Religion
Related: About this forumI haven't posted or replied for a while.
For the next weeks my attention is rivited in doing what I can to avert a tragedy.
What is at stake? The right of gays to marry. The Justices to be selected in the coming years.The protection of the environment, Social Security, Medicare and Medicare-- and a couple dozen other things. That is where all my time and energy is going. The substance of my religion demands that I put these issues first. You may have other motives. This is mine. Several thousand a week read my column. Whether they make any difference I cannot judge. But I will do what I can. If you care to read what I write, here is my column for next week.
POLITICAL IMPLICATIONS IN THIS ELECTION WHICH WILL AFFECT OUR GREAT-GRANDCHILDREN. (10/24)
For a month I have been suggesting the kind of nation and world we want for our great-grandchildren. In the first two columns I suggested a sustainable environment, and a safe peaceful international community. The next column summarized responses to my original question. Then there surfaced the notion that a generative society is one in which there are communities of people who have each others backs.
These issues are not just polite matters of discussion. They reveal what a living community might envision as its fundamental goals. Here lie political implications critically important in the coming election. The questions can be clearly put. What kind of social order do we want in the United States, and how will the results of the election make a difference? Will the effect of global warning, which threatens the survival of the planet, be a major concern? Will we live in a less dangerous world, or will the reinstigation of a deadly nuclear arms race dominate both nations and their economies? Will universal health care become a more likely outcome? Will the current trickle-down economic philosophy yield to a more utilitarian perspectivewhat is the greatest good for the greatest number? Will we increasingly become safe-guarders of our brothers and our sisters?
The core issue is whether we are increasingly a society whose major focus is a persistent individualism in which the economic struggle to the top dwarfs all other social postures, or a social order in which we are all in this together as we seek the common good? Is American society destined to revert to no more than a collection of entrepreneurs who may occupy the same space as the rest of us, but are only committed to the self? Or are we a band of common partners protecting each others backs?
Perhaps we must dig through all the political rhetoric, the clever 30 second ads, the hundreds of millions poured into negative depictions, the stump speeches and debate performances to discover how our votes will influence the direction the nation will take.
When you sift through all the rhetoric, it is increasingly clear that if the Republican candidates do not use Ayn Rands point of view as a textbook, they and their party are committed to the substance of her philosophy. No better example can be found than Mitt Romneys leadership of Bain Capital. These equity firms have one simple objective. It is not to create jobs. It is to find ways for the very rich to become even richer. It is also clear that tax cuts for the super rich are not geared to encourage small businessmen and women to hire more workers, but to facilitate the gushing up of Americas wealth. The pledge to do away with Obamacare is not based on a concern for the national deficit, but on a clear objection to anything approaching universal health insurance. The plan to turn Medicare into a voucher system is not to improve coverage, but to throw millions of people who will hit retirement in ten years to the wolves of the stock-market and the voracious appetites of the insurance industry. Gutting Medicaid, and seriously reducing funds for research and development are not proposed to save money, but to inhibit the government from moving the nation ahead. Telling students who need education loans to get them from their parents, is just cruel.
Those who hold that this election will decide the direction of the nation for decades to come are not just throwing out another political slogan. They are rather pointing to a crossroads in the nations journey.
While many have strong objections to some of Obamas policiesthe drone war for instancegiving in to the temptation to sit this one out is irresponsible. Not to vote is to vote without considering the alternative! All politics and politicians are flawed. But the best hope for America is the continuation of a society in which we have each others backs.
Charles Bayer
candwbayer@verizon.net
Sewew you when the election is over.
rug
(82,333 posts)I'm in PA and the phone calls are just starting to come in. OFA called and asked if I knew who I was voting for. When I said yes, I was asked if I wanted to volunteer with phone banks or canvassing. It looks like GOTV is a big priority right now.
Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)Cha
(297,795 posts)Good Luck to all of us!
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)Why? Just because the person who posted it is unabashedly religious, and throws the word "religion" into the first paragraph?
This is fine for GD, but will the mods please tell me why it belongs here?
Dorian Gray
(13,503 posts)because he posts all his articles here. Group hosts and others should make that ultimate decision, however.
But it should be cross posted in GD. It's an interesting read in regard to the upcoming election.
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)also be allowed in this group, as long as the person posting them does most of their other posting here? Charles knows perfectly well how to find GD and to post there. That's why we HAVE different subject groups and forums in the first place.
Dorian Gray
(13,503 posts)I guess it's up to the hosts or whomever else. Can you alert on it? Or email a host and ask?
trotsky
(49,533 posts)I'm somewhat relieved that the religious bigotry he wears on his sleeve is confined to this group, but at the same time, it would be nice to see more people exposed to the special kind of distrust and hatred he harbors. Problem is, he cloaks it in the language of liberal religion - despite repeating the same lies against non-believers that Pat Robertson and that crowd do.
edhopper
(33,639 posts)he's rolling"
DavidL
(384 posts)Romney, both in church and all week. Perhaps because an American iconic father figure of Christian Protestantism just made headlines meeting with Romney and endorsing him.
Maybe the OP thought all this Christian politicking in the last few months on behalf of Romney would be offset if he posted his support of Obama on the religious forum of the DU, in case any of the Christian faithful were wondering who to vote for.
rrneck
(17,671 posts)trotsky
(49,533 posts)I'm motivated by my desire to secure equal rights for my fellow human beings. I would hope everyone can eventually reach that point, when we do good things because they are the right thing to do, not because we think some god wants us to do them.
