Prayer Panacea: Illinois Lawmaker Advocates For Official Worship, Religious Shrines In Public School

[Adsos Letter]

Source:
Wall of Separation
Dec 28, 2012
by Simon Brown
https://www.au.org/blogs/wall-of-separation/prayer-panacea-illinois-lawmaker-advocates-for-official-worship-religious

Illinois state Rep. La Shawn Ford (D-Chicago) made a surprising statement this week about a major change he would like to see in schools: more prayer.

Ford told a group of ministers: “I also urge the ministers here to fight to get prayer back in schools. That’s a mission that we need to do. We need to make sure that we get prayer back in schools in some form or fashion,” KMOX, the CBS radio affiliate in St. Louis, reported.
...
He says on his website that he believes “more strongly than ever in the concept of social justice,” and “that every member of society is deserving of equal economic, political and social rights.”

For someone who believes so strongly in social justice and equality, why is he willing to ignore the rights of a growing segment of our population, the non-believers, atheists and humanists -- as well as all of those religious people who oppose mandated and coercive prayer in public schools?
https://www.au.org/blogs/wall-of-separation/prayer-panacea-illinois-lawmaker-advocates-for-official-worship-religious

I wonder if this is an example of how the slippery slope manifests itself? In 2007 Rep. Ford co-sponsored The Silent Reflection and Student Prayer Act, a bill "requiring students to have a moment of silence at the beginning of each school day." The bill's author, state Sen. Kimberly Lightford, said she sponsored an amendment to make the Act involuntary rather than voluntary:

Lightford said she introduced the change because of the many social ills kids face today, such as school violence and bullying.

She added that kids could reflect on those ills, or on problems they're having at school or at home, or on their classes. She said teachers could use the moment to get their classes under control.
...
Lightford said the bill doesn't require students to say a prayer.

"The law doesn't require them to say anything. It allows that child to get focused on the day's activities," she said.
...
"I don't think this will solve or fix (every education problem), but if it saves a life, I think that's good thing," she said
http://www.riverforest.com/News/Articles/10-16-2007/Local-state-senator-led-'moment-of-silence'-effort/

Ford apparently agreed that there need not be a religious component to the exercise:

State Rep. LaShawn Ford (8th), a House co-sponsor of the bill, said he supported the measure because he believed students needed a time to reflect.

Ford called it "a neutral moment for all to do what they need to do."
http://www.riverforest.com/News/Articles/10-16-2007/Local-state-senator-led-'moment-of-silence'-effort/

The now infamous Gov. Blagojevich vetoed the bill, but the Senate overrode it. One of the senators who voted against the override had agreed with the voluntary version of the bill, but opposed the compulsory version:

State Sen. Don Harmon (39th), was one of nine senators who voted against overriding Blagojevich's veto. Harmon said Friday that when the bill was first introduced, he felt it was "reasonable."

"The reasons I heard originally were very secular," he said. "Kids need to collect themselves in the classroom prior to classes."

He soon became increasingly uncomfortable.

"On reflection it seemed more and more like a big step toward mandating school prayer," he said.
http://www.riverforest.com/News/Articles/10-16-2007/Local-state-senator-led-'moment-of-silence'-effort/

And, according to the Chicago Tribune:

In October (2010), a federal appeals court upheld the constitutionality of the Silent Reflection and Student Prayer Act, saying the measure did not specify that the silent time be spent in prayer.

Many school officials plan to heed the example recognized in the ruling by 7th Circuit Court of Appeals. Students paused for 15 seconds and then recited the Pledge of Allegiance before hearing the daily announcements.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-01-14/news/ct-met-moment-of-silence-0115-20110114_1_silent-reflection-mandatory-moment-regional-superintendent

I'm interested in the real life mechanics of the slippery slope, and I'd like to know if Ford's "neutral moment" of 2007 was an honest appraisal of the bill, or if he actually viewed it as a "big step" toward reintroducing mandated prayer in school. I know Chicago has some very serious problems, and I wonder if Ford's present stance regarding school prayer is one he has held for a long time, or if it has evolved as the problems of his constituency have grown and perhaps seemed more intractable.
I went to the KMOX website in hopes of finding either a link to the talk in which he expressed his opinion, or an archived broadcast, but no luck. I would like to see his verbatim comments in their original context.

NOTE: I realize Ford is under indictment for bank fraud but i don't think it has relevance to my question, or to his statements about school prayer.

If you've read this far you probably deserve a medal...or a stiff drink, at least.

Edit: replaced "positive step" with "big step"
replaced "probably" with "certainly"...as in,you certainly deserve a medal...

[bluestateguy]

1. You already have the right to pray in school

Pray before your big state-mandated standardized test, or before you ask the hot girl you like to prom; do as you wish; just don't involve the school in it.

