New ARIS study about Unitarian Universalist demographics.

[E_Pluribus_Unitarian]

Seems to underscore a shift that's taking place within UU, geographically, demographically, and belief-wise. UU's (as of 2008) consider themselves more secular than religious, but even views of "God" are becoming more naturalistic...

http://commons.trincoll.edu/aris/files/2012/05/unitarians9008.pdf

[cbayer]

1. Interesting data, but I don't see how you reach the conclusions you do.

From my reading, there is only one data point for secular/religious, so no trend can be identified. That data point shows 58% secular/somewhat secular, 42% religious/somewhat religious/a little of both. In addition, 72% of UUA's said they believed in god. Again, there is only one data point, so no trending can be seen. The statistics do show that the UUA believers in god are less likely to believe that god can perform miracles or directly help them.

I would predict that the UU will see an influx of the *nones* - those with religious or spiritual beliefs but no religious affiliation. With that should come even more diversity.

Thanks for bringing this.

[grasswire]

2. I wonder if the trend toward Unitarians being people who ...

.....were actively rejecting their Christian upbringing has changed. The congregations I have observed were full of those. It spilled to their children, who were as hostile to mainstream Christianity as the parents.

[cbayer]

3. Was it mainstream christianity they were hostile towards or fundamentalist christianity?

I only attended for a short while, but my experience was that it was full of people who wanted some religious/spiritual experience, but not the dogma or rituals confined to a single religious group.

[grasswire]

5. I would say (from what I have seen) that it is...

....hostility toward any faith group that believes in the divinity of Jesus.

One example came when I read the essays of those pre-teens who were moving up in their Unitarian religious education and writing expressions of their faith. The repudiation of other faiths that believe in the divinity of Christ was clearly established in their hearts and minds.

Perhaps the congregations I've seen were particularly of that mind-set.

I know an elder man who lived with his daughter and grandchildren who never said grace at the family table (although the Unitarian family members did) because his more traditional faith tradition would have been scoffed at. (Such as beginning the prayer with "our heavenly father" and ending with "in Jesus name, amen)

I also know the son of a Unitarian minister (he's now a young man) who went out of his way at the county fair to step up to a booth where Christians were offering literature and try to bait them into arguments where he could point out their lack of logic. It was a sport.

I doubt he would have done that to Buddhists.

[cbayer]

6. Interesting. I found the members of the UU church I attended to be exceptionally

tolerant and inclusive, as long as others were. They would rotate different kinds of services, including traditional christian ones. Everyone seemed to enjoy that, no matter where they had come from.

Not letting a christian say grace because of some of the language he may use seems particularly intolerant to me. So does baiting religious people for sport. But I suppose there are all flavors of UU's, just as there are of other kinds of groups.

[grasswire]

7. sure. agreed. n/t

[JustAnotherGen]

4. I was a participant

<blockquote>What was their religious preference before they identified with the UUA?
Around one-fourth had originally been Mainline Christians (such as Methodist, Episcopalian, Presbyterian, UCC); about one-in-five were ex-Catholics; about one-in-five had been Baptist; and about one-in-ten were formerly „atheist‟ or „None‟ or another religious groups. These findings are only suggestive and based on a very small number of respondents so they would benefit from verification in a follow up with a larger sample of switchers.</blockquote>

And the Baptist jump was pretty large from 2000 to 2005. . .


In terms of becoming a Church of No Belief in God - I think it will cause a break. Maybe a rising of strictly Unitarian church and then a UU Church?


My jump to UU had to do with the fact that I no longer believed (treading carefully so as not to offend Christians) that Yeshua was a human being, his parents were both human beings, and he 'fit' the mold of a chosen one . . . On Par with Moses - but not a supernatural creature. I also have zero belief in a devil. That doesn't make sense - I tend to believe it's something 'men' made up to keep the curious and inquisitive in their place.

I couldn't believe any of those things (and there are others) and call myself a Christian. I'm a U because I have a belief in a Spirit. One spirit arrived at in many different ways.

[grasswire]

8. schism?

You wrote: "In terms of becoming a Church of No Belief in God - I think it will cause a break. Maybe a rising of strictly Unitarian church and then a UU Church?"

I know there has been some talk about a branch of the denomination splitting away to form a tradition with a God theology. There are two UUA ministers in my extended family -- I occasionally catch tidbits of trends.

[rug]

9. That's an interesting prospect.

From what I gather, classic unitarianism was a reaction to classic trintarianism, although each remained steeped in Christian tradition, differing primarily on the nature of Jesus.

Now, it appears to be completely dogma-free, permitting any member to believe, or not believe, as his or her conscience dictates. In any event, it's moved far beyond unitarianism, not to mention universalism.

I don't know if a schism is in the works but a reidentification and a renaming is apt.

[JustAnotherGen]

11. You are correct

But I think that a schism is possible.

A friend left a UU Church in TN because they did nothing for Christmas. It's not the date - it's the tradition of acknowledging this great Human Being (most UU's I know that are 'mainline' believe as I do - an spring time birth date).

But they then turned around and did a big brouhaha for Easter.

Again- mainline - I don't believe in the resurrection elements that allow for a Trinitarian God. He died - not at the hands of the Jews - but of the Romans. But his POLITICS lived on. They were originally skewered in the 4th century.

So the Arian concept of One God has withstood one schism - it can withstand another.

It went to the Coptics, then the Romans, then the Orthodox then the Protestants and you can even throw Mormonism in there. I would bet if it was going to re 'form' perhaps a Reform Unitarian Universalist church and the UU church of old continues on? UU wasn't something that was created out of thin air in the 18th century. It's almost 'occult' through the years - if you look at the word 'occult' as simply meaning 'hidden'.

[grasswire]

12. It is interesting to me that churches that repudiate the divine Jesus..

....will still have Christmas pageants featuring the whole shebang: baby Jesus, Mary, Joseph, angels, shepherds, etc.

[JustAnotherGen]

13. Mine doesn't

Two years ago I did the Christmas Light story with our children and a few other adult members. Many UU Congregations do a variation of it.

It's a telling of the inspiration for A Christmas Carol. Me in a cloak and a top hat with a gas lantern in a candle lit church. Street urchins, debtors, and a closing reminder that on this Christmas Eve - every single child/person has inherent value the moment they are born. And those who have material wealth ought to spend a bit of time remembering their own pasts that caused their wealth accumulation - and to take a moment to check the level of their heart space wealth.


The two times I have seen a traditional Christmas pageant in a UU Church there is a focus on the poverty Yeshua was born into, and a reminder that you can be born from the last and the least - but as a human being you can bring justice others - regardless of a humble beginning. Conversely - you can be born to wealth and bring absolutely nothing of value to this earth.

I know very few Unitarians that are actively involved in their church and its' social justice missions that care about an after life. We tend to concern ourselves with this earth and this life only. IF human beings are TRULY made in the image of God - then the kingdom of heaven that Christians strive to get into is right at hand. It's the elderly woman in Western NY heating her home with a gas stove in winter. It's the child in India that lives in a tin house. It's the man in Haiti who lost what little he had a few years ago, that is now dying from AIDS. It's the gay teenager who is tortured by their classmates for simple being born as they are.



Most liberals and progressives can hear that "gospel" - especially Atheists. Which leads to another thread I've been hearing in a variety of Church Circles/ Groups the past few years. The universe bless the atheists! They keep us Spirit/God people in line. They remind us we are human beings capable of creating miracles through intellect and human ingenuity.

Christmas is about Human Beings. Hence why we celebrate it - albeit differently than our Christian counterparts. Now Passover? Yeah! We go to town at Passover! More out of respect for the man whose words we follow (we don't adhere to anything Papal in nature - only the words of Yeshua/ JC in the New Testament - but all of the fables in the Old Testament). It honors him, his mother, and his human father.

[JustAnotherGen]

10. Exactly

Those who believe Arius should have won at the council of Nicea - and those who want to depart from the traditional concept of one indivisible God. The next step would a 'meeting group' of those who don't believe in God.

I've worked snce 2004 with peoplewho are the leaving B.A.C/Baptist faith systems due to the crisis of 'belief' in the supernatural that I had. I.E. This member (justanother) can meet with you and answer questions. It also helps that I was a Sunday school teacher in the Baptist Church in my 20's, and attended Catholic High School and U. I KNOW the scripture.

More often than not - I scare them away because all three UU Congregations I have belonged to are driven by Arianism. For an atheist who never has been a believer that is flying by and reading this - the idea of giving up the trinity can be a very 'jarring' thing for many Christians. And then I share - hey - in Somerville - we aren't Christians. We don't identify as that - because of XYZ. We DO have belief in the Judeo-concept of God.

If UU said as rule - no one is allowed to believe in God . . . I'd leave. I'd connect with other Unitarians and call my club the Defiant Arians!