2ndAmForComputers
(3,527 posts)Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)mr blur
(7,753 posts)How is the air up there? Heady stuff, it would seem.
What a strange, insular little world you appear to live in, with your " Several thousand" followers.
onager
(9,356 posts)So perfect....
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Good job. Keep it that way.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)of you who have your boots on the ground that will make it happen.
It's easy to throw stones, but much harder to move them purposefully. Ignore the keyboard warriors.
rug
(82,333 posts)I hope they don't break out the cyber nunchuks.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)and stops making them, he'll find he gets a much warmer reception and you won't need to launch endless passive-aggressive attacks against those people you don't like.
But he's steadfastly refused to do either, and continues to promote the superiority of religious belief, so why do you think he gets the reaction he does? You wouldn't accept someone doing the reverse, so again what's with the double standard?
Your silence will be taken as an admission of a blatant and intentional double standard, and a thus a complete negation of your moral authority on this issue.
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Maybe one day she and her father wil learn what it is.
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)trotsky
(49,533 posts)But at least everyone else can observe it.
pinto
(106,886 posts)Statement of Purpose
Discuss religious and theological issues. All relevant topics are permitted. Believers, non-believers, and everyone in-between are welcome.
****************
I don't see personal vendettas mentioned in the SOP. I really wish this personal sniping would be laid aside in favor of discussion of the issues cited in the SOP. We can all agree to disagree in the course of things. Yet taking disagreement to this personal level sucks, imo.
Discuss religious and theological issues. All relevant topics are permitted. Believers, non-believers, and everyone in-between are welcome.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Just ask any atheist who has the guts to come out in this god-soaked culture.
Some of us can figure out what's right and wrong without consulting a book and master, and some of us actually manage to do the right thing without the stick and carrot.
rug
(82,333 posts)Maybe your coming out "in this god-soaked culture" has colored what you're reading.
His finding value in religion is not at the expense of you finding whatever you consider of value outside of religion.
BTW, welcome back.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Your religion is shoved down my throat on a daily basis, just because you're not the one doing the shoving doesn't mean it's not true.
Thank you for the welcome, it's good to be here.
rug
(82,333 posts)It is synonymous with someone so fucked up somebody had to be nailed to timber to save his sorry ass. Some get it. Some don't.
In any event, I don't let anybody shove anything doen my throat, daily, weekly or monthly. Annually perhaps.
You're welcome.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Here's the first one I found after googling:
1
a : of or relating to Christianity <Christian scriptures>
b : based on or conforming with Christianity <Christian ethics>
2
a : of, relating to, or being a Christian <Christian responsibilities>
b : professing Christianity <a Christian affirmation> <a Christian country>
3
: commendably decent or generous <has a very Christian concern for others>
Chris·tian·ly adjective or adverb
See Christian defined for English-language learners »
Examples of CHRISTIAN
Many of my friends are Christian.
He showed a very Christian concern for others.
I'm thrilled you don't live in a place where the moral majority is allowed to proselytize at will.
Where I live people fire bomb mosques and justify it by claiming that this is a christian country.
Have you ever been told that during the daily prayer meeting your coworkers "prayed" for you?
People like me don't belong here, we're barely tolerated and only as long as we sit down and shut up.
rug
(82,333 posts)I live in a county where all local government is controlled by the republican party.
Where I live people launch predator drones into villages 7,000 miles away in the name of my country.
I won't work in a place that has daily prayer meetings.
Don't wear a shirt someone else made for you.
I know what you're saying but maybe you should say it when it's happening. Those people will never read this.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)FYI, I'm no coward, I did come out at work, that's why they prayed for me. It's also why I don't work there anymore.
You're part of the religious majority, even if you stand up to the republicans no one will ever tell you that you don't belong here.
rug
(82,333 posts)I should tell you sometime about when the Sheriff arrested my wife shortly after I moved here, coincidentally after I did something in court they didn't like.
There are two things I've learned:
One, my woe is not necessarily another's. There is plenty of shit to go around and one piece tastes no better than another;
Two, I don't project my own experiences on others and place them in one camp or another unless I know them and know what the hell I'm talking about.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)This is the Religion forum, forgive me for staying on topic.
rug
(82,333 posts)Do you think you have a monopoly?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)You're part of it, I'm not.
rug
(82,333 posts)You're not unique.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)You made this personal, not me.
rug
(82,333 posts)Was it I who said. "Your religion is shoved down my throat on a daily basis"?. Was it I who said, "You're part of the religious majority"? Was it I who said, "The religious majority. You're part of it, I'm not"?
Who is making this personal?
Who is making the topic majority oppression?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Your religion, your fellow christians, their actions and their goals.
It is personal for their victims.
rug
(82,333 posts)I'm glad you acknowledged you made it personal. Would've have saved us time had you not instead accused me of doing it.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)My statement was about ME. It had nothing to do with you, I never accused you of being complicit but the way you jump to the defense of religion makes me wonder.
Maybe you could save yourself some time and allow other people to post their opinions in this forum without taking it personally.
rug
(82,333 posts)You however do.
Maybe you could save yourself some time and allow yourself to post your opinions in this forum without taking it personally.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)That's the fucking point.
I don't need your permission.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)and demand an apology. If you want to call that a "personal vendetta," fine. Do you want people to just sit back and take it? How much religious bigotry should we tolerate before it's OK to speak out?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)And the substance of that same religion demands fellow christians do the opposite.
Is this where I'm supposed to applaud?