[Adsos Letter]

3. I understand that, and I agree with you.

I'm just wondering if Ford's current remarks are a good example of the slippery slope in action, or if this is something he believed during the 2007 debate over the Act bill.

[okasha]

8. Exactly.

There is no way to stop someone who wants to pray in school, during the school day, as long as it's a silent, individual exercise. Conversely, there's no way to involve anyone who doesn't care to be involved.

This comes squarely under the First Amendment's prohibition on establishment.

[dballance]

2. Great. Then lets make sure we provide for Muslim prayer times at school too.

Okay, if you want to bring prayer into school lets make sure we do it right. We'll need to provide prayer rugs and a clear indication of where the East is for the afternoon prayers we need to make sure people pray in respect to Muslim traditions. I'm not really educated on Asian traditions so I can't speak to what we should do to honor them. But, of course we must do something. Buddha was a profit, not a god, so we'll have to work with that in that we probably shouldn't be praying to a profit.

Maybe we can read verses from the Koran and the Vedas in addition to that King James Version of the Bible. You know the KJV of the Bible. A text created in the 1600's. That would be 1600 years after the alleged existence of Jesus and his apostles. Not to mention the text was written from translations of the original Hebrew that was translated to Aramaic to Greek and then to 1600's English. I'm sure nothing was lost in translation and certainly no biases on the part of the translators would have entered into the equation. Simple translations like using "virgin" to describe a young woman wouldn't have happened.

[Adsos Letter]

4. I agree with you in opposing mandated prayer, or dedicated rooms/shrines. etc.

I'm actually more interested, in this instance, in whether or not this guy's current stance involves an evolution in his thinking, or whether he has held this attitude all along. If he held this attitude during the 2007 debate over the Act bill then he was lying at the time, and the slippery slope becomes intentional. If not, then it becomes...unintentionally progressive, in the non-political sense of "progressing by steps or degrees" but not necessarily by plan?

The issue of school prayer, and the larger issue of Church/State separation, are of signal importance to me; however, in this case I am more interested in how the slippery slope functions.


Edit: Striving for clarity...not really making it...

[cbayer]

6. I would hope that any school that was asked would accommodate a Muslim who

requested a space for prayers.

This is an entirely different issue, imo.

[dballance]

7. As my sainted mother used to say "Wish/hope" in one hand and crap in the other

and see which fills up first. I grew up in the South where it was still okay to use the n-word and people regularly described a financial negotiation as "Jewing someone down" on the price. The elections of late where a politician in TN who is a doctor and had inappropriate sexual relations with his patients but still got re-elected because he's such an extreme right wing nut have not led me to believe things have changed a lot.

I can see prayer time and facilities being provided for Muslims only after a civil rights case in court. And even then I'm not sure a Muslim would prevail. I can easily see the Southern courts invoking the 1st Amendment when they rule on cases by non-Christians.

[Angry Dragon]

11. Don't forget Satan ......... many pray to Satan

Zeus, Chaos, so many gods, so many religions

[cbayer]

5. Great job putting this together. Thanks.

It does indeed look like a very slippery slope. While the moment of silence makes sense, it is the leap to encouraging prayer that makes me uncomfortable.

Why can't they just leave it like it was?

[Adsos Letter]

9. Thanks, cbayer. It sort of came together by happenstance.

When I first looked at the AU story on Ford I was frustrated by a lack of broader context for his remarks. I'm generally interested in the why of various theocratic impulses, even though I often find them abhorrent, and threatening to individual liberty and human rights.

I was curious about Ford's motivation; did he appear to be simply pandering to an influential segment of his constituency, or did he believe that mandated school prayer was an essential element of a solution to social problems? Or something in-between? The man is a Democrat, and according to Project Vote Smart, has very good scores in their categories of Labor, Environmental Issues, Social Issues, and very low approval scores from the NRA. http://votesmart.org/candidate/evaluations/18379/la-shawn-ford#interpret He received rather mixed reviews on Civil Liberties and Civil Rights, so I was curious about his commitment to the issue of school prayer.

A Google search led me to his co-sponsorship of the 2007 Act bill. I would still be interested to know, in light of the slippery slope argument, if he would have supported mandated prayer over mandated moment of silence in 2007, or if that position developed over time. It speaks to the issue of intent.

[cbayer]

10. I think the audience he addressed his remarks to may have been critical here,

and would doubt that he would have said the same thing to a different group, as opposed to a group of black clergy.

So it's not clear, at least to me, that he is advocating mandated prayer. Perhaps just telling these ministers that they should encourage the kids in their congregations to use this moment of silence as a moment of prayer.