When ‘God’s will,’ rape and pregnancy collide

[cbayer]

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/25/when-gods-will-rape-and-pregnancy-collide/comment-page-25/

October 25th, 2012
06:00 AM ET
When ‘God’s will,’ rape and pregnancy collide
By Wayne Drash, CNN

(CNN) - The pregnant 12-year-old girl was strung out on heroin and looked like a walking skeleton when she arrived at the hospital. The conversation that followed, said Phoenix police chaplain John South, has stuck with him ever since.

“Do you know who the father is?” South recalled asking her.

“She said, ‘Yes, it’s my biological father. He’s the one who hooked me on heroin so he could continue to rape me whenever he wanted to.’ ”

The Protestant chaplain has consoled about 50 pregnant rape victims - typically girls raped by their fathers - in his years working with the Phoenix Police Department.

more at link, including video of Mourdock's statement

[libodem]

1. Does the bio dad get a medal

For doing God's work? Wasn't God, Mary's Father, too? And just who did Cain and Able marry? This is all very incestous.

[okasha]

2. Obviiously you didn't read the article.

Only one idiot Republican claims that the rape might have been "God's will." None of the clergy quoted in the piece endorsed his view or criticized the girl's choice to have an abortion, focusing instead on the horrific nature of her experience.

And no, Yahweh was not Mary's biological father. (Nor Jesus' either, come to that.)

[libodem]

5. So God was everone's heavenly Father

But Mary? Was not God, Jesus's father? Sounds like incest to me.

[okasha]

7. "Heavenly father" does not equate to "biological father."

Are you acquainted with anyone who claims biological divine paternity? Perhaps that's what Obama's trying to conceal on his allegedly "missing" birth certificate? (That's sarcasm, by the way. Just in case you can't tell the difference there, either.)

My favorite along this line was some medieval fellow who claimed to be "God's nephew." I never have figured out exactly how that would work.

[libodem]

9. Check out the Mormon religion

God is literal to them. He literally fathered Jesus. I don't think they are the only ones who believe Christ was the literal son of God.

[okasha]

14. Yes, I'm aware that Mormons and fundamentalists

believe that Jesus was literally "begotten by the Father" without sexual intercourse by means of the Holy Spirit. It does not follow from that they believe that anyone else was "begotten by the Father." Quite the contrary. Your equation of biological father and "Heavenly Father" is still erroneous.

[trotsky]

6. There has been more than just "one idiot Republican" parroting this nonsense.

Several candidates (some of whom look like they're going to win their race) have voiced the same sentiment. So clearly such a belief isn't enough to turn off large numbers of voters, meaning it's shared by more than a tiny slice of them. Including some pastors and priests, no doubt.

[okasha]

8. Allow me to clarify.

Only one idiot Republican is cited in the article. Unfortunately, there is more than one idiot Republican.

[Laochtine]

11. Did God ask Mary?

Was she willing, not answered in the Bible as far as I can tell

[cbayer]

13. 'Mother Mary Was Essentially Raped,' Mourdock Says (Onion)

http://www.theonion.com/articles/mother-mary-was-essentially-raped-mourdock-says-wh,30083/

[okasha]

15. Check out the story in Luke.

Yes. In the the Biblical narrative in Luke, she says, "Be it done unto me according to thy word."

[trotsky]

16. Yes, let's check out that story, and not just your cherry-picked quote.

Luke 1:26-38

26 In the sixth month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, 27 to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. 28 The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.”

29 Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30 But the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary; you have found favor with God. 31 You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.”

34 “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?”

35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[a] the Son of God. 36 Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be unable to conceive is in her sixth month. 37 For no word from God will ever fail.”

38 “I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May your word to me be fulfilled.” Then the angel left her.

"You will conceive..." The angel is basically informing Mary of things that god has decided are going to happen. Yes, Mary "accepted" this but let's not pretend this was proposed to her as an offer she could refuse, mmkay?

[okasha]

24. Of course she could have refused it.

She asked a reasonable question, and received an answer properly couched in the future tense. There are stories throughout the entire Bible of persons who refused offers from Yahweh.

Let's not pretend this was a "rape" or a matter of force, mmkay?

And let's not pretend, on a level of history rather than mythos, that there would have been many, if any, devout young women in Roman-occupied Palestine who would have been unwilling to be the mother of the King-Messiah.

[trotsky]

25. "You WILL conceive"

And you think she could have refused. Sure thing. I guess because you say so! There, done! You're a riot, okasha.

Oh well, it's all just a made up story anyway. Might as well twist it to suit your own agenda.

[okasha]

26. Somehow I figured you

would (past tense of will) attempt a witty comeback to the facts of Greek grammar. And yet you had a choice whether or not to do so, including a choice of whether or not to fall back on your standard tactic of attempted personal insult. No coercion at all involved.

You have a good day, now.

[trotsky]

27. And somehow I figured you would try to pull a how-it-could-have-been scenario out of nowhere,

just as you did. And since when is telling someone they're funny a "personal insult"? It's a compliment! I enjoy the many laughs you've provided me.

I'm having a great day - hope you do too!

[thelordofhell]

3. Todd Man Out

[cbayer]

4. Hilarious. I am not familiar with this guy (and don't get much TV), but I like him.

Thanks!

[dmallind]

10. Consistency is vital

If a person accepts a god who intervenes in human life and who both knows of, and can control, earthly events, then it is irrational at best and outright blasphemous mendacity at worst to pretend that he only has that power in benign cases.

If a god can save a trapped miner from death, he can save a captive minor from rape and torture. That he chooses to do one and not the other tells us of that god's choices and priorities. There is no plausible way to imagine he is only capable of the former and not the latter.

Now it may be retorted that it's wrong to believe this, but the only alternative beyond the absurdity of a god who can prevent millions of tons of rock from falling but cannot prevent a rapist's wedding tackle from rising is that there is either by divine policy or divine limits or divine absence no intervention in human events at all.

[cbayer]

12. I know they are out there, but I don't know a single person who believes that god

controls all earthly events. And I have never seen anyone here post anything remotely close to that.

So, I guess I am not sure who you are directing this to.

[trotsky]

17. But yet there are people interviewed on TV every day...

who give thanks to their god that they and their family were spared by a tornado, or in a car crash, or some such event.

I guess you don't know many people.

[beam me up scottie]

18. God is only responsible for the good things that happen.

Everything else is the work of the Devil and/or non-christians.

[cbayer]

19. I know that there are those that believe that, but it's hard to

stay consistent on that point.

Interestingly, while so many in this country believe in a god, the majority of christians apparently do not believe in Satan.

http://in.christiantoday.com/articles/most-us-christians-don-believe-satan-holy-spirit-exist/3704.htm

[beam me up scottie]

20. Christians believe what they're told to believe.

Critical thinking is not exactly encouraged in Bible school.

From your survey:

But a large majority of American Christians agree that a person must choose to side with either good or evil. More than six out of ten American Christians strongly agreed (61 percent) with the idea that a person must either side with God or with the devil - that there is no in-between position. Another 15 percent somewhat agreed.

[cbayer]

21. This is not necessarily true.

I grew up in a church where this wasn't the case at all. Critical thinking was not only embraced, it was expected.

The Jesuits also have a long tradition of encouraging critical thinking and are probably the most progressive of the Catholic orders.

So, while you are right about some, one can't really broadbrush this to all christians.

The question about choosing sides between god and the devil seems rather silly, particularly in light of the other piece of data they present that indicates that most don't even believe in the devil, but see it as a concept for evil. So, the question really seems to come down to choosing between good and evil, which pertains to everyone, imo, believer or not.

[beam me up scottie]

22. "the question really seems to come down to choosing between good and evil"

No, it doesn't, but your statement does make it easy to see why christians believe they're morally superior, too bad life isn't a comic book.

[cbayer]

23. Good and evil aren't religious concepts, and all, believers and non-believers,

are sometimes confronted with making decisions between the two. People may label them differently, but it's the moral/ethical decisions that face most, if not all, people.

I don't know what you mean about christians feeling morally superior and life not being a comic book or how you got that from my post.