriate to dismiss everyone who fails to agree with various liberation theologians enthusiastically and entirely on every single point: whether we're right or wrong, we usually have some moral obligation to bear in mind the possibility that we may be wrong and that others with whom we disagree may be right; and not knowing exactly what Bergoglio say regarding liberation theology, it seems to be appropriate not to characterize it as "violent opposition"
Thats my opinion
(2,001 posts)The words came to me from a Latin American priest who followed first hand
Francis' relationship to the oligarchy which ran Argentina. My hope is that the awareness that a Pope stands in a very different place may result in a the alteration of a previous posture. So I reserve judgment and give him the benefit of the doubt.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)struggle4progress
(118,294 posts)"When something like this happens to a seminarian, I help him go in peace to be a good Christian and not a bad priest," Bergoglio said.
"In the Western Church to which I belong, priests cannot be married as in the Byzantine, Ukrainian, Russian or Greek Catholic Churches. In those Churches, the priests can be married, but the bishops have to be celibate. They are very good priests," he added ...
... "It is a matter of discipline, not of faith. It can change" ...
Pope Francis spoke of being 'dazzled' by girl, possible change of celibacy rule
By Tracy Connor, Staff Writer, NBC News
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)struggle4progress
(118,294 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Re-read your defense of the latest pope. He notes that celibacy isn't a matter of faith. Really? No shit. It is as the latest pope says, a matter of discipline. From that many of you have taken the huge leap to the conclusion that this pope is not a hugely conservative misogynist homophobe like all the others. Good luck with that.
struggle4progress
(118,294 posts)the "intellectual brilliance" of a young woman, and indeed finding the experience forced him to question his vocation; next he said he thought a married person could still be a good priest
It seems to me plausible that the current RCC demand for celibacy for most priests (excepting a few who migrate to the RCC from other traditions, after marriage) may allow or even encourage some misogyny, but that doesn't imply every priest is a misogynist. It also seems to me plausible that allowing priests to marry might change attitudes, since then priests would experience life with their wives and daughters, and I would expect that real misogynists would take a hard line against allowing priests to marry
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)that "intellectually brilliant" young woman could be a good priest? Will he EVER say that a woman of any kind can EVER be a priest in the RCC?
No.
Fortinbras Armstrong
(4,473 posts)That many of the Liberation Theologians became Marxists. For any political conservative -- such as Pope Francis -- that is enough to damn them.
struggle4progress
(118,294 posts)Or do we have only second- or third- or fourth-hand summaries of what he said?
Of course, as a Catholic priest, or provincial, or bishop, or archbishop, or pope, he is unlikely to endorse entirely any non-Catholic ideological view, most especially if the ideology requires commitment to atheism: in particular, dogmatic Marxism is unlikely to appeal to him. OTOH that is not the same as the "damn them" stance you suggest:
The Catholic Church is aware of the importance of furthering respect of friendship between men and women of different religious traditions, the Argentine pontiff told the religious leaders in an audience at the Vatican.
Speaking in Italian in the frescoed Sala Clementina, he said members of all religions and even nonbelievers had to recognize their joint responsibility to our world, to all of creation, which we have to love and protect.
We must do much for the good of the poorest, the weak and those who are suffering, to favor justice, promote reconciliation and build peace, the new pope said ...
Pope urges members of all faiths, nonbelievers to ally for justice
March 21, 2013 01:21 AM
By Philip Pullella
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I hope the Holy Ghost moves him to the progressive side of the church.