In honor of Mithras' birthday, "How Christianity Grew Out of Paganism" by Joseph McCabe:

[dimbear]

http://www.bastardarchive.org/books/McCabe-How_Christianity_Grew_Out_Of_Paganism-150dpi-read.pdf

Treat this one as a teaser. While it contains a great deal of truth, the scholarship is sometimes outdated or (truth to tell) erratic. McCabe was a polemicist at heart. This is worth the price at free, comparable modern books will set you back big bucks since the market for the like is minimal and debunking Christianity can be poisonous to academic careers.

[humblebum]

1. “No wonder they hated and libeled Russia!...

...For the news is spreading, and is triumphing even over reactionary opposition that Russia is doing the finest and soundest reconstructive work of our time, and it is doing this, not only without God, but on a basis of militant Atheism.”

'Is the Position of Atheism Growing Stronger?' By Joseph McCabe (1936)

[cleanhippie]

5. Do you EVER have anything else to say, or is ALWAYS just "MILITANT ATHEISTS"?

Seriously, dude. Its really gotten old. Even if you were 100% correct, no one here is buying it anymore. Why do you insist on spewing this over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over?

Please, for the love of the god you worship, just stop. Please.

[humblebum]

6. Kinda like your endless diatribes, huh? When the same claims are made over and over,

the same responses will be given over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over?

So if I were you I would settle in for the long haul.

[cleanhippie]

7. I figured as much. You don't.

Thanks for playing.

[humblebum]

8. Militant atheism - not my words but the words of a celebrated atheist.nt

[Phillip McCleod]

18. 'communism is good'

'christianity is stupid'

'give up
give up
give up'

-negativeland

[madaboutharry]

2. Very interesting, thank you for posting.

[okasha]

3. Dimbear, you should know better than t his.

Roman Mithraism postdates Christianity. In its actual central narrative, Mithras never rose because he never died. (It was the sacrificial bull who died; Mithras slew him.) The kindest thing that can be said of this pamphlet is that its research is sloppy. It's probably more accurate to say that it's just plain BS.

[dimbear]

4. McCabe is free and makes some good points. For those who care to spend the money,

a far better and more modern view is contained in the works of Ramsay MacMullen.

Roman Mithraism has practically nothing to do with Mithra, the Iranian hero/god. The first date for Mithraism in the Empire is uncertain, since it is likely the first Mithraea were temporary structures like those sometimes found near army camps. The busy folks who reimagined Mithra into Mithras to serve the empire did a job comparable to the busy folks who reimagined Yeshua into Jesus to serve the empire. It is very difficult to trace the steps in the development of either, especially in Mithraism because the Christians erased it very effectively.

You are right that McCabe is sloppy, just as I warned in the OP. His career is proof that it is better to write one good book than many not so good books. Luckily the interested reader can nowadays check anything that seems interesting with the net.

[okasha]

9. Here's a good website with further links:

www.religionfacts.com/greco-roman/sects/mithraism.htm

Misinformation is misinformation, whether it's cheap or expensive. The fact is that the narratives of Christianity and Mithraism are essentially different. Some key points:

Jesus is born of a human woman as an infant. Mithras springs from a rock full grown, holding a torch.
Jesus is a sacrificial victim. Mithras is the sacrificer of the bull.
Jesus undergoes death at the hands of the Romans. Mithras does not die.
Jesus rises after death. Mithras, not having died, does not.

Substantial archaeological evidence for Mithraism, in the form of inscriptions, becomes common only after 136 CE, well after after the composition of the Pauline writings (as well as the pseudo-Pauline) and the four canonical gospels. Their two points of contact are the celebratory meal, shared by a number of other relgions, and the adoption of of December 25th as a major feast. While the adoption of the date by the early church was opportunistic, December 25 is also exactly nine months after March 25, which was already assigned to the Annunciation/conception of Jesus when the church began to celebrate Christmas. The Church fathers, it seems, could count on their fingers quite as well as village gossips.

[dimbear]

10. I'm very willing to accept that substantial archaeological evidence shall be the standard

to judge priority. Substantial archaeological evidence for Christianity before 136 CE would be found where, exactly?

[Leontius]

11. Rome

[dimbear]

12. It's a big town. Lots of roads lead there. Can you be more specific? n/t

[rug]

13. Via delle Sette Chiese, 282 00147 Rome, Italy

You may call at [phone].

Catacombs of Domitilla.

http://www.domitilla.info/

[dimbear]

14. They assert that they are the earliest known Roman Christian catacomb and their earliest

inscriptions are simply described as 2nd century. In what way does that show they are previous to 136 CE?

Perhaps we ought to summarize the discussion so far. I claim Mithraism and Christianity both snatched up a popular date which was up for grabs and made use of it for their own separate purposes. McCabe claims IIRC that the Christians stole the date of Christmas from the Mithraeans, a concept that is defensible but not now popular. Okasha claimed that literary evidence shows Christianity predates Roman Mithraism because Roman Mithraism only has substantially many inscriptions after 136 CE.

If one could rely at all on literary evidence, we would immediately push Mithraism back into the first century BCE at least, so let's stick with the shovels and brooms. I agree to that. Substantial pre 136 CE Christian archaeological evidence.

[rug]

15. There's a 36% chance.

Is 136 a magic number?

[dimbear]

16. Um, right. When the custodians of antiquities put so much value on priority,

it's just a random guess which end of the century that would suggest.

[rug]

17. I don't know that they considered 136 critical. You